New RF smoker design/build_help needed

[Back9Q]

Now that the Labor Day hog cook is finished its time to start the new RF smoker design and build and could use a few suggestions/comments on plan so far

I want to build something aesthetically pleasing that will last 15-20 years. I am not a fan of propane tank builds. I know perform well but looks wise just not for me. Cook chamber is going to be 24x48.

FB- this one is pretty much set in stone. Will be square FB with 2” insulation and a front loader like the Outlaw. Will also have air damper on bottom. Depending on what I can get or have to purchase the inside will be 1/4” or 1/2” and a 1/4” outside

Frame-3/16” angle with golf cart wheels. Steering will be by tie rod and steering knuckles. Not a fan of wagon wheel method

Cook chamber- initial plan was to use 24” pipe with 3/8” sidewall. This was chosen as it is what my work uses. Unfortunately I may not be able to get my hands on a scrap piece for a long time. I have been quoted an insane amount for pipe from retailer so I would be left finding on FB matketplace etc. this lead me to looking at building cabinet style. I have cooked on myron smoker before and liked the cabinet style and could make it an offset but here is thoughts/concerns.

-any issues with airflow through square CC vs round

-I am not a fan of such wide frame you see on this style typically. Instead of going down on each corner I would rather keep closer to center so as to not make it look so big

-this is more aesthetic but dont want a massive box. I would need your assistance on height of chamber if planned on two racks and enough space underneath for plate and FB entry. One thing I dont want is a smoker that looks like it has skipped leg day at the gym for last 10years also (see below). Other option is to add small storage similar to below

-golf cart wheel location-one pair will be on outside edge of CC. Other I am debating underneath right side of CC or under outside of FB. FB may be difficult with front load option. Most I see wheels are under far left and far right

-Will be insulated with 1” insulation. Would a 1/4” inner chamber and 1/8” outer be sufficient to save weight/cost or do both need 1/4”?

- recessed doors similar to pitmaker vault or doors on outside like Myron

-what is best height for front shelf?


I like this look but dont need a stereo. Would add second storage area. Also wheel under FB wouldnt work with a front loader. CC here may be a touch tall for my liking.

Here is smoker looks like skipped leg day IMO. If no storage under CC would need figure out way make this look more beefy

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[Smoke on Badger Mountain]

I’ve never built and RF but I have built several traditional flow offsets with rectangular cook chambers and I have had zero issues with airflow in those. Let’s bump this back to the top and see if someone has better information for you. Good luck and have fun!

 

[Back9Q]

If using Feldon calculator is it ok to have a smaller FB if it is insulated? If so what percentage is acceptable? 80,85,90,etc


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[Smoke on Badger Mountain]

Sorry no expert responses yet. I know that this will probably come back to bite me, but I don't feel like Feldon's is the holy grail of smoker dimensions. I've had some that were over sized and some that were undersized according to that math. And have not noticed a huge difference. They all worked. My current offset by the numbers has a fire box that is 123% of reccomended size and it can put out WAY more heat than I need. Even in the snow. My FB is 1/2" steel non insulated.

Getting back to the draft question I have a pic of mine that cam maybe give you an idea. The only round part of the rig is the stack. FB and CC are square/rectangle.

Pic and a short video.

This is on startup (one of the only times you can get a smoke pic) You can see the tight pattern around the stack and the height.

Here is a short clip smoking some bacon last year. It's a small fire because I'm trying to keep the heat down. but you can see that its still pulling pretty hard even with a small fire.

I'm sorry don't have any great advise for you but I can share my experiences. Hope this can help. Or may be a pro builder will weigh in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJjHrXnJf1M

 

[Back9Q]

Thanks

Im not too concerned with slightly smaller box. Issue running into now is looks like I will need to do square body build. This drastically increases pricing of metal. Would 1/8” inside and out of main cook chamber hold up for many years? FB will be 1/4” inside and out and RF plate will be 1/4”. This is roughly $400 in savings vs 1/4” inside CC which is enough money for nice set of wheels

Im going to start doing rough sketch using Myron’s 48” H20 as baseline

Lastly, any issue with FB being on left side of cook chamber? Almost all I have seen is on right


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[Smoke on Badger Mountain]

Thanks

Im not too concerned with slightly smaller box. Issue running into now is looks like I will need to do square body build. This drastically increases pricing of metal. Would 1/8” inside and out of main cook chamber hold up for many years? FB will be 1/4” inside and out and RF plate will be 1/4”. This is roughly $400 in savings vs 1/4” inside CC which is enough money for nice set of wheels

My first offset build was 1/8" on the CC it was showing no signs of slowing down after 6 years when I took it apart. You say "inside and out" of the cook chamber. Maybe I missed this in the OP. Are you planing on insulating the cook chamber? That is probably something I would stay away from. You could have a very hard time keeping the temps low enough with the size of fires that you need to burn to run clean in an offset.


