Phosphate Ban

[LongTong]

Getting back to the original question, let's pretend everyone on this thread somehow resolved all their differences about Web MD studies, the nuances of short/long chains,. and etc, and agreed to ban phosphates from comp bbq.

Are KCBS/other sanctioning bodies then supposed to get into the business of governing what brand of meats teams buy based on phosphate content? If the meat inspector asks the cook if any of their pretrimmed/vacuum sealed meats contain any phosphates and they don't know, then what? Send them home?

While the discussion may be an interesting one, the whole idea of a ban is a moot point in my opinion.

You are absolutely correct except for one thing. And, thank you for your post. Perhaps the title of this thread should have been "Phosphate Warning" :mod:

Meats are not to be pre-seasoned so your second paragraph is a false assumption.

All journey's start with a small first step and if I have done anything,I hope to have at least make some be more conscious of what goes in our food and ultimately what impact that may have on peoples's health...:bow:

 

[LongTong]

WebMD? Show me something from Lancet, or Annals of Internal Medicine, or the Journal of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics and I might take notice.

What about the New England Journal of Medicine?

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0SO.../105/PDF/RK=0/RS=vO5PleNKamxs.aDtxvx4ZbFWCZI-

 

[SDAR]

Sounds to me like if someone feels that strong about it, they ought to quit eating comp BBQ or BBQ all together. It also sounds like someone has big brother visions in trying to "save" everyone from themselves.

 

[Pappy Q]

Long Tong,

Please answer this question. Why do you continue to participate in judging/consuming a product you think is killing you and everyone else?

 

[Serious Hog]

Meats are not to be pre-seasoned so your second paragraph is a false assumption.

I'm not talking about pre-seasoning here and/or any injecting/adding of phosphates comp cooks might do. I'm referring to the many brands of meat that are sold already enhanced with a solution containing sodium phosphates.

A ban on phosphates would also mean banning some of the meat discussed in this thread:
http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=244297

 

[dirtydingus]

OK guys. Winter is over. Let's go cook!

I case you weren't listening the first time???????:doh:

 

[D&D BBQ]

You are absolutely correct except for one thing. And, thank you for your post. Perhaps the title of this thread should have been "Phosphate Warning" :mod:

Meats are not to be pre-seasoned so your second paragraph is a false assumption.

All journey's start with a small first step and if I have done anything,I hope to have at least make some be more conscious of what goes in our food and ultimately what impact that may have on peoples's health...:bow:

So, should Smithfield ET ribs and butts be banned then since they are "preseasoned" with an injection/brine that may or may not contain phosphates?

 

[Jorge]

Just hypertension, arterial calcification, and kidney load in some compromised individuals - from a published scientific paper back in 2014. There's already enough crap in our environment so why add more?

If you're good enough to cook outstanding BBQ with proper amounts of added phosphates, you're good enough to cook outstanding BBQ without them:shocked:

It's those cooks who's samples bounce and feel like a Nerf basketball that are the problem. Just know some judges are refined enough to know the difference and the scores may just reflect that. What comment card? What are you talking about? What?

Just to make sure that I'm not inferring something that isn't there... Are you saying that you may score an entry lower if you believe the cook has used phosphates than you would if you believed they didn't?

 

[LongTong]

Long Tong,

Please answer this question. Why do you continue to participate in judging/consuming a product you think is killing you and everyone else?

For the same reason we are all here...:crazy:

 

[LongTong]

Just to make sure that I'm not inferring something that isn't there... Are you saying that you may score an entry lower if you believe the cook has used phosphates than you would if you believed they didn't?

Maybe. I'm not the only one who talks about this and as a matter of fact this has been brought to my attention many times over the years from others in the tent. Perhaps I'm stupid for sticking my snout in others business on this forum but the bottom line has always been:

Add ingredients to your entries at the risk of your own peril...

Over and out on this topic...

Please feel free to PM myself if need be.

Good luck out there!

 

[gettinbasted]

You'd be extremely hard pressed to find any entries that are getting calls without phosphates added. I know they have to be out there, but I can't name a single cook that doesn't use them in some capacity.

 

[LongTong]

You'd be extremely hard pressed to find any entries that are getting calls without phosphates added. I know they have to be out there, but I can't name a single cook that doesn't use them in some capacity.

I was so over this topic but I, myself have taken a third without them and there are many more who have as well but we'll never really know. So again, add/don't add ingredients at the risk of your own peril.

Good luck farkers...

 

[Fat Freddy]

I wasnt going to say anything, and probably still shouldnt, but had 2 interesting thoughts. 1 directly on subject 1 off subject but is talking different views on medical studies.

I have to sit out this season because of some health issues and have been to several doctors and dieticians. NONE agree with each other and each says because of studies. IE. Asparteme Studies show bad because blah blah blah, however american Diabetes association is ok with the use of it. One dietician says i should use whole milk another says only skim milk. We have all heard the dangers about cholesterol and eggs however 1 dietician recommends I hard boil eggs as snacks because eggs good for me. Point there being for every study there is a study that argues the opposite ie tobacco studies in the 60s and 70s by cigarette companies, it is all in the interpretation.

