Newbie self builder reverse flow, two cooks, two fails.

I forgot to mention the wrap foil was a bit 'bronzed' after about 2 1/2 hours and the unburnt wood in the firebox might have been me closing the chimney and air inlet after i took off the meat and finished cooking.
 
From what i've seen it looks to me like it's a decent setup with plenty of room for a fire, decent air intake, large enough opening into cooking chamber, decent length cooking chamber, ok exhaust layout(although i prefer to have the exhaust exit at the highest point to promote air flow) so i'm not exactly sure where to problem lies. Could be operator error, bad wood, bad thermometers, bad meat etc. What i'd try is to run it with just splits and no food just to see if you cant get things to run right. Exhaust wide open, only use splits, air intake wide open and only start closing when temps get over 250 then watch temps and adjust every 15 minutes. With practice i'm sure you'll figure it out.
 
Blondy,

Thanks for the pics they each tell a story. Before you get all medieval with a cutting wheel, it would be best to do some science to see what you have. Hopefully you have (or know an engineering friend with) a set of thermocouplers and a data recorder? If not, can you get something like a Weber "igrill2"? You need to understand what is happening inside the closed lid during a burm cycle.
Based on the discoloration of the plate at the throat of the cooking chamber ( just below the stack) I suspect you have some hotspot issues. Is your plate angled down towards the far end of the cooking chamber or setting flat? If it is flat, the oils will not drain off of the plate properly to avoid burning! Further, if it is flat and the cooker is oriented with the firebox slightly downhill, oil will be running directly into the hotspot. Burning oils would account for the "bronzed" aluminum foil as well as the dark psoot on the bottom of the stack pipe.
If the unit is sucking ash and making soot, it is no wonder the meat is about as pleasant as a chunk of tender asphalt!
 
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I wonder how my wood burning stove could possibly work with an 18 foot tall chimney? Oh that's right, the specs call for a 15 foot minimum chimney rise. But what do the engineers, testing labs and building code people know anyway?

How to make a smoker that looks funny, apparently. :crazy:

My thoughts are:

1. How green is your wood?
2. How sure are you it's oak?
3. What does your smoker smell like when there's nothing in it and no fire?

I'm thinking it's either the wood or residue from the propane. It's certainly not nonsense like "smoke falling back down the chimney". :doh:
 
From what i've seen it looks to me like it's a decent setup with plenty of room for a fire, decent air intake, large enough opening into cooking chamber, decent length cooking chamber, ok exhaust layout(although i prefer to have the exhaust exit at the highest point to promote air flow) so i'm not exactly sure where to problem lies. Could be operator error, bad wood, bad thermometers, bad meat etc. What i'd try is to run it with just splits and no food just to see if you cant get things to run right. Exhaust wide open, only use splits, air intake wide open and only start closing when temps get over 250 then watch temps and adjust every 15 minutes. With practice i'm sure you'll figure it out.

quite possibly user error, i haven't got a problem in cutting the chimney inside the cc or just cut some vertical slits, as for thermometers i had only the dial ones installed on the second cook and there was a difference 50f being 250f at the firebox end, but there seems to be a hotspot on the reverse plate above the firebox entrance. I have now received my Thermo Pro TP20 wireless probe so will use this over the weekend with just charcoal and splits to get an idea on chamber temps and chimney temps too.
 
I'd trim up the exhaust inside the smoker. Try different wood or a charcoal only cook.
Could be drippings burning like already said. Maybe cook in pans.

Would putting slits or even holes in the chimney inside do they same as trimming off?
I was using shallow pans beneath the cook grate to catch anything but they were sitting on the reverse plate. I will also jack the firebox end up very slightly when i cook with meat again to drain any grease if any down to the opposite end and may install a drain valve.
 
Blondy,

Thanks for the pics they each tell a story. Before you get all medieval with a cutting wheel, it would be best to do some science to see what you have. Hopefully you have (or know an engineering friend with) a set of thermocouplers and a data recorder? If not, can you get something like a Weber "igrill2"? You need to understand what is happening inside the closed lid during a burm cycle.
Based on the discoloration of the plate at the throat of the cooking chamber ( just below the stack) I suspect you have some hotspot issues. Is your plate angled down towards the far end of the cooking chamber or setting flat? If it is flat, the oils will not drain off of the plate properly to avoid burning! Further, if it is flat and the cooker is oriented with the firebox slightly downhill, oil will be running directly into the hotspot. Burning oils would account for the "bronzed" aluminum foil as well as the dark psoot on the bottom of the stack pipe.
If the unit is sucking ash and making soot, it is no wonder the meat is about as pleasant as a chunk of tender asphalt!

mmm, tender asphalt sounds good compared to my first try.
There is a hotspot as you say but there shouldn't have been any drippings as i had 2 trays under there but one of them may have been sitting over the hotspot slightly.

