Some thoughts on experience and BBQ myths...

[Lake Dogs]

^^^ only on butts!

Actually, only when the wind is blowing east to west or the humidity is over 70% and ...


BECAUSE I foil (and I make no appologies) and I like bark, I cook fat side down. That's why and what I do, but that surely doesn't make it work for everyone, or with everyones techniques and certainly not with every smoker nor every type of wood used nor every temperature range cooked at... Plus it makes the freakin' paprika in our butt rub taste better! (at least the dog thinks so)

 

[jasonjax]

The only for sure go to rule of thumb i know.

Fat side down.

Lies and misinformation!

 

[Bbq Bubba]

Lies and misinformation!

Here we go.......

 

[btcg]

I discovered something interesting about experience in 1982 that rocked my world, and it's something that has remained with me.

I grew up in my Dad's TV repair shop. "BIll Wilson's Color TV" opened in 1955 on Grand River Ave in Detroit, and in 1957, I happened along. My Mom would take me with her on afternoons when she ran the shop (my Dad had a 2nd job at Massey Fergusen in those days), and on the weekends, I'd go in with my Dad while he worked on TV's & radios.

Over the years, the business moved, ending up in Highland Michigan, eventually being converted into movie rental stores. My Dad was one of the first to see the potential in renting vcr's and movies, and came up with a spiffy name: MOVIELAND

At one time, he had more than 50 stores in 4 states.

But Movieland did not come into being until I was around 20 years old, and by that time, I had about 12 years experience as an electronic tech, having worked for my Dad after school and on weekends all of those years I was growing up. And even as a kid, I was a pretty good tech.

I remember one guy my Dad hired as a bench tech. The guy was in his 40's, and had attended Reitz Electronic's School (my dad had also went there). I came in after school, and saw that he had ordered a tube for a set owned by a customer who was known to have a bad temper: we needed to fix that set, and fix it fast.

He had ordered a 6GH8a, which is a small tube used for the 3.58 oscillator (color frequency). I took the guy to the tube cabinet, and grabbed a 6EA8, and handed it to him, explaining that the 6EA8 was a known sub for the 6GH8a. Sure enough, it fixed the color problem.

The next day when I went in, the guy was no longer there. My Dad explained to me that the guy had been embarrassed by having a 12 year old kid 'show him up' (the guy's own words), and said that 'one of us had to go.' My Dad showed him the door.

But my Dad also had a little talk with me about humility, and that lesson sank in:

"Be humble, but don't let pride or humility cloud reality"

Good advice, even if I cannot always follow it myself.

But the real eye-opener happened in 1982. I was working part time for a guy in Garden City, Michigan, and repairing a lot of tuners.

Even though I had literally taken apart, cleaned and repaired hundreds of tuners before, I found that I was questioning myself... paying special attention to detail.

I mentioned it to the owner, and asked what he thought about it.

This man was very unique. he had worked for years repairing TV's, and had been a cameraman employed by CBC (Canadian TV) on the Bill Kennedy TV show ('Bill Kennedy at the movies'), and the 'Jingles the Clown" tv shows.

But in his early 50's, he decided to change his life: he enrolled at the University of Windsor, and got a couple of degrees in math and english.
He had a ton of life experience, and I really enjoyed talking with him and getting his take on things.

His take on my sudden special attention to detail: it was a sign of intellectual growth and insight. Roland (1 of the 2 Roland's I have met in my life) also said that most people don't find themselves doing this until they're a bit older, and have been doing whatever triggered this for many years. My years in my Dad's TV shop had jump-started me, and got me to that stage much earlier than most achieve it at.

I found myself remembering this lesson after the weekend at the Jack's Old South BBQ Cooking School:

Pay special attention to details, even those you know forwards and backwards.

Good piece Chris!

 

[GrillinFool]

I do this all the time. I do many side by sides to taste the difference between things. Recently, I bought a dry aged strip and a regular strip and ate them, with two other people, side by side and prepped them the exact same way.

I did the same thing with brined ribs. I made three slabs of ribs. One I covered with a rub and put in the fridge. One I put in a marinade apple cider, garlic and pepper. And one, I put in the same marinade with salt. All in the fridge over night.

