KCBS Team of Year bonus points drops again to 25 teams
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DR
Take a breath!
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Where can we read Travis's post to Mike?
GrillBillie_D
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It was on Facebook in response to Mike Peters poll he put up asking people to choose what they wanted the TOY to be. Anyways, here is what he posted:
My opinion has not changed. 25 teams fixes nothing. There is no reason most contests cannot get 35 teams if it is a good contest. What incentive are you giving contests to make them any better??? We have to always improve as cooks to try and win why should contests not have to do the same thing? Maybe KCBS should address how many contests are booked on the same weekend in that area as to why they cannot get teams??? You should get more points for cooking a larger contest. Nothing says you cant go cook a smaller contest if it is what you want to do. The moving the scoring to 10 point separation in places is also dumb. This will make for so many more ties. The hardest thing to do in BBQ is to win and they are trying to take the significance of that away. I also think no matter what the tiebreaker for TOY should be overall finishes. It wouldnt change anything most times but if anybody thinks that a TOY should not look at the 11th, 12th GC and so on as it is currently if needed is also crap. You are basically saying after 10 GC's it doesnt matter as long as you do good in categories???? Once again the hardest thing to do in BBQ is to win so why the hell would that not be the deciding factor. Use the data for a strength of schedule, do something useful with it. Sitting in a meeting and having somebody bring up an idea and to change it without looking at the data and what it could affect is just idiotic.
Before Strength of Schedule becomes the next savior of comp BBQ can someone explain to me how that will be done. In principle I think it's great. We aren't talking about a 32 team league, with set divisions and conferences. We are talking about KCBS with open contests, and teams that aren't tracked which impact each and every contest. We don't have a set schedule, etc.
Clearly somebody has thought about it, and/or discussed it. Beyond a talking point, what's the plan?
Clearly somebody has thought about it, and/or discussed it. Beyond a talking point, what's the plan?
What's the final answer? Any word yet?
gettinbasted
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Are you kidding me????
Roast Beast
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That's sort of what I was attempting to show above. So far around 60 teams have cooked more than 20 contests. Can't imagine a team contending for TOY with fewer cooks than that. That group does represent proportionally more contest entries than its number of votes in a KCBS election, although solid data to calculate that precisely seems to be unavailable to the public.
Ok, 60 teams cook more than 20 contests...of those 60, how many are in contention for ToY? How many are actually chasing points and picking contests based on points available?
Roast Beast
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No idea. :thumb:
bigdogphin
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They should also make a motion to review rule changes after the next year to revisit the topic and to make sure that the rule change had the intended results. It is to easy to set and forget.
CBQ
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I would say it's of interest to more teams than that.
In 2008 (when KCBS started posting all the teams) we were 949th. We have tried to improve every year, and the TOY standings are a great way to track ourselves against our peers.
We remember breaking the top 100 for the first time.
We remember getting our first trophy for a top 25 category at the end of the year.
We remember how we had one category spend a couple of months in the top 10 this year before falling back to earth.
Today we are 46th overall with 3 of 4 categories in the top 50, one in the top 25. We aren't a top 5 team contending to win it all, but I feel that our TOY standing and year over year improvement is a reflection of our long BBQ journey of practices, contests, classes, and hard work. (and...being the most dangerous team in barbecue...a few trips to the ER :becky: )
There is more to BBQ than winning, to be sure. We have made a lot of friends and had a great time along the way. At the same time, we have put a lot of money into this crazy hobby, and it's nice to see we have made something of it.
TOY is not only important to the top 5.
(I also think the NEBS/Empire State/MABA system of assigning points based on the percentage of teams that you beat vs. arbitrary points has some merit to it, but I'm not sure I would want to see KCBS scoring change too much.)
CBQ
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We cooked 26, and part of the reason we extended our season and cooked so many was to maintain our standing. We had fairly poor results on our road trip, so it didn't work :becky: but TOY was a factor in our decision making, even though we not even close to winning it.
Gowan
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This idea of a yardstick to measure yourself by is a universal concern for all teams, big and small.
The trick is to find a measure that is relevant to your team, one where you can see the impact of your efforts. Using the ruler metaphor, the KCBS ToTY is calibrated in miles. To the team that does 3-4 events each year this scale is not useful, as they only see their position move in tiny increments from year to year. Who celebrates moving up from number 752 to 604th place?
Hence the creation of a variety of rules with a smaller scale, be they regional (Rocky Mountain BBQ Association), statewide (Georgia BBQ Championship) or just a few contests close together (i.e. various "Triple Crown" series). As I see it, the challenge for KCBS is how to create some kind of system that will be of interest to all teams, and that's a tall order.
I think it would have to be something along the lines of bracket racing or bowling where the participants are measured against their own past performance via some type of handicapping system.
It's not going to be easy, that's for sure. Getting such a diverse membership to agree on any system will be practically impossible.
Smoke'n Ice
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Here is an idea for points of the TOY. Shoot at it or me, no big deal, but it might be a start!!
Each team competing receives points based on finish and there is no cap on the number of competitions entered and accumulated. There are no points awarded for a finish outside of the top ten. In addition, a separate score is given for strength of schedule (SOS) and maintained in a separate data base which is used for breaking any ties. Each and every team will accumulate these points just by being there, competing and not being DQ'd.
If at the end of season, teams are tied for placement based on accumulated total points in TOY standing --
1. First tie breaker is total SOS points
2. Second tie breakeris number of 10 point SOS awards
3. Third tie breaker is number of 9 point SOS awards
4. Fourth …….
5. Fifth ……….
6. Sixth ……….
7. Seventh ….
8. Eighth …….
9. Ninth ……..
10. Tenth …….
If after all this, they are still tied, then they are equal cooks and should share equally, the reward for the place they are tied and the next place down and get a trophy (preferably not one that was split in half).
This woud require a separate data base to be maintained for each team to accumulate and keep separate their SOS points.
Each team competing receives points based on finish and there is no cap on the number of competitions entered and accumulated. There are no points awarded for a finish outside of the top ten. In addition, a separate score is given for strength of schedule (SOS) and maintained in a separate data base which is used for breaking any ties. Each and every team will accumulate these points just by being there, competing and not being DQ'd.
If at the end of season, teams are tied for placement based on accumulated total points in TOY standing --
1. First tie breaker is total SOS points
2. Second tie breakeris number of 10 point SOS awards
3. Third tie breaker is number of 9 point SOS awards
4. Fourth …….
5. Fifth ……….
6. Sixth ……….
7. Seventh ….
8. Eighth …….
9. Ninth ……..
10. Tenth …….
If after all this, they are still tied, then they are equal cooks and should share equally, the reward for the place they are tied and the next place down and get a trophy (preferably not one that was split in half).
This woud require a separate data base to be maintained for each team to accumulate and keep separate their SOS points.
cpw
Babbling Farker
That's a crazy low percentage.
Roast Beast
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So 4% is what this is all about? Amazing. Pssssttt hey board, we got bigger fish to fry than worry about this crap.
Sterling, does your system say how many of the 30 teams rhat cooked 25+ contests are in the top 25 overall? I'd live to see where they all shake out the overall for all 4 categories. That would be even more telling of who gets the pie and how many contests are needed for the OA.
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