Sucking soot, would that be the lack of space beneath the fire grate?
 
How to make a smoker that looks funny, apparently. :crazy:

My thoughts are:

1. How green is your wood?
2. How sure are you it's oak?
3. What does your smoker smell like when there's nothing in it and no fire?

I'm thinking it's either the wood or residue from the propane. It's certainly not nonsense like "smoke falling back down the chimney". :doh:

Hi, first time cook was definitely dry but not oak, some sort of maple i think front my front garden about 4 years ago.

I did set fire to both chambers after i finished building, the cooker smells smokey but when i rub my hand around the bottom or inside the stack there is no soot residue on my fingers but the too smell smokey.
 
Yes sir, it may me sucking grayish ash out of the fire box.....soot is the black stuff burning oil (rendered fat) produces. Indeed, if the pan was on on very near a hot spot, the oils can still get hot enough to burn. Only way is to know is to probe it up. Good luck
 
The flavor problem may just be the wood. Some sort of whatever is not good. I don't know what you can get locally, but look for fruit or nut trees, white or post oak, hickory, or sugar maple. There are others, but at least know what it is. Split it to coke can/beer bottle thickness. Make sure it is seasoned but not too old and decaying either. The wood I use is usually 6 months to a year old, not multi year old (unlike what I burn for heat which I like more seasoned and lower moisture content).

I would give yourself a clean start. Raise your fire grate so there is at least 2" under it, 4+ is better. Build a nice big raging wood fire and get the cook chamber up to about 500* F. If there is any spilled drippings they will give off white smoke and then eventually it should burn clean. If there are a lot of drippings it could take an hour or more at high temp before the smoke clears, very little and it should clear up quickly. If you can get it up to 500 and the fire isn't smoldering, you should have enough airflow to smoke. If not, we have some design debugging to do.

Once it has stabilized around 500 for a bit and the smoke is clean, spray the insides down with a garden hose a steam clean it well. Let the fire die back a bit but maintain a pile of coals that will ignite a new split quickly. See if you can stabilize the fire between 225 and 300 adding a split or two every 30-60 minutes. Splits should ignite fairly quickly and burn clean. Try to keep most of the fire toward the end away from the outlet to the cook chamber. Keep the vents open for now and try to maintain a lower temp with a smaller fire NOT with choked back airflow. You can learn to dial back the air for later cooks after you verify that everything else works, but air is never a primary temp control on a stick burner, control comes from managing the fire. Smoke should be very thin and flowing steadily out of the chimney in a fairly smooth continuous stream. If you can smell it, it should smell pleasant, not bitter or harsh or chemically etc. If all goes well to this point, then try throwing on a pork butt. Otherwise come back here and report.

Once on to the pork butt cook, If your RF plate is over 370 give or take fats will smoke. Give yourself 1-2" or more of an airgap between the drip pans and the RF plate to keep the pans from over heating and to let the RF plate work. Any clean non-combustible spacer should work (tuna cans, brick pieces, cooling rack, whatever. Keeping a bit of liquid in the pan should also prevent any fat smoke. If the RF plate is below 350 and it drains, you will not need drip pans, but stick to them for now to help debug. BTW, an RF thermometer gun would be the best tool to check RF plate temp in different locations. Cook a pork butt unwrapped for 6-12 hours at 225-300 (time depending on size temp etc.) until it is soft enough to pull easily. You can wrap when done for resting/holding, but the key is it should easily be able to cook that long unwrapped without any hint of bad smoke flavor. This is a cut that is hard to screw up so it is a good test meat.

What is the chimney diameter and what is the cross sectional area of the space below the RF plate? What are the dimensions of the fire box and the cook chamber?
 
The flavor problem may just be the wood. Some sort of whatever is not good. I don't know what you can get locally, but look for fruit or nut trees, white or post oak, hickory, or sugar maple. There are others, but at least know what it is. Split it to coke can/beer bottle thickness. Make sure it is seasoned but not too old and decaying either. The wood I use is usually 6 months to a year old, not multi year old (unlike what I burn for heat which I like more seasoned and lower moisture content).