The next day, I covered all the ribs with the exact same rub and cooked them identically. I've done this experiment three times, the last time for 8 guys. Brined ribs won 8-0. I posted the results here, and most people said they would never brine ribs or that they have before and they weren't any good.

Doing this test without something to compare to is pointless. I challenged people to do the test, and to this day, I don't think anyone has or at least hasn't responded to the thread that I know of.

Or how about the high heat method? I was a huge proponent of the 3-2-1 method, but found I could make ribs as good or better smoking at 300 for 2-2.5 hours. The biggest impetus to the change though was having kids and not having time to smoke ribs for 6 hours anymore.

 

[smokingj]

I like to keep it old school myself for many reasons:
* It's basically simple, i.e. the KISS method. No fancy gimmicks and etc that so many rely on today.
* It was the way I was taught
* I find it to be more reliable way of cooking
But it's more than that. It's about history and tradition. The hardships that so many immigrants and slaves went through back in the day and passed on to the newer generations. A time when life was more simpler compared to today's world and folks to time to cook a good meal, whether it was bbq'ing or grandma cooking up Sunday's pot roast in the oven with the complimentary vegetables.
Not saying I have not and still not learning, because I am. But I always find myself going back to the way I was taught.
I am resentful of the way some foods are being introduced to the pits, because I feel they have no place in bbq, i.e. shellfish, wonton, egg rolls, etc. then again I do realize that the USA is a melting pot and it is going to happen, just like the styles of the African Americans, European Immigrants melted together to give us traditional 'que.
I do have issues of some who do competition bbq and look down on you if your not in the same league as them, but usually laugh to myself when they have excuses not to accept my challenge of a cook-off. Makes me wonder why their scared of this old man especially when I challenge them to the cook-off traditional style with no digi therms, guru's, stokers, etc. Makes me wonder if they really can 'que without all the bells and whistles......but that's another story.
Long story short, I'm still learning and have learned some from the board and will continue to do so. Now whether I continue to use those methods or stick with the old school ways remains to be seen.

 

[gtr]

Y'all keep talkin' so's I can steal y'all's secrets.

op2:

 

[Wampus]

I recently started up a new business endeavor. When getting started I wanted to study everything. I wanted to know every single detail about what I was getting ready to do. A guy that I've become friends with who's helped me get rolling told me then, "You can study this for as long as you want and at the end of it, you'll know everything there is to know about it, but you won't have made any money. Just jump in and get started. You'll learn everything you need to know as you get rolling."

Great advice. It also applies to BBQ. I'm not discounting research and asking questions at all. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that. Take brisket, for example.....prior to my first try at brisket I posted a couple threads and asked via PM a few brethren about brisket cooks. I was so intimidated by the almighty brisket. Finally someone told me (on here) to just start the smoker and put it on. Watch temps like I knew how to do and roll.

As far as the BBQ EXPERTISE, it comes to each individual cook through nothing much more than EXPERIENCE. I understand not wanting to buy a $40+ brisket and ruin it, I really do understand that. But,the real secret in BBQ (IMHO) is to START and DO IT. The lessons you'll learn along the way are more valuable than anything anyone else will ever tell you.

Heck.....each of our tastes are different. Some of us like sweet sauce, some savory, some no sauce at all. Some like tough bark, some softer, some spicy, some inject, some don't and on and on and on..... How is it possible that we think there's any ONE WAY to do anything? Those who taste the final product aren't all going to end up with the same judgement on it. Doesn't mean the cook did anything WRONG necessarily.

Shoot...take me for example.....I joined this place in June of '09. I'd never smoked anything but cigarettes and cigars prior to then. I bought a used ECB and found some mods here and great advice on how to start. I started cooking that summer and since have who knows how many cooks under my belt. I've won at comps, I've had people hunt me down and pay me to cook for events and I get asked lots of advice on BBQ'ing from those who are just now getting started. I am nothing special. I just decided that I was going to DO IT and picked up what I now know along the way. The only two things I've learned that to me are real RULES are that (1) you have to know your cooker and know about fire control and that (2) you need to do what you need to do to yield the result that YOU are looking for. Cook for YOURSELF. Chances are, if you're happy about the result, then others will be too.

