Will Entitlement kill competition BBQ?

DMDon said:

It would be tough to find teams willing to invest the time and money and give up any competitive advantage they feel they have with using their own meat. And if a contest is not drawing these teams, its probably going to have a tough time generating sponsorship and public appeal.

Click to expand...

95% of the public does not care what teams show up at a contest, only that there are bands to listen to, things to do, stuff to eat and pretty pits to look at. Sponsors giving $$$ care about butts in seats, eyes that see their names, not which of us teams are cooking.

The general public comes to a contest for entertainment, and food. The organizer gets sponsorship $$$ because of spectator attendance and number of teams competing. In 90% of contests it doesn't matter if they were the top 40 teams or 40 brand new teams, the team renown does not draw in spectators.

I wish it were different but its not. We teams are mere cogs in a wheel...just like spectators, sponsors, judges, reps, and organizers. We all need each other to function.

:becky::becky: We teams have the biggest big cog though. :becky::becky:

TooSaucedToPork said:

95% of the public does not care what teams show up at a contest, only that there are bands to listen to, things to do, stuff to eat and pretty pits to look at. Sponsors giving $$$ care about butts in seats, eyes that see their names, not which of us teams are cooking.

The general public comes to a contest for entertainment, and food. The organizer gets sponsorship $$$ because of spectator attendance and number of teams competing. In 90% of contests it doesn't matter if they were the top 40 teams or 40 brand new teams, the team renown does not draw in spectators.

I wish it were different but its not. We teams are mere cogs in a wheel...just like spectators, sponsors, judges, reps, and organizers. We all need each other to function.

:becky::becky: We teams have the biggest big cog though. :becky::becky:

Click to expand...

Your right. The way I worded that, makes me sound like a pompous arse. I didn't mean to infer that that a contest needs the big boys to be successful. I am thinking years 2+. All things being equal to a regular contest, removing the teams that won't consider the contest, because they can't use their own meat, will impact the number of teams entering. Now it's more of a challenge to find 25 teams, where this contest fits into their plans. Lack of overall teams, tends to imply an event is struggling, now is the vicious snowball effect. Less sponsorship interest, less disposable income for bands and entertainment, less attendance, less desired able for food venders, less purse, more teams rule out contest, you get the point. I understand this is speculation and can be overcome, but would the trade off of teams who would not consider the contest be offset by teams willing to invest the money to cook a product they had no choice in? My opinion leans toward might work short term, but would have a tough go long term. Please discuss. I don't consider Boondoggle to be big time, but do think we qualify as experienced. That probably puts us close to the middle of the range of teams and its not likely we would chose to cook a contest like this.

TooSaucedToPork said:

95% of the public does not care what teams show up at a contest, only that there are bands to listen to, things to do, stuff to eat and pretty pits to look at. Sponsors giving $$$ care about butts in seats, eyes that see their names, not which of us teams are cooking.

The general public comes to a contest for entertainment, and food. The organizer gets sponsorship $$$ because of spectator attendance and number of teams competing. In 90% of contests it doesn't matter if they were the top 40 teams or 40 brand new teams, the team renown does not draw in spectators.

I wish it were different but its not. We teams are mere cogs in a wheel...just like spectators, sponsors, judges, reps, and organizers. We all need each other to function.

:becky::becky: We teams have the biggest big cog though. :becky::becky:

Click to expand...

With a few notable exceptions, Such as Mr Trigg

ThomEmery said:

With a few notable exceptions, Such as Mr Trigg

Click to expand...

You make a great point.. there's only a handful of superstars that spectators who are mesmerized by BBQ Pitmasters, that they'd go to a contest just to seek these celebrities out, and meet and greet.

Are you suggesting that if I get this autographed at K.O.S. this year, I won't be able to sell it on ebay and retire?

DUBBAGA said:

Are you suggesting that if I get this autographed at K.O.S. this year, I won't be able to sell it on ebay and retire?

Click to expand...

You won't get it autographed at KOS this year because I will not be invited back .. But Pork chop and I are always very busy signing autographs at BBQ contests!!

Podge said:

You make a great point.. there's only a handful of superstars that spectators who are mesmerized by BBQ Pitmasters, that they'd go to a contest just to seek these celebrities out, and meet and greet.

Click to expand...

Yes indeed

I'm having a hard time remembering when BBQ cookoffs were cheap. There have always been local contests with low entries and payouts around KC but the rest of us have always had to travel and help carry the budget with our entry fees. I've been doing KCBS since 1991 and I can't remember entry fees under about $150. Even back then I bought a $4k Jedmaster and a $25K van to do this and a lot of other equipment. I drove 8+ hours because there was only one contest in the Chicago area and I stayed at hotels and I bought the best meat I could get and I actually experimented with good meat and my own homemade rubs and sauces. Not cheap at all. Gas was a quarter and milk was a nickel back then too. This has never been a poor man's hobby.
As for the demise, well that gets floated around here pretty often but the numbers just keep growing for teams, judges and contests and the evil prize money.

ThomEmery said:

Yes indeed

Click to expand...

Something tells me Johnny asked if he could take the picture with her.

Naw Johnny was a great ambassador that day
It was hot and he only had a EZ up
But he was gracious to those who asked for a picture all day
except during turn ins :0)

columbia1 said:

To me it sounds like he believes BBQ comps went from a bunch of friends(cooks and judges) getting together and enjoying the weekend too a over commercialized event with large payouts(where judges and cooks are not intermingling, and money is more important then friendships). I do have some of the same feelings, as a few BBQ teams show up as late as they can, stay in their camp without socializing, and bail out as soon as possible after awards, also the majority of judges do sort of the same thing. The competition attitude has got too serious, which is understandable due to the cost of competing now days.

