Brisket finish in the 180's??? Need Help....Again.....

[Curly Tails]

Last year at a comp in GA, I was talking to Tuffy Stone of Cool Smoke and Bub-Ba-Q walked up after turning in his brisket and said he took his brisket to 214 and it was still not finished.
I believe that each piece of meat renders differently, We do check for the butter feel at around 190 but most of the times it is finished closer to 205-208. But not everytime. Lately we have had better luck with Sams club briskets over SRF. For some reason we just keep getting crappy briskets from SNF. However we will give them another try next weekend.

 

[boogiesnap]

Okay thats a good gauge to wrap but whats the internal temp when wrapping. Your ending condition may be caused from what your doing way before you get done. If the meat is to high of temp and already stated to dry out or is dried out your ending product will be dry.

agreed, but, if a 12# brisket is dry after only 5 hours on the cooker (not running hot and fast), we're pretty much farked no matter what. i don't see what could have been done to prevent THAT.

if i recall, it's typically 140-170* after @ 5 hours.

to the OP. i haven't tried that super duper lo n slow either. maybe that's the ticket?

but i know for a fact there are cooks that go hot and fast at comps with great success. so i don't know. smother it in turkey gravy?

 

[Jason TQ]

Last year at a comp in GA, I was talking to Tuffy Stone of Cool Smoke and Bub-Ba-Q walked up after turning in his brisket and said he took his brisket to 214 and it was still not finished.
I believe that each piece of meat renders differently, We do check for the butter feel at around 190 but most of the times it is finished closer to 205-208. But not everytime. Lately we have had better luck with Sams club briskets over SRF. For some reason we just keep getting crappy briskets from SNF. However we will give them another try next weekend.

I heard Tuffy gets Waygu and that they finish higher and are also delicious . For the holiday's I was thinking of giving one a whirl and see what happens. I'd hate to screw up an expensive piece of meat like that though :icon_blush:.

 

[CBQ]

We use Waygu on occasion, but have also gotten good results with a random RD brisket. The RD brisket will need a couple more hours to cook, but it will get there.

Sticking your delicate flat in a Cambro stuffed full of pork butts will cause problems. If you are taking your big meats off early and resting them for 6 hours, the heat from the other meats is going to keep cooking your brisket into shoe leather. Todd is right about the cooling.

The other question is cooking temp. Someone mentioned 275? I would suggest that 210-230 is low and slow, and 300-350 is hot and fast. Anything in the middle is: dry brisket. The heat is high enough to dry the meat out faster, but not hot enough to finish the cook in a short period of time.

 

[Jason TQ]

We use Waygu on occasion, but have also gotten good results with a random RD brisket. The RD brisket will need a couple more hours to cook, but it will get there.

Sticking your delicate flat in a Cambro stuffed full of pork butts will cause problems. If you are taking your big meats off early and resting them for 6 hours, the heat from the other meats is going to keep cooking your brisket into shoe leather. Todd is right about the cooling.

The other question is cooking temp. Someone mentioned 275? I would suggest that 210-230 is low and slow, and 300-350 is hot and fast. Anything in the middle is: dry brisket. The heat is high enough to dry the meat out faster, but not hot enough to finish the cook in a short period of time.

Another good point that I didn't think about is that my flat does not only go into a cooler wrapped up tight, but also in the same cooler as my butts. Now I don't think I have ever had them rest for more than 2hrs, but that additional heat from the butts could be over doing it as well. I might have a separate rest cooker for the brisket. Also I have been doing low and slow recently around 225 and the results are slightly better.

 

[FatBoyz]

i belive in my heart that yoru brisket makes the differance. my scores are way up since wygoo came into my life... like how i spell wygoo lol

 

[boogiesnap]

my "accountant" isn't going to be happy about this....wagyoo thingie.

 

[luckyduk]

You do not need waygu to score consistently, people like waygu just for the fact when you order one they are more CONSISTENT. I buy many a cases of brisket to find enough suitable for contests.
With that being said cook and cool before putting in cambro

 

[INmitch]

I cook wagyu only because I can't find any good angus around here. I cook @ 250, wrap @ 160. I'll go one step further. One end of the flat will finish sooner than the other. I always take a slice from each end to see whats best. And yes trust your butcher. Take Him & Todds class. It's made me a lot of $ this year on brisket.:thumb:

 

[Plowboy]

You do not need waygu to score consistently, people like waygu just for the fact when you order one they are more CONSISTENT. I buy many a cases of brisket to find enough suitable for contests.
With that being said cook and cool before putting in cambro

Actually, cooling before the Cambro depends on how long you intend to hold it. Total mass in the cambro also matters.

I had a student contact me about their pork not turning out like mine yet they were doing every step I taught them. Upon further discussion, found out they cooked four butts where I only cook two. Doubling the mass of 196 degree pork in the Cambro affects how long it takes for the temps to come down. Their pork continued to cook at higher temps than mine because of the extra mass.

Thinking as much about what you are doing after the cook is as important as prep and the cooking process itself.

InMitch - You guys have had a great year including Sam's Club and the Royal. Nice job.

 

[luckyduk]

Actually, cooling before the Cambro depends on how long you intend to hold it. Total mass in the cambro also matters.