Great thread Chris. I like these ones that make you think. Even if it hurts a bit.....:roll:

 

[Mister Bob]

Well, I would have bet big money a few years ago that you couldn't cook a brisket hot and fast and have it come out tender...I would have lost.

 

[GrillinFool]

Well, I would have bet big money a few years ago that you couldn't cook a brisket hot and fast and have it come out tender...I would have lost.

Exactly. I do my briskets and pork butts at 300. Enough of this crap getting up in the middle of the night to throw a briskie on. I put it on and 9 and eat at 3-4.

 

[Wampus]

Well, I would have bet big money a few years ago that you couldn't cook a brisket hot and fast and have it come out tender...I would have lost.

HA HA HA!!! That's great you mentioned that. EXACTLY!

My buddy Jimmy (indianagriller here) told me that he does butts and brisket hot & fast and I couldn't believe it. But when we pulled them out of the smoker 4 hours after putting them on and when I tasted them they were tender as any low n slow I've ever had.......I believed him! Another one of those "hard & fast rules" that doesn't have to be that way.

 

[---k---]

Thanks for the post Biggie. I agree 100%. I only learn about 1/2 of something by reading. I need to do it for myself with my own gear to learn the other 1/2. I try my best to do my own experiments, I often just don't have the time or often a way to eat 2 full briskets at a time.

I've have been noticing a lot recently what an echo-chamber this place can be at times. Easy example, rubs: when I first joined it seemed like every post talked about Plowboys Yardbird. Now it seems like everyone is talking about Simply Marvelous. Going back to before I joined, and it seems like Smoking Guns and a few others were the rage. Other sites and it is a handful of different brands. Not that there is anything wrong or right with any of the rubs, it is just an example of how some things get repeated and other knowledge falls away.

Anytime someone posts a thread about an experiment they recently did, those are always my favorites.

Please return to your Mad Scientist posts and lets see if we can get others to join in!

 

[Grain Belt]

I think there is a "debate" ad nauseum about what real "Q" is. Some people go wild if its not "low and slow." Others flip out when someone is high heat grilling on gas or charcoal and they call it "barbecueing." I think the easiest way of turning off the general public is to berate them or to make them think that "Q" is some type of magical alchemy that only the chosen can do.

I thought BBQ was some secret art when I first started. I thought all kinds of special stuff was needed. The reality is that some really good food can be cooked up on a thrown away kettle grill, given a little TLC, a bag of Kingsford, and a few hardwood chunks. Let's show interested folks how to do some simple things and they will soon join the ranks.

I have a buddy who recently bought a house and bought a cheap gasser and would grill some burgers, steaks and chops. He then had some of my wings, ribs, pulled pork, etc. and started asking lots of questions. I had him over for some smokes on the weber kettle and he loved it. I then started asking him if he would be interested in finding a cheap weber to play around with at his place. I found him a $20 weber on craigslist, helped him clean it up, got him in on the Kingsford deal at HD this spring, and started smoking some thighs, wings, and other things on his new (to him) weber.

Long story short, I think the moral is not to debate about cooking but to do more cooking. Have a few beers and show people with interest how to do a few things. They will then get the bug and pass it on to others after having their own little parties and food sampling. After getting them into cooking, it is then possibly the time to have the conversation what to call what we do or other more "advanced" methods. I like to borrow literature to buddies once they catch "the bug." They then try new things. It's like watching a bird leave the nest. Passing on the basics of the weber kettle has made me enjoy my hobby tenfold.

 

[Lake Dogs]

Careful that the bird doesn't come back and explain to you that your steak was grilled and not barbecued.


<JOKE>

 

[42BBQ]

I believe Cue is an art. And thankfully, nothing approaching a "lost" art. I've been on here for a year a half. When I started I knew absolutely nothing except that I liked good BBQ and couldn't get it in these parts on a consistent basis. I built a drum (because I couldn't afford anything else) and started making tasty delicious stuff. Within 8 months of starting I had convinced my wife, and myself, that I needed a high quality woodburning offset. Now its a coin toss what I fire up and I love the food I cook on both.

