Newbie self builder reverse flow, two cooks, two fails.

[Notorious Q.U.E.]

A restriction on the reverse flow is not going to help at all. At this point you want to maximize airflow and avoid any restrictions.

I will repeat it again. Shorter chimney = LESS DRAFT!

The problem is either insufficient fire or not enough draft. Cutting the chimney is only going to make things worse. If you guys want to put your money where your mouth is, I will add 10-12 feet of additional chimney pipe to my Lang and demonstrate that the smoke will not cool off and fall back into the cook chamber. Raise $1000 to bet against me and I'll give you 2:1 odds. Word of warning, my degree in aerospace engineering comes from a real acredited university. I learned thermodynamics and fluid dynamics from text books and professors, not Internet forums. You will lose.

For the OP, build a bigger fire and see if it will burn clean. If not, post the dimensions of your openings, and pictures of your fire. Also what temperatures you are seeing. If the wood is 3+ years old and your fire has a sufficient coal bed, I am concerned that the firebox exit and RF are too small. Also, space in the firebox may be an issue.

Damn! Stick it to 'em m-fine!!

 

[Smilerb]

The total airflow is going to be limited by the chimney if it is the same size as the intake. A second intake may help with air distribution but won't increase the total amount of air going through the firebox. If you have enough air to run at 480, you have enough to run at smoking temps.

If you are having a hard time maintaining coals, that could be overly dry wood, or too much falling through the grate, or simply part of the learning curve. You can lay another layer of mesh across the grate and then just watch for them getting blocked with ash. I would also suggest looking for wood that was cut and split between 3 and 12 months ago.

Hi Blondy,

I meant to send this earlier this week, I use one of these in my smoker

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Open-...105752?hash=item2a844a9118:g:wmEAAOSww5hZNY3c

If it fits your fire box it would cross off a number of possible problems that have been raised.

Gavin

 

[Blondy_UK]

Hi Blondy,

I meant to send this earlier this week, I use one of these in my smoker

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Open-...105752?hash=item2a844a9118:g:wmEAAOSww5hZNY3c

If it fits your fire box it would cross off a number of possible problems that have been raised.

Gavin

Looks good and size wise wood fit in but i dont think i will go through the lid so i will make another basket with sides on it that will just fit in and have another burn. Cant wait for that first 'mmm that tastes good moment.'

 

[sleebus.jones]

That cast iron grate is a bit overkill. I'd just put a sheet of heavy duty expanded metal in there...takes up way less space and is cheaper.

 

[SmokinJohn]

I think we forgot to ask some REALLY important questions:

How big were those butts?
What was the temp and IT when you foiled them?
Why foil after 3 hours?

 

[SmittyJonz]

That cast iron grate is a bit overkill. I'd just put a sheet of heavy duty expanded metal in there...takes up way less space and is cheaper.

He's in UK - said expanded metal is $$$$ over there

 

[sleebus.jones]

He's in UK - said expanded metal is $$$$ over there

Ah, whoops. My bad. :doh:

 

[unzippy]

Expanded metal in teh UK - https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=expanded+metal#q=expanded+metal&tbm=shop

Doesn't look that bad online and I'm sure builders merchants will do it cheaper if you walk in..?

 

[Blondy_UK]

I think we forgot to ask some REALLY important questions:

How big were those butts?
What was the temp and IT when you foiled them?
Why foil after 3 hours?

Hi they were small about 4lb, i didnt want to waste a big cut on my first attempts.
I wrapped after an hour and half the temp was around 165℉ and still after that short smoke time and i think another 3-4 hours cooking it was nasty, realy moist though.
I have a few things to try this weekend and see how i get on.

 

[Blondy_UK]

I have had a better weekend for smoking, i made a basket for the coals out of 1" square mesh. I started the fire with briquettes in a chimney the added them to the firebox with some splits of wood and got the temp up to over 300 f then reduced it back to around 250f and added a small pork shoulder and a small rack of pork ribs that had been marinated overnight in the fridge.

I kept the next pieces of wood on the firebox to preheat before adding when the temp started dropping i was using my Thermopro T20 duel probe thermometer to keep an eye on temps, and kept the lid of the fire box open a while every time i added wood so that i would catch without smoking and then close lid to bring temp up again which resulted in a much cleaner burn with hardly any visible smoke from the stack, mostly it was clear with just a heat haze.

