Chicken Skin - To Braise or not to Braise

[RogueWave]

So I've read a pile on the subject at the forums here and taken a lot of notes. AND cooked a LOT of chicken.

Some have mentioned that the steaming action from a covered pan with liquid in the bottom will tenderize the skin and make it bite-through. I've been working on a method for that with the chicken sitting on a rack just above the liquid, but I'm not having a lot of luck.

I was hoping not to have to braise because it would seem you would lose a fair amount of rub that way and I've got the flavor right where I want it. And it seems odd to me that, with the skin side up, the entire skin is not getting fully braised. But if it works, it works, I suppose.

I've been dry brining overnight with salt on the outside of both sides.

I've tried the full gamut from the cheap stuff to the organic.

My next attempt today is just going to be higher heat, no steam. Like 325 - 350. I'm using Rub's rub, which is pretty sugary, so I'm a little concerned about burning it, but I guess we'll see.

Or should I just give up and braise the lower halves of them in butter or chicken stock?

 

[Hoss]

Google Kent Rollins stuffed grilled chicken thighs.He don’t braise em,he boils em,just for a few minutes.

 

[Curt.P]

Are you looking for bite-through or crispy?

 

[SmoothBoarBBQ]

You're 50% of the way there with the salt brine. This will sound odd but the next step is to pour boiling hot water over the thighs. I put them on a rack which hangs over the sink and pour boiling water directly of the skin side. This does 2 things : it washes off the excess salt from the dry brine, and it melts some of the fat on the underside of the skin.

Here's a video showing the technique...it is very common for people cooking Asian cuisine to take a whole chicken and dunk it in boiling water for roughly 30 seconds before it goes into the roasting oven.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCtzbvCLi2s

From here I go directly back into the refrigerator to cool off...usually put them in a tray with some paper towels on the bottom to soak up any excess moisture. From here I'll apply my rub and smoke them at 250° until I hit 180-185° internal temp. They come out with nice, crispy, bite-through skin every time. I do this for my BBQ food truck and I have to hot-hold everything and I usually do that in pans. But with chicken I hot hold it in my smoker (insulated cabinet smoker) where I keep the temp at about 165°. This keeps the skin from soaking up any moisture like you'd get if you set it in a pan. So I'll reach into the smoker about every 30 minutes during my vending service and fill up a try which goes into my water table.

I have NEVER tried braising chicken with skin on it, but I do use that method for boneless-skinless chicken thighs. I'll put them in a pan, rub them down, add some margarine, and them smoke them until they get a good color. Then I'll foil over the pan and the chicken will essentially braise in its own juices (and the margarine) until the meat is tender enough to turn into pulled chicken.

Edit : I leave the chicken thighs or legs sitting directly on the cooking grates inside the smoker until I am ready to serve them. Re-reading my post and that may have been a bit confusing.

 

[RogueWave]

Are you looking for bite-through or crispy?

Bite-through

I did them at 350 yesterday with no liquid

The skins weren't really rubbery, but they weren't tender. They weren't crispy either. More like dried out and a little tough.

Going to back to some sort of steaming or braising situation next time.

I typically do them in a covered steam pan. It hadn't occurred to me that the steamy air inside might be closer to the temp of the pit than it may be to 212F. And I'm still not 100% positive that's correct, but I'm going to try steaming again at 350 next time and leave one of my Inkbird probes in there available for air temp.

By the way, the meat was awesome! Incredibly juicy! I took the legs and thighs all the way up to about 175 in hopes of rendering the leg tendons. It seems to have worked. Last time I didn't take 'em as high and I had tendon issues.

And these were just basic, Foster Farms. A west coast outfit. Solid, but nothing fancy.

Also...

For some reason the cook took longer than usual. Like almost 3 hours... at 350! And I did very little "lookin'" vs cookin'. I had 3 probes for that job.