I would give yourself a clean start. Raise your fire grate so there is at least 2" under it, 4+ is better. Build a nice big raging wood fire and get the cook chamber up to about 500* F. If there is any spilled drippings they will give off white smoke and then eventually it should burn clean. If there are a lot of drippings it could take an hour or more at high temp before the smoke clears, very little and it should clear up quickly. If you can get it up to 500 and the fire isn't smoldering, you should have enough airflow to smoke. If not, we have some design debugging to do.

Once it has stabilized around 500 for a bit and the smoke is clean, spray the insides down with a garden hose a steam clean it well. Let the fire die back a bit but maintain a pile of coals that will ignite a new split quickly. See if you can stabilize the fire between 225 and 300 adding a split or two every 30-60 minutes. Splits should ignite fairly quickly and burn clean. Try to keep most of the fire toward the end away from the outlet to the cook chamber. Keep the vents open for now and try to maintain a lower temp with a smaller fire NOT with choked back airflow. You can learn to dial back the air for later cooks after you verify that everything else works, but air is never a primary temp control on a stick burner, control comes from managing the fire. Smoke should be very thin and flowing steadily out of the chimney in a fairly smooth continuous stream. If you can smell it, it should smell pleasant, not bitter or harsh or chemically etc. If all goes well to this point, then try throwing on a pork butt. Otherwise come back here and report.

Once on to the pork butt cook, If your RF plate is over 370 give or take fats will smoke. Give yourself 1-2" or more of an airgap between the drip pans and the RF plate to keep the pans from over heating and to let the RF plate work. Any clean non-combustible spacer should work (tuna cans, brick pieces, cooling rack, whatever. Keeping a bit of liquid in the pan should also prevent any fat smoke. If the RF plate is below 350 and it drains, you will not need drip pans, but stick to them for now to help debug. BTW, an RF thermometer gun would be the best tool to check RF plate temp in different locations. Cook a pork butt unwrapped for 6-12 hours at 225-300 (time depending on size temp etc.) until it is soft enough to pull easily. You can wrap when done for resting/holding, but the key is it should easily be able to cook that long unwrapped without any hint of bad smoke flavor. This is a cut that is hard to screw up so it is a good test meat.

What is the chimney diameter and what is the cross sectional area of the space below the RF plate? What are the dimensions of the fire box and the cook chamber?

The chimney is 4" diameter as is the air intake. The rf plate is 13" across and there is probably 4-5" gap underneath. The cook chamber is about 15"x 39" the firebox is14"x 22".

I had a dry run yesterday and got the cook chamber upto 480℉ and sprayed it with water/steam, then got it back upto temp for a while with wood chunks. I probed the chimney at 3 places and they were between 380℉-450℉ and plenty of draft with a big fire but it seems when trying to bring the fire down later it would not hold 230℉ very well, couldnt get a decent coals bed but maybe the 1" square grate is to big and the smaller coals were dropping out. When i put another wood chunk on it would take time before it caught and i would blow on it to get it to light, perhaps i need another air inlet. Also i had to have the lid open for the wood to catch properly which would the bring the temps down.

I havent cut anything yet but may add an air inlet somewhere unless i get advised against it.
 
smaller coals falling through. Two things
1) When you were blowing on the firebox to get the new stick lit, did you happen to notice how full the area below your fire grate was? If it was full, did you try cleaning it out to see if air flow improved?
2) I realize what I am about to suggest will probably sound counterintuitive, but the 1" fire grate spacing might be a big part of the problem.
Minus any sort of mechanical agitation, as your burn progresses, ash will tend to bridge on the top of the fire grate effectively blocking the fresh air from reaching the embers.

Before you fire up the cutting wheel, please run one more test burn just like the last one.....only this time when it gets to the point you are having a hard time getting a new stick to light, use a sturdy rod of some sort to reach through the air inlet and bang on the bottom of the fire grate. The shaking action will knock any bridged ash down, and you should see an immediate improvement in the fire due to the increased air flow. If this plays out like I think it will, you will need to find some grating with larger openings or build something out of rod and/or bar stock. This was a lesson I learned the hard way many years ago during one of my early builds.
 
smaller coals falling through. Two things
1) When you were blowing on the firebox to get the new stick lit, did you happen to notice how full the area below your fire grate was? If it was full, did you try cleaning it out to see if air flow improved?
2) I realize what I am about to suggest will probably sound counterintuitive, but the 1" fire grate spacing might be a big part of the problem.
Minus any sort of mechanical agitation, as your burn progresses, ash will tend to bridge on the top of the fire grate effectively blocking the fresh air from reaching the embers.