The results were much better with nothing going in the bin, ribs for breakfast this morning and pulled pork sandwiches for lunch tomorrow. Still getting to know the pit as i found it unstable at lower temps so maybe will try using smaller chunks of wood but more often. Its gonna be a learning curve but glad to get some good results and know that it does work it was just user error.

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions that helped to understand that it is not a light and forget operation but a more involved hobby.

 

[SmokinJohn]

Hi they were small about 4lb, i didnt want to waste a big cut on my first attempts.
I wrapped after an hour and half the temp was around 165℉ and still after that short smoke time and i think another 3-4 hours cooking it was nasty, realy moist though.
I have a few things to try this weekend and see how i get on.

I think you got bad smoke/creosote on those butts.

But I normally don't pull my butt (SILENCE!!) until the IT is 190F. At 165, it is still fighting the stall.

 

[sleebus.jones]

Good to hear you've had some better luck there, Blondy!

 

[SirPorkaLot]

The issue is not the chimney height as much as the diameter

From the photos..it looks like too small of an intake for the size of the cooker and not a large enough diameter om the chimney.
Stick burning is all about airflow (draft).

You want your cook chamber to be tight (no air flows except where you want it to).

If it is sealed up tight, then the exhaust stack (chimney) should pull a negative air pressure across the cook chamber, literally pulling the air from the intake vent.

If the chimney is obstructed (or too tall/small), it won't pull enough draft (negative air pressure in chamber).

As an experiment; Try putting a small fan at the intake vent (outside the firebox), so that the fan will pull airway from the firebox. I think you will find you have a much stronger draft then, which will help to keep creosote forming on the meat

 

[Bob C Cue]

A restriction on the reverse flow is not going to help at all. At this point you want to maximize airflow and avoid any restrictions.

I will repeat it again. Shorter chimney = LESS DRAFT!

The problem is either insufficient fire or not enough draft. Cutting the chimney is only going to make things worse. If you guys want to put your money where your mouth is, I will add 10-12 feet of additional chimney pipe to my Lang and demonstrate that the smoke will not cool off and fall back into the cook chamber. Raise $1000 to bet against me and I'll give you 2:1 odds. Word of warning, my degree in aerospace engineering comes from a real acredited university. I learned thermodynamics and fluid dynamics from text books and professors, not Internet forums. You will lose.

For the OP, build a bigger fire and see if it will burn clean. If not, post the dimensions of your openings, and pictures of your fire. Also what temperatures you are seeing. If the wood is 3+ years old and your fire has a sufficient coal bed, I am concerned that the firebox exit and RF are too small. Also, space in the firebox may be an issue.

Sounds like you know your hot air!

 

[m-fine]

I have had a better weekend for smoking, i made a basket for the coals out of 1" square mesh. I started the fire with briquettes in a chimney the added them to the firebox with some splits of wood and got the temp up to over 300 f then reduced it back to around 250f and added a small pork shoulder and a small rack of pork ribs that had been marinated overnight in the fridge.

I kept the next pieces of wood on the firebox to preheat before adding when the temp started dropping i was using my Thermopro T20 duel probe thermometer to keep an eye on temps, and kept the lid of the fire box open a while every time i added wood so that i would catch without smoking and then close lid to bring temp up again which resulted in a much cleaner burn with hardly any visible smoke from the stack, mostly it was clear with just a heat haze.

The results were much better with nothing going in the bin, ribs for breakfast this morning and pulled pork sandwiches for lunch tomorrow. Still getting to know the pit as i found it unstable at lower temps so maybe will try using smaller chunks of wood but more often. Its gonna be a learning curve but glad to get some good results and know that it does work it was just user error.

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions that helped to understand that it is not a light and forget operation but a more involved hobby.

If it is too difficult to smoke at 250, try 275. You can also try smaller pieces of wood to maintain a lower temperature, but you may find it challenging to maintain a bed of coals and a lower stable temperature at the same time.

 

[mrbill]

Its gonna be a learning curve but glad to get some good results and know that it does work it was just user error.

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions that helped to understand that it is not a light and forget operation but a more involved hobby.

glad you're getting it down and producing some good food.


there is always a learning curve with any new cooker. how steep that curve is depends on many variables. if you want set it and forget it cooking, go with a wsm or insulated vertical paired up with a pit controller. if you want to have a hand in the process and don't mind stirring coals, tapping dampers and otherwise tinkering with the cooker for hours on end, then a stick burner is what you seek.