Im going to start doing rough sketch using Myron’s 48” H20 as baseline

Lastly, any issue with FB being on left side of cook chamber? Almost all I have seen is on right

It's gonna flow the same either way.

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Hope that helps.

 

[Back9Q]

Yes planning to insulated if I square design. I typically run 275 but keep 225-250 on hogs.

One thing I found on offset now is running mini split as hot as possible maintains my low temps. Not sire if will need adjusted with an insulated chamber


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[Smoke on Badger Mountain]

I’ve heard on here and other sources to stay away from insulting the CC. I’ve never seen one in person not have I talked with anyone who has cooked with one. But trying new things can be fun. Out of curiosity why do you want to insulate the CC? It would seem that most pit builders don’t see the need to. Offsets produce a lot of heat. Especially with insulated fire boxes. I have no problem running mine 52x24 cc at 300 when it’s in the teens outside. I’m certainly not saying don’t do it. I’m just trying to wrap my mind around it. Understand the needs and thoughts. If you are comparing this proposed build to a longhorn it’s going to produce way more heat IMO. Whatever you come up with I’m sure it will be neat. It’s always fun to have a custom build that what you really want.

 

[Back9Q]

I have used a few insulated CC with great success. None were offset but Myron smoker I think is as close as non offset insulated stick burner you can get.

If I do go with square box to me really no reason not to insulate it IMO. Especially if I go with 1/8” as it will lose a lot of heat.


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[Smoke on Badger Mountain]

I’m excited to see what you end up with

 

[Back9Q]

Looking at location it would sit the square box would not be feasible. This leaves me with traditional pipe offset style

If I cant get hands on pipe from work I will use propane tank and cut off ends so it gives the flat side look. How do you determine wall thickness of the tanks? Want to make sure get something at least 1/8”

Now issue is do I got traditional or RF. If go RF (prefer) FB has to be on left and I hate that look. If go traditional what is temp differences on main grate with the FB opening at grate level (outlaw,Jambo,etc?) 85% of these cooks will be individual meats but one of main reasons this being built is for whole hogs. Dont want 100f difference right to left

Lastly I found the below on FB marketplace. 14.5x14.5 plate 3/8” thick. I will fill in hole with flat bar and just weld puddle on small round hole. I am getting 14 of them for about 1/4 price of what it would cost at a retailer. Figured be worth the extra time filling everything in and now I have inner and outer FB as well as RF plate if it is needed

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[Smoke on Badger Mountain]

So in my experience I have not seen a large propane tank or other pressure vessel that was less than 3/16" think so you should be ok there. I am rather curious about the rig not fitting in your space if it were rectangular vs. round. A 24" pipe take up the same hight and depth that a 24" square sided object take up and the length is whatever you cut it to. Yes, you loose overall volume and if the sides of where you are using it are curved or angled you could fit a cylinder where you may not be able to fit a rectangle. So the space required, is that for storage or use? Forgive me for not understanding but I'm very visual when it come to spaces.

The most temp variance I get from end to end over 52" is 25 degrees. That being said my bottom plate of my cook chamber is 1/2" thick. And it help keep an even heat. Also, my FB opening is below the lower grate and there is a deflector as well. I had a 31lb pig in it in July (lots of room left over) with no problems. My racks pull out so I did remove the rack half way through the cook and side it back in.

Sweet deal on the steel.

 

[Back9Q]

Plan would have been about a 36” tall box by 24” deep. Physically it would have fit but the bulkiness of it wouldnt look right in space. This is being kept at parents house since that is the gathering place for whole family and momma would have said no lol.