Click to expand...

We cook on a team in the Kansas City area.
I get to cook against some powerhouse teams every weekend.
Shout out to Truebud, Pellet Envy, Butchers, Burnt Fingers, Slabs.com, Squeal Like a Pig, Team Price Choppers, Nickel Boys BBW. (Just to mention a few....you to Stretch)
Got to meet Big Moe from Cason from Ponderosa BBQ, Jacks Old South, Cool Smoke, Chris Lilly and Smoking Triggers at the Royal this year.
They were all very friendly.
We want to win every event.
But.....we want to have fun.
These power house teams are friendly and helpful.
Just be friendly to everyone.
Let's get out there and have fun.
And yes, we have beat most of them once in a wile.

Scottie said:

A friend? Where do you think I get my girlfriends from? Damn, if I wipe 5 contests off the board, I would be a happy fellow.:shock:

Click to expand...

How many friends would you get if, for example, you offered to sell all of your BBQ equipment on Facebook? Strictly a hypothetical example, you understand. :becky:

Podge said:

Due to the judging in my area this past year, I am taking my ball and playing somewhere else.

Click to expand...

What was wrong with/bad about the judging in your area, and where/why do you think it'll be different?

Milt2tle said:

What was wrong with/bad about the judging in your area, and where/why do you think it'll be different?

Click to expand...

I cannot say with certainty that judging will be better in other areas. (Probably not) All I know is, is that I've seen too many judges show up for 2 contests in my area, and they were accommodated for. When there are 10 tables for a contest that needs 6 or 7, that can change the outcome. Also, I've seen some southern friends come up this way, and get jacked on some really bad tables in other contests.. I'm not going to hang around, cross my fingers and just hope things are better in 2015 in my area. I did 3 Kentucky contests in 2014. 2 of those, I hit both bad tables each of them had. You can expect one bad table at any contest, but a contest of about 40 teams having 2 really bad tables, as verified on score sheets, just want to move elsewhere and try something else.

I am headed to Tennessee next year for a couple of contests.. (probably only do 3-5 next year, if sam's works out for me in my area).. I will look at Tennessee's previous contests, what teams finished towards the top, as in, looking for consistency, and give them a shot.

Also, it's just a good idea to try out other contests.. This is a personal decision to change things up and my own opinion on how I see things with judging in my area. I'm sure plenty would disagree. That's ok. If I didn't hit both bad tables at each contest, I'm sure I'd feel a different way.

I'd challenge the general sentiment in this thread that bad (or more accurately uneven) judging is some kind of new trend. I've been cooking for 15 years and always, the cream rises to the top. I don't hear Tuffy or Darren complaining about the judging.

Here is what has changed. One, the new scoring sheets. Same judging that's been going on for years but now we get to see the gory details. Two, comp bbq classes. Over the past 3-5 years "the field" has improved the quality of BBQ entries dramatically. Instead of 10% of teams at a given contest cooking grand champion type entries now its 50%... or more. Not only that but from what I can tell the entries are remarkably similar. Same teachers, same sauces, same flavor profile, same appearances. Thus the feeling of the crapshoot.

Of course KCBS should lead the way in improving training and getting judges more level set on what a 9 is and what a 6 is. I've been in a judging tent twice so dont have much to offer here. But one thing is the judging classes should have some GC level entries, pictures, discussion of attributes of great bbq. The food I've seen at some judging classes is horrifying (sorry volunteers).

The other idea floated lately that we can somehow statistically "deek" the problem by putting X number of new judges on this table.. and put the guy that scored low the last two contest on that table is flawed and will produce just as many unexpected results. Guys, maybe the food on the so called table of death sucked!

Who has one of those shut up and cook t-shirts for me? :-D

CivilWarBBQ said:

I ran across the video today of the ex-CBJ who quit because he wasn't getting free T-shirts. If you haven't seen it yet, it is here: http://youtu.be/efZig1P3ZVE

Click to expand...

In the YouTube comments, the former judge indicates that one of the reason's he doesn't compete at contests himself is because of the expense.

Quote: "40 to 70 chicken breasts to get 6 perfect pieces"

Made me smile. :wacko:

ique said:

Guys, maybe the food on the so called table of death sucked!

Click to expand...

Doesn't seem to be the case, though. Every entry in every category was bad? Even entries from teams leading the TOY pack? Unlikely - especially when results are taken across multiple contests.

I sat next to a CBJ at one contest that scored EVERY SINGLE ENTRY a "6 6 6." Was all the food bad? No. I was getting the same stuff, and I was handling out 5s and 9s. It's OK (and expected) that the judge would have a different opinion than I do, but there was no way it all worthy of the same score. The judge was phoning it in.

CBQ said:

I sat next to a CBJ at one contest that scored EVERY SINGLE ENTRY a "6 6 6."

Click to expand...

Ah, the 6,6,6 judge, usually accompanied by their partner, the 7,8,9 judge.

CBQ said:

Doesn't seem to be the case, though. Every entry in every category was bad? Even entries from teams leading the TOY pack? Unlikely - especially when results are taken across multiple contests.

I sat next to a CBJ at one contest that scored EVERY SINGLE ENTRY a "6 6 6." Was all the food bad? No. I was getting the same stuff, and I was handling out 5s and 9s. It's OK (and expected) that the judge would have a different opinion than I do, but there was no way it all worthy of the same score. The judge was phoning it in.

Click to expand...

Well I said "maybe". A true table of death is definitely possible. Reading facebook and talking to folks it seems like the reason for every team's poor performance that weekend is the old "TOD". Sometimes its just not the case and especially when evaluating a single entry.