It seemed like they stalled at around 160... which, of course, is the standard stall point. I didn't know chicken did that. I figured some rendering must be going on and perhaps I was right.

I do know that there was a major curve. They started off climbing like a rocket. I told the Mrs. I needed to adjust dinner time ahead. But then it ended up being later than originally expected.

 

[RogueWave]

Here's a video showing the technique...it is very common for people cooking Asian cuisine to take a whole chicken and dunk it in boiling water for roughly 30 seconds before it goes into the roasting oven.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCtzbvCLi2s

Thanks for the tip! I'll have to try that sometime.

But I'm not going for crispy in this case. Just bite-through tender without removing the skin and scraping the fat off the underside. Many people around here say they can get tender, bite-through skin without the scraping. Most do by braising in a butter bath in a covered pan. I sort of ASSumed this was fairly well known, I guess.

Perhaps I should have posted this in the competition section.

 

[SmoothBoarBBQ]

Thanks for the tip! I'll have to try that sometime.

But I'm not going for crispy in this case. Just bite-through tender without removing the skin and scraping the fat off the underside. Many people around here say they can get tender, bite-through skin without the scraping. Most do by braising in a butter bath in a covered pan. I sort of ASSumed this was fairly well known, I guess.

Perhaps I should have posted this in the competition section.

That's the whole point of the dry bring + boiling water trick ; to make the skin crispy and bite-through without having to peel it back and scrape away the fat.

For what it's worth a lot of people lie or mislead others when it comes to BBQ. Mike Mills (a BBQ legend both as a restaurateur and competition cook) has a whole section in his book, Peace Love and BBQ, about how people will lie their butts off when it comes to BBQ. People will lie about their recipe, their ingredients, cook times, etc.. I mean people on this forum actually believe that Aaron Franklin uses ONLY basic salt and pepper for his brisket rub. It's not so much that Aaron lies about this but he's definitely "omitting" things such as "seasoned salt" versus "basic salt." It's just the way it is in the cooking world in general and BBQ is no different.

I do KCBS competitions every so often and I hated them simply because of the chicken preparation. It used to take me 2-3 hours to pull back the skin, scrape it, and get it all back together the way I wanted. Now I simply do a good trim and utilize the dry brine + boiling water technique. It takes me roughly 30-45 minutes to do 10-12 thighs for a competition now and it makes the whole thing much more fun.

 

[thirdeye]

When I saw the boiling water tip, it was in a wok that had a tempura rack, so thighs were on the rack and water was spooned over them and fell right back into the wok. I think they did it for duck too.

12 years ago when I started judging BBQ the bite thru skin impressed me as much as anything, and a cook I met online showed me how to remove fat from the skin, so I can do that pretty fast for my backyard thighs. At our first comp I took the lead on chicken, skin was no problem but I still can't nail sizing 6 pieces. :biggrin1: Our early test cooks were all about tenderness and bite thru skin, later we practiced setting the sauce. I actually got tired of chicken practice... and I love chicken.

 

[RogueWave]

That's the whole point of the dry bring + boiling water trick ; to make the skin crispy and bite-through without having to peel it back and scrape away the fat.

OK. I had read in a few places that crispy skin doesn't score as well in KCBS

Perhaps that's part of the misdirection you speak of?

 

[RogueWave]

When I saw the boiling water tip, it was in a wok that had a tempura rack, so thighs were on the rack and water was spooned over them and fell right back into the wok. I think they did it for duck too.

So did you scrape those in the photos? Or use the boiling water program?

 

[SmoothBoarBBQ]

OK. I had read in a few places that crispy skin doesn't score as well in KCBS

Perhaps that's part of the misdirection you speak of?

When the dry brine + boiling water trick is utilized you get bite-through skin which is crispy, but it's not crispy like you would get on a Peking Duck. It's easy to bite through and has a ton of flavor.

