Phosphates for injections???

[jjdbike]

Hello fellow Q enthusiasts,

As I prepare for new next cook, which will be pork butt to start to stock the freezer in my new home, as always, I plan on injecting. As I do my research, I'm hearing about phosphates in injections for moisture retention. From the hip, adding phosphates doesn't sound very healthy, but I really have no idea. There is some good evidence that phosphates can have some benefits for meat products like moisture retention, color retention and extending shelf life. What I do not know is does it impact the flavor and does it have any negative health risks.

Commercial injection mixes often include phosphates, along w/ aded flavor. If one wanted to add phosphates to their injection, I wonder how you'd do it proportion wise and where you could source it.

Can you folks who know please share info on use of phosphate for injections?

Thanks in advance!
​​​​​​​JD

 

[SirPorkaLot]

To each their own, but I won’t use phosphate injections for any reason, since I don’t compete anymore.

A lot of bbq competitors use them, but they are going for just one bite.

To be honest, I have never found a reason to inject a pork butt.

There’s plenty of fat in there and I like the taste of pork, not some questionable injection.

 

[Westx]

If Iwanted to inject a butt it would be with White Grape juice and some seasoning mixed in.

 

[Back9Q]

I used phosphates in competitions only. Really no need at home and I dont even inject at all anymore. Especially pork butt because of fat content


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[jjdbike]

I used phosphates in competitions only. Really no need at home and I dont even inject at all anymore. Especially pork butt because of fat content


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Thanks,
Did you notice any negative impacts of the phosphates, e.g. off taste or artificial ish flavor?
JD

 

[JRDINCC]

Never used phosphates so have no clue. Do see phosphates in some sausage recipes and just left them out. Anyone use in sausage?

 

[SMOKE FREAK]

I've used phosphate brines and phosphate injections. Both with no issues.
They work and that's all I need to know.

But I agree with those that say no need to inject a butt.

 

[thirdeye]

My favorite pork injection is based on homemade smoked pork broth (from smoked neck bones), Minor's Pork Base, and Coca-Cola. I have added phosphates to this injection, but on larger cooks I generally omit them.

You will find phosphates in most cured products you buy at the store, because they really do grab onto liquid. I use phosphates when curing my hams, corned beef, Porkstrami and some sausage products. The big meats are cured in a brine and I inject about 10% by weight... so a combination cure method. I use A product called AmesPhos from The Ingredient Store. This blend was developed by Joe Ames who also had the "Fab" line of meat injections. I tried posting a link, but can't seem to find the online store.

The Kosmos beef injections and Big Poppa beef and pork injections I use have phosphates, but I use much less than the 'competition' recommended amounts.

 

[jjdbike]

My favorite pork injection is based on homemade smoked pork broth (from smoked neck bones), Minor's Pork Base, and Coca-Cola. I have added phosphates to this injection, but on larger cooks I generally omit them.

You will find phosphates in most cured products you buy at the store, because they really do grab onto liquid. I use phosphates when curing my hams, corned beef, Porkstrami and some sausage products. The big meats are cured in a brine and I inject about 10% by weight... so a combination cure method. I use A product called AmesPhos from The Ingredient Store. This blend was developed by Joe Ames who also had the "Fab" line of meat injections. I tried posting a link, but can't seem to find the online store.

The Kosmos beef injections and Big Poppa beef and pork injections I use have phosphates, but I use much less than the 'competition' recommended amounts.

Thanks!
I appreciate that.
I’m curious why you use less… what is the down side to competition recommended amounts? Does it have a detrimental impact on flavor or texture?
JD

 

[thirdeye]

Thanks!
I appreciate that.
I’m curious why you use less… what is the down side to competition recommended amounts? Does it have a detrimental impact on flavor or texture?
JD

So, for perspective. competition BBQ is scored on Appearance first... then entries are received and sampled for Taste, and Tenderness. Each entry is fully scored before moving to the next entry, so the Judge is not comparing entries. And typically, judging requires 24 (or so) bites of food over a 2-hour period of time. And in a 30-minute window for each meat, judging takes about 12 to 15 minutes.

At the competition level the flavors are somewhat ramped up, so that the one bite the judges take from each entry is more likely to earn a high score for "Taste". And it's noteworthy that "Taste" is the highest valued component when scoring an entry, meaning it carries more weight. And aside from using an injection, rub and/or sauce combination, many competition cooks use a large amount of butter or a spray butter product. Several of the cooks I know aren't trying to impress or wow all 6 judges, but rather not offend even one judge. Their goal is to turn in 4 solid entries.

"Tenderness" is scored during the same bite as "Taste" but has it's own scoring guidelines and for the most part, cooks are pretty dialed in to the texture they want to present.

So to answer your question about recommended amounts, it's safe to say that taste-wise, I can often do more with less when I'm cooking my typical backyard BBQ. And I serve sauce at the table so I'm not pushing or presenting a full flavor profile. It's funny, but I usually work a little harder on my tenderness/moistness because I'm trying to show off. :mrgreen:

 

[jjdbike]

So, for perspective. competition BBQ is scored on Appearance first... then entries are received and sampled for Taste, and Tenderness. Each entry is fully scored before moving to the next entry, so the Judge is not comparing entries. And typically, judging requires 24 (or so) bites of food over a 2-hour period of time. And in a 30-minute window for each meat, judging takes about 12 to 15 minutes.

At the competition level the flavors are somewhat ramped up, so that the one bite the judges take from each entry is more likely to earn a high score for "Taste". And it's noteworthy that "Taste" is the highest valued component when scoring an entry, meaning it carries more weight. And aside from using an injection, rub and/or sauce combination, many competition cooks use a large amount of butter or a spray butter product. Several of the cooks I know aren't trying to impress or wow all 6 judges, but rather not offend even one judge. Their goal is to turn in 4 solid entries.

"Tenderness" is scored during the same bite as "Taste" but has it's own scoring guidelines and for the most part, cooks are pretty dialed in to the texture they want to present.

So to answer your question about recommended amounts, it's safe to say that taste-wise, I can often do more with less when I'm cooking my typical backyard BBQ. And I serve sauce at the table so I'm not pushing or presenting a full flavor profile. It's funny, but I usually work a little harder on my tenderness/moistness because I'm trying to show off. :mrgreen:

Got it.
Thanks for the education and perspective.
Much appreciated!
JD

 

[Back9Q]

Thanks,
Did you notice any negative impacts of the phosphates, e.g. off taste or artificial ish flavor?
JD

No. As others have said it’s great for comps when judges only use one bite and food could sit for a while.


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