Before you fire up the cutting wheel, please run one more test burn just like the last one.....only this time when it gets to the point you are having a hard time getting a new stick to light, use a sturdy rod of some sort to reach through the air inlet and bang on the bottom of the fire grate. The shaking action will knock any bridged ash down, and you should see an immediate improvement in the fire due to the increased air flow. If this plays out like I think it will, you will need to find some grating with larger openings or build something out of rod and/or bar stock. This was a lesson I learned the hard way many years ago during one of my early builds.

Hi, every now and again i was poking into the inlet and scraping out the ash although there was an air gan beneath the grate, there were small glowing coals as well that were falling through and thats why i thought that i may need a smaller mesh grate to keep the coal bed above.
As for blowing on the coals i did this through the top lid. The first ever cook that i did i was able to keep the temp at 230℉ ish with a bigger fire but closing the input vent a little.
I will do another burn in the week sometime do you think another low down air hole would help?
 
The total airflow is going to be limited by the chimney if it is the same size as the intake. A second intake may help with air distribution but won't increase the total amount of air going through the firebox. If you have enough air to run at 480, you have enough to run at smoking temps.

If you are having a hard time maintaining coals, that could be overly dry wood, or too much falling through the grate, or simply part of the learning curve. You can lay another layer of mesh across the grate and then just watch for them getting blocked with ash. I would also suggest looking for wood that was cut and split between 3 and 12 months ago.
 
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The total airflow is going to be limited by the chimney if it is the same size as the intake. A second intake may help with air distribution but won't increase the total amount of air going through the firebox. If you have enough air to run at 480, you have enough to run at smoking temps.

If you are having a hard time maintaining coals, that could be overly dry wood, or too much falling through the grate, or simply part of the learning curve. You can lay another layer of mesh across the grate and then just watch for them getting blocked with ash. I would also suggest looking for wood that was cut and split between 3 and 12 months ago.

What would stop the coals dropping through the mesh? I know that in the US a lot of people use expanded steel but its harderto find here or too expensive. What do you most people have as a grate?
 
Hey Blondy,

Those small coals falling through the grate are not really producing all that much heat. (Small surface area, limited fuel left to burn). Controlling the burn on top of the grate is going to get you there. There seems to be a lot of advise about the wood you are burning...so for the sake of consistency perhaps you should try a burn with some nice fresh, dust free lump charcoal. If lump burns steady and clean, you will need to focus on your current wood pike. If during the lump burn, the same issues persist, we will keep looking at the mechanical systems. Just out of curiosity, what are you using to get your fire started? Personally, I use a propane torch (either small plumbers model or a full out weed burner depending on my mood and sense of urgency). Highly seasoned, unsplit, bark on chunks can be a bear to start even in something that breathes as freely as a fire pit. Sometimes I will cheat a bit and use a leafblower or air compressor to speed things along.
Don't despair, you will eventually figure out most of the quirks and be driving the neighborhood crazy with the smell of finely smoked food.
 
Hey Blondy,

Those small coals falling through the grate are not really producing all that much heat. (Small surface area, limited fuel left to burn). Controlling the burn on top of the grate is going to get you there. There seems to be a lot of advise about the wood you are burning...so for the sake of consistency perhaps you should try a burn with some nice fresh, dust free lump charcoal. If lump burns steady and clean, you will need to focus on your current wood pike. If during the lump burn, the same issues persist, we will keep looking at the mechanical systems. Just out of curiosity, what are you using to get your fire started? Personally, I use a propane torch (either small plumbers model or a full out weed burner depending on my mood and sense of urgency). Highly seasoned, unsplit, bark on chunks can be a bear to start even in something that breathes as freely as a fire pit. Sometimes I will cheat a bit and use a leafblower or air compressor to speed things along.
Don't despair, you will eventually figure out most of the quirks and be driving the neighborhood crazy with the smell of finely smoked food.

To start the fire i fill a chimnet with briquets and stuff some rolled up newspaper under and light with a blow torch, then when going well tip it into the firebox and add se chunks of wood.
But i will try just a lumpwood fire next time and go from there.
 
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