I'd say give the technique a try and see if it works out for you. The misdirection was just in general...people usually tend to leave out vital steps either on purpose or accident. We had a brisket thread maybe a month or 2 ago where a lot of us were trying to explain "probe tender" to the person asking the questions. Then we got a lot of people jumping in and saying that we shouldn't bother telling them that and they should just go with time / temp for their first few cooks. I have no idea why they wanted to intentionally sabotage someone just because they are new to cooking brisket. It's almost like they wanted to ensure the poster ruined a few briskets first...almost like a hazing experience or "right of passage." It was silly, but it was flagrant and completely unnecessary for them to purposefully only give out minimal information.

Good luck with your chicken skin. If you are talking specifically about competition there's a lot more experienced posters in the Competition sub-forum. I know the popular thing now is to do chicken drumsticks rather than thighs as they are super easy and the skin doesn't require much work.

 

[Mrhdvrod]

I always just sprinkle some baking powder on the skin (very light coat), seems to make them bite through, no braising, smoked right on the rack, and I do chicken at 350

 

[darita]

I love chicken skin when it's done right and worked years to get good skin. Finally, I ran across the boiling water trick, which was modified from an age old Peking duck recipe. Chinese chefs dunk the entire bird in boiling water to achieve good skin. I found it much easier to simply pour boiling water over the skin prior to seasoning. Just before the seasoned bird goes in the cooker, I spray the skin with Pam. The science is that the boiling water helps to break down the protein bonds that prevent the skin from rendering. Anyways, couple the use of boiling water and Pam with a cook temp of at least 325* and your skin will come out great. Your cooker may require a higher temp, but don't go lower. Since discovering this technique, I've never had rubbery skin. I use this on wings, thighs, whole rotisserie chicken, as well as turkey. Good luck and post results.

 

[RogueWave]

I'd say give the technique a try and see if it works out for you.

I know the popular thing now is to do chicken drumsticks rather than thighs as they are super easy and the skin doesn't require much work.

Yeah, it seems like drums may be a bit regional, but I started doing both for each cook a little while back. They are definitely easier.

And yeah... chicken is cheap. And the family loves chicken. I'll definitely give it a try. And maybe one trial with the addition of the steam pan with the hope that the boiling water will do its trick and the steam will keep the skins soft rather than crispy. Though I do, personally like the idea of a little crisp on the skin.

Thanks again!

 

[RogueWave]

I always just sprinkle some baking powder on the skin (very light coat), seems to make them bite through, no braising, smoked right on the rack, and I do chicken at 350

Thanks!

I messed around with that and found the mayo technique to be a little better. But that was awhile back and I may not have done them at 350.

 

[RogueWave]

Since discovering this technique, I've never had rubbery skin. I use this on wings, thighs, whole rotisserie chicken, as well as turkey. Good luck and post results.

Yeah, I have a Pit Boss 5 Series, cabinet pellet pooper. No 325 setting, but I can get it to run at a steady 350, so I'm definitely going to be doing all my cooks at that temp.


Thanks!

 

[thirdeye]

So did you scrape those in the photos? Or use the boiling water program?

I use a fillet knife, I seem to be faster. Not the greatest quality but here is a short video of me in action. :mrgreen:

https://youtu.be/T_6KT4K1xh4

 

[RogueWave]

I use a fillet knife, I seem to be faster. Not the greatest quality but here is a short video of me in action. :mrgreen:

https://youtu.be/T_6KT4K1xh4

Very nicely done!

 

[darita]

Yeah, I have a Pit Boss 5 Series, cabinet pellet pooper. No 325 setting, but I can get it to run at a steady 350, so I'm definitely going to be doing all my cooks at that temp.


Thanks!

Every cooker will require different cook temps. For my MAK and MB560, 325 is the sweet spot. Also, try not to open the lid, as you'll lose the heat and rendering.

 

[jasonjax]

I hate chicken prep so much I went with legs in a butter bath only. Took a 1st place and have placed well a few times with that method. If you stay thighs I think you pretty much have to scrape IMHO.