What cooker do you have? I have read with heat entering up at grate level you get pretty even temps but how is smoke flavor close to FB? Seems like all smoke and heat would be at top


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[Smoke on Badger Mountain]

Plan would have been about a 36” tall box by 24” deep. Physically it would have fit but the bulkiness of it wouldnt look right in space. This is being kept at parents house since that is the gathering place for whole family and momma would have said no lol.

What cooker do you have? I have read with heat entering up at grate level you get pretty even temps but how is smoke flavor close to FB? Seems like all smoke and heat would be at top


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I built my offset. So no brand. The FB is 24x24x24 but the cook chamber actually sits 4" into the FB. The CC is 24x24x52 and the lower grate sits 8' above the bottom and the upper 10" above that one. bottom of the door sits just below the lower grate. door opens vertically and 1/3 back from the front. The door is open in my avatar. the left end has a collector that is 20" across with a 8" diameter stack. I have a thread that covers most of the build here https://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=278269
It looks slightly different now (no outboard wheels) but it's getting trailer mounted next week.

 

[Back9Q]

Nice. I think traditional flow would work for me just concerned with whole hog cooks

Anyone know difference in steel hardness between 430 stainless and reg carbon steel. For instance if you took piece of 1/8” carbon steel what in SS would be equivalent? Wondering if 14 gauge 430 SS is to thin for outside of a 2” insulated FB

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[Back9Q]

Man trying to gather all this material off marketplace and craigslist is a PIA but def much better than retail costs. May have a line on 24x48 pipe but wont know for few days

In regards to the dampers inside exhaust stack how is resistance applied to it maintains a certain opening and gravity doesnt pull it where it naturally wants to go. Thought a spring keeping pressure would work. Wish I knew how Outlaw did theirs. Anyone have input?


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[oldgfbbq]

not great welding but.....

Hi Back9Q,
Here is what I did with a propane tank for my first smoker build. I have no metalworking skills and a friend welded the firebox to the cooking chamber, but I cut and welded the remainder. My thought was to learn on this one, and remake one later after gaining experience cooking with this.

I have been happy with the metal thickness in all circumstances except overnight cooks between Nov 1 - March 31 in Western Mass. The cook chamber is about 29 x 35, + or - half inch. I didn't have a piece of pipe to make a smoke stack, so I used a piece of stove pipe with a damper built in. The only additions after initial build were tuning plates/baffle and an air blower. I've been cooking on it since 2006 and too lazy to do it again. I used a MIG welder and "Saws All" from Harbor Freight as primary tools.


Rather than rebuild with new parts, I have considered replacing fire box sitting lower to ground an possibly insulated. But the blower has overcome most shortcomings of my "fire box".


Hope it helps or gives you some ideas.


G-man

 

[Smoke on Badger Mountain]

Man trying to gather all this material off marketplace and craigslist is a PIA but def much better than retail costs. May have a line on 24x48 pipe but wont know for few days

In regards to the dampers inside exhaust stack how is resistance applied to it maintains a certain opening and gravity doesnt pull it where it naturally wants to go. Thought a spring keeping pressure would work. Wish I knew how Outlaw did theirs. Anyone have input?


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Never seen an outlaw in person. I have no idea how they do the dampers. But I've never seen or heard of a spring loaded damper in a stack before. If you had enough bolt tension on the pivot of our damper it would stay in place just fine unless you were moving the rig while cooking. Most pits only have a flap on top or if a really long stack one that is part way up or a handle that was reachable. Personally I have not use for a damper on the stack. Harder to burn a clean fire with restrictions on the exhaust side. I control all my air flow with the intake. Also, I went away from intake vents along time ago and just use the FB door.

 

[Back9Q]

Doing some research tonight mainly on the FB to CC opening high at grate level like the Jambo and Outlaws. Are there any other pita that follow same design?

One thing I noticed on Jambo facebook page is there is a baffle over the FB entry that wasnt there in 2018 models. Is there a benefit of this plate being there in regards to temp differences or air flow?

One thing similar between jambo and outlaw is both FB entries take up roughly 80% of CC width. If using a 24”CC I think 2.5” on each side is sufficient

Outlaw opening

Now for angle inside FB going into CC. Jambo appears to have straight wall going all the way up then angle into FB. Outlaw angle starts pretty low in FB and into CC. Wonder if this is due to front loading design or airflow and is a benefit

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[Back9Q]

If using 3/8” for inner shell of FB is 1/8” acceptable for outer with 2” insulation between. Having hard time finding 1/4”


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