I had a student contact me about their pork not turning out like mine yet they were doing every step I taught them. Upon further discussion, found out they cooked four butts where I only cook two. Doubling the mass of 196 degree pork in the Cambro affects how long it takes for the temps to come down. Their pork continued to cook at higher temps than mind because of the extra mass.

Thinking as much about what you are doing after the cook is as imporant as prep and the cooking process itself.

InMitch - You guys have had a great year including Sam's Club and the Royal. Nice job.

Very true!

Briskets in one cambro, butts in the other

 

[mclancey]

So would it be a good idea to cook them until you think they are done, vent them in foil, stick a probe in, and then wrap and cambro when it hits about 155?

 

[Plowboy]

I've had great brisket at 215, temp means nothing

I disagree.

Yes, a 215 brisket and a 185 brisket can both be good. Doesn't mean that temp means nothing when cooking. But, to your point, it isn't everything.

A 215 brisket needs to cool faster or not be held long. A 215 brisket may need to be removed for the foil and set on the counter for 10-20 minutes. I wouldn't do that to a 185 brisket, though. Holding a 185 brisket longer could turn out just like the 215 one.

So, it isn't that temp means nothing. Temp is a great indicator of where you are at. A better statement is that temp isn't everything.

 

[Plowboy]

One other topic that has been discussed here is aging. An aged brisket is going to cook differently and yield to tenderness differently than a non-aged brisket. Aged briskets aren't going to sieze up on you when cooled like non-aged briskets can.

 

[Shiz-Nit]

One other topic that has been discussed here is aging. An aged brisket is going to cook differently and yield to tenderness differently than a non-aged brisket. Aged briskets aren't going to sieze up on you when cooled like non-aged briskets can.

Please explain a little more please. How do I tell if it is aged or not? Besides the sell by date.

 

[boogiesnap]

the only way to know the kill date is to get it off of the packing case.

then track aging at home in cryovac.

 

[boogiesnap]

I disagree.

Yes, a 215 brisket and a 185 brisket can both be good. Doesn't mean that temp means nothing when cooking. But, to your point, it isn't everything.

A 215 brisket needs to cool faster or not be held long. A 215 brisket may need to be removed for the foil and set on the counter for 10-20 minutes. I wouldn't do that to a 185 brisket, though. Holding a 185 briskoes et longer could turn out just like the 215 one.

So, it isn't that temp means nothing. Temp is a great indicator of where you are at. A better statement is that temp isn't everything.

so, if i follow correctly....:roll: always an IF.

cook schedule is laid out. brisket goes on @ X, gets wrapped around Y, and pulled @ Z. then coolered until turn in time.

now, if said brisket is tender on timeISH, are you suggesting it must be vented/cooled to a lower temp IF it came off at a high temp? and conversely, let it stay at a high temp while resting if it was tender at a lower temp?.

both resting periods being the same amount of time.

OR

if it came off at a high temp it cannot be rested long at all and vice versa, must be rested long, for a lower temp finished brisket?

 

[Butcher BBQ]

agreed, but, if a 12# brisket is dry after only 5 hours on the cooker (not running hot and fast), we're pretty much farked no matter what. i don't see what could have been done to prevent THAT.

if i recall, it's typically 140-170* after @ 5 hours.

to the OP. i haven't tried that super duper lo n slow either. maybe that's the ticket?

but i know for a fact there are cooks that go hot and fast at comps with great success. so i don't know. smother it in turkey gravy?

It does make a difference and you can keep it from happening by knowing how beef cooks. Like what temp is the maximum time to keep the moisture in and what temp the meat actually breaks down the connective tissues. Both are different and if you go to long in the smoking cycle the meat has started giving up the internal moisture as to where you can save that moisture and still break down the connective tissue.

That all being said that is why I asked the questions I did. I don't believe it is in the end of your cook or even the type of meat. It is your wrapping temp is to late and your meat has already gave up the internal moisture. If your wrapping at 170 your will be hard pressed to ever get a moist brisket when sliced or even 15 minutes later when the judges taste it.

 

[boogiesnap]

It does make a difference and you can keep it from happening by knowing how beef cooks. Like what temp is the maximum time to keep the moisture in and what temp the meat actually breaks down the connective tissues. Both are different and if you go to long in the smoking cycle the meat has started giving up the internal moisture as to where you can save that moisture and still break down the connective tissue.

That all being said that is why I asked the questions I did. I don't believe it is in the end of your cook or even the type of meat. It is your wrapping temp is to late and your meat has already gave up the internal moisture. If your wrapping at 170 your will be hard pressed to ever get a moist brisket when sliced or even 15 minutes later when the judges taste it.

you've got me perplexed on that one bro.

how would you explain a brisket cook that doesn't wrap, yet still produces a tender, moist product?

 

[Butcher BBQ]

you've got me perplexed on that one bro.

how would you explain a brisket cook that doesn't wrap, yet still produces a tender, moist product?

Tender is easy, cook it till its done, moistness is also easy some meats have enough internal moisture to go thru (marbling) the cook or even the cooking environment. Like a moist cooking chamber or self basting rotisserie unit does the same thing. My FEC 500 with a chamber full self bastes the meat directly under the next and Myron Mixon's cookers use lots of moisture.