Specifically on subject now. The is a master judge and a very good friend of mine(still praying for you buddy) that would judge a warm up contest where after the actual judging we would be able to talk to the judges to see why entries were scored how they were. Anyways this particular judge was famous for saying "I can tell your ribs are enhanced" and then would explain how he could tell by the taste and texture and he judged accordingly. If he scores that way now, I dont know as this was several years ago. I know I still give him a hard time. But so yes I have heard a master judge make the comment about "enhanced" ribs. Truth though is at least in the midwest I bet 90% of entries are enhanced.

 

[DUBBAGA]

I was so over this topic but I, myself have taken a third without them and there are many more who have as well but we'll never really know. So again, add/don't add ingredients at the risk of your own peril.

Good luck farkers...

A lot has changed since 2011, which includes the regular use of phosphates and premium meats (especially for brisket). I would be interested to see the last time a team has won brisket with a Select, probably 2011 as well.

 

[LongTong]

A lot has changed since 2011, which includes the regular use of phosphates and premium meats (especially for brisket). I would be interested to see the last time a team has won brisket with a Select, probably 2011 as well.

Sure, a lot of things have changed and a lot are the same old enhancers. While it may be interesting to hear if anybody has won with an enhanced or unenhanced select packer, you can't assume all walks are now with enhanced product. Due to secretive nature of the sport, one will never know for sure...

 

[Okie Sawbones]

Thank you for the great info but, my research shows that added phosphates are long chain and different from naturally occurring phosphates which are short chain and the long chain variety are much more readily absorbed during digestion...:shocked:

This is false.

 

[ModelMaker]

Just to make sure that I'm not inferring something that isn't there... Are you saying that you may score an entry lower if you believe the cook has used phosphates than you would if you believed they didn't?

I helped at a judges certification class last Sat. and while the Rep was requesting scores and reasoning for brisket one trainee said he scored down for the brown stain on his slice of brisket.
Then he asked if he should have done so and was told "your the judge, how you score within the rules is your goal".
I agree.
Ed

 

[SDAR]

Maybe. I'm not the only one who talks about this and as a matter of fact this has been brought to my attention many times over the years from others in the tent. Perhaps I'm stupid for sticking my snout in others business on this forum but the bottom line has always been:

Add ingredients to your entries at the risk of your own peril...

Over and out on this topic...

Please feel free to PM myself if need be.

Good luck out there!

I was so over this topic but I, myself have taken a third without them and there are many more who have as well but we'll never really know. So again, add/don't add ingredients at the risk of your own peril.

Good luck farkers...

Sure, a lot of things have changed and a lot are the same old enhancers. While it may be interesting to hear if anybody has won with an enhanced or unenhanced select packer, you can't assume all walks are now with enhanced product. Due to secretive nature of the sport, one will never know for sure...

You are so ruining your mic drop that it has become funny. :becky:

 

[BBQchef33]

i havent read the entire thread in detail but heres my 2 cents worth aside from all the scientific analogies.

1 - Cooks cook the food targeting the ONE BITE.. so in order to get that 'wow factor', we do whatever is necessary.. I know for a fact that my competition brisket is so rich, that one can only eat a few slices. It is NOT what I call an 'eating brisket'. I would not cook for friends or family the same way I do for judges. That includes injecting. If I inject for family, its just apple juice, broth, etc.. no phosphates. Do I always inject contest briskets, no, depends on marbling.. and yes, butts get injected. But backyard cooking is much lighter seasoning and usually no saucing. Its how my family prefers it.

2 - Judges are there to judge whats in front of them. Which in many cases is made with one or 2 bite consumption in mind. We are not sending in a box for a judge to have tomorrows lunch or tonights midnight snack.

3 - With that in mind, the rule of everything in moderation would apply. Setting aside allergies, i doubt taking 2 bites of each 6 slices of brisket or a few samples of pork is going to have a huge effect on someone.

Now, take home all your samples and chow down on all of it at midnight.. Well, good luck with that. Youre making your own bed.

 

[Jorge]

I helped at a judges certification class last Sat. and while the Rep was requesting scores and reasoning for brisket one trainee said he scored down for the brown stain on his slice of brisket.
Then he asked if he should have done so and was told "your the judge, how you score within the rules is your goal".
I agree.
Ed

Not to derail the thread, I agree as well as long as we are talking about an appearance score.

There is nothing in the rules that prohibits that. The sample is to be judged as presented. If a judge dings an entry because it's mushy or overcooked that's fine. If a judge dings that entry because they think phosphates were used, that isn't fine. That judge should be removed.

Your example is perfect. What a cook used, or did to create the entry should never be considered by a judge. I looked good or it didn't on a scale of 1-9. it had the proper tenderness on a scale of 1-9. I tasted good or it didn't on a scale of 1-9.