Back to the art point. Every artist is different, has a different style, uses a different medium, has a different take or perspective on what they see in the world. No artist starts off and never grows, never increases their skills. On this site we have guys using anything from a free OTG they found in a backyard, to a $12,000 Jambo pit customized to the hilt. Yet the guy on the OTG or WSM can turn out a brisket just as good as the guy on the Jambo. Just being here, on an online forum, putting your cooks out there for all to see, shows that you are still trying to improve, to advance your skills, to grow as a BBQ artist. Finally, if it were not for the Brethren I would not be obsessed with BBQ and hoping someday to make it my living. There also would not be 8 or so friends of mine who are building drums, buying WSM's, and switching from gassers to Weber kettles What has inspired me here has in turn inspired friends of mine. This art form is not lost, it is growing every day.

 

[JD McGee]

I'm a trial and error kinda guy...I usually fark things up a few times before I nail it...

 

[Bigmista]

One of the "facts" that I believed for a long time, and later found out was a myth was: The fat cap on brisket melts and is absorbed into the meat, helping it stay juicy.... food science proved that's not possible.

And yet that old wive's tale is still being spewed today. I usually tell folks to put a pat of butter on top of a steak and tell me where it ends up.

And speaking of briskets, I learned to cook them low and slow and for 25 years or more that's the way I did them. In the last 10 years or so I've listened and learned that higher pit temps work too, and found out they work good for me.

I've learned that the actual temp doesn't matter as much as keeping it steady.

There areas many ways to barbecue as there are people on this forum and we can all learn something. I still feel like a rookie everytime I log on here because I know I'm gonna learn something new.

 

[LittleDick'sBBQ]

As far as still learning goes.... scraping the skin on thighs was the most radical thing I learned about, and my results were amazing.

What is this of which you speak??

Little Dick
(STILL trying to learn!)

 

[Bigmista]

I think there is a "debate" ad nauseum about what real "Q" is. Some people go wild if its not "low and slow." Others flip out when someone is high heat grilling on gas or charcoal and they call it "barbecueing." I think the easiest way of turning off the general public is to berate them or to make them think that "Q" is some type of magical alchemy that only the chosen can do.

I thought BBQ was some secret art when I first started. I thought all kinds of special stuff was needed. The reality is that some really good food can be cooked up on a thrown away kettle grill, given a little TLC, a bag of Kingsford, and a few hardwood chunks. Let's show interested folks how to do some simple things and they will soon join the ranks.

I have a buddy who recently bought a house and bought a cheap gasser and would grill some burgers, steaks and chops. He then had some of my wings, ribs, pulled pork, etc. and started asking lots of questions. I had him over for some smokes on the weber kettle and he loved it. I then started asking him if he would be interested in finding a cheap weber to play around with at his place. I found him a $20 weber on craigslist, helped him clean it up, got him in on the Kingsford deal at HD this spring, and started smoking some thighs, wings, and other things on his new (to him) weber.

Long story short, I think the moral is not to debate about cooking but to do more cooking. Have a few beers and show people with interest how to do a few things. They will then get the bug and pass it on to others after having their own little parties and food sampling. After getting them into cooking, it is then possibly the time to have the conversation what to call what we do or other more "advanced" methods. I like to borrow literature to buddies once they catch "the bug." They then try new things. It's like watching a bird leave the nest. Passing on the basics of the weber kettle has made me enjoy my hobby tenfold.

I don't have a problem with high heat grilling. I have a problem with calling it BBQ. It's kinda like calling Willie Nelson a Jazz singer. What he does is very nice but it ain't Jazz. I can cook some tasty ribs in the oven but it ain't BBQ. Gotta have some concept of what you are learning before you learn it. History ain't 2+2=4 and Math ain't the American Revolution.

 

[Lake Dogs]

I don't have a problem with high heat grilling. I have a problem with calling it BBQ. It's kinda like calling Willie Nelson a Jazz singer. What he does is very nice but it ain't Jazz. I can cook some tasty ribs in the oven but it ain't BBQ. Gotta have some concept of what you are learning before you learn it. History ain't 2+2=4 and Math ain't the American Revolution.

This is the new times we're in, so 2+2 probably equals a video somewhere that you dont want to explain to the kids when they bring it up....

But, yeah, some things are defined. There are definitions with real meanings. Boiling isn't Grilling which isn't Baking which is similar but not Barbecuing.