As a Judge - Some judges just piss me off

[ModelMaker]

How many times and when was the last time a judges certification has been revoked?
Until KCBS acts upon crappy judges, we'll always have crappy judges.
Should all concerned pressure organizers to keep a list?
I get tired of being lumped in the same sentence as the chicken skin puller.
Ed

 

[bbq.tom]

Other than interrupting the judging process to call out that judge to the Table Captain what should we do? Seriously, I'd like to hear some ideas on this.

I believe that interrupting the process is exactly what should happen - in order to ensure the entries being judged at that table are judged correctly. The offending judge should either start over and judge all the entries correctly, or be replaced on the spot. Unfortunately, the replacement judge will not have untouched entries to judge up to where the process was interrupted. In which case I would think that the offending judge's scores would be thrown out.
Whether the offending judge has his credentials revoked is up to the BOD and not a REP.

 

[Lake Dogs]

What would the teams being judged want? That'll give you the answer. I agree with Tom; stop it right there; nip it in the bud immediately.

 

[ModelMaker]

What would the teams being judged want? That'll give you the answer. I agree with Tom; stop it right there; nip it in the bud immediately.

Here'e a "what should you do", a local Rep was notified after chicken that a 1st time judge had scored lots lower than the rest of the table.
Do you jump on it then or wait to see how he did on ribs? So ribs follows suit and is several points lower. Now if you talk to him and he brings up his pork and brisky score by 3 or 4 points, the first two cooks get hammered and the whole scoring process is affected. Or do you let all 4 meats get scored to his scale to "be fair" to the contest.

In this case, after seeing the rib score be lower the Rep let the newbie continue and had a talk with him after judging.
Thoughts?
Ed

 

[Lake Dogs]

As both a long time judge and a competitor, one who has been screwed by a judges mistake in a sanctioning body that doesn't throw out the lowest score, I'll answer from the competitors perspective: DONT LET IT GO. Not to the next. Address chicken right then. Find out why. Challenge them.

This politically correct nonsense must go! Dont get me wrong, I've never been about the high scores because we're just glad to be here; be critical. But screw ups that potentially cost competitors placement and/or money, should you let this go to the next category? IMHO, No.

 

[Burnt at Both Endz]

No reason to make/let a judge ruin 23 more cooks that day,IMHO.

 

[Lake Dogs]

Many teams put weeks of preparation into this, and then many hundreds of dollars of their own money in it, and work their fannies off. Vacation days, etc.

Judge it critically; judge it fairly, but don't F*** them! If you see a judge fubaring the system, say something. Please!



Personal example:

I had a chili cookoff many years back paying $2,500 first place, $1,000 second place, and $500 third place. I got 4th. All in all I was happy with a nice finish, until I got my score sheet:

10 10 10 10 10 9 1


A one? If that 1 were a 2, I'd been tied for 3rd; a 3 tied for 2nd, a 5 tied for 1st, and a 6 or higher that $2500 was mine... Was that 1 supposed to be a 10 perhaps?

Now, this probably wasn't a judge issue but a score entry issue, but screwed because there was no quality control, no over-sight, no second look verification, etc. I haven't been back. They've asked and asked, and I remind them and say "when you send me the $2,500, I'll be back. Otherwise, kiss my chili.

I've been screwed in BBQ with it documented on comment cards... It's very frustrating...

 

[bbq.tom]

I agree with Hance and BaBE on this. The REP should talk with the low judge immediately after chicken, so as not to hurt other teams. Don't let the action continue in the hopes that it was just a fluke.

 

[Fat Freddy]

A rep tells a team if they have been DQed in a category right away after judging a category. No reason a judge shouldnt be talked to after a category.

 

[DR]

This will never change until there is accountability. No accountability, no disciplinary actions, no change.

 

[Bentley]

Bingo! And if the Promoter truly wants judges who will follow rules, they will address the issue. As you say, they have the power! And need to start exercising it!

If you see this happening in the future, I would suggest speaking with the organizer or ask the reps to speak with him/her. They are the ultimate authority on who gets to judge a specific event.

Eric

 

[SDAR]

The only way I see a low scoring judge...or a high scoring judge on the other hand being "fair or equitable" is a 24 team contest with 6 judges at each table. Other than that you are either screwed or lucky. That is with the way KCBS scores...only hitting one table...IBCA is easier to get past an initial lower scoring table.

 

[Kla8ter]

4 of us went out to judge the AR this year after having cooked in a couple of comps last year. We of course were all judging at different tables (inv, open and sides), but what was interesting was our same observation after...Why do people have coolers here? We all witnessed on more than one occasion judges more interested in taking food home than giving a proper taste. We are all CBJs, one of us had judged several comps and for others of us it was our first comp judging. We were all taken aback by the cooler practice and didn't realize the ongoing controversy until researching after. We spoke briefly with the head of KCBS after and told him how appalled we were by the practice and behavior we observed, but it was a busy time (no reaction). I can say in no uncertain terms coolers and taking food home that you are judging should be completely banned...the behavior is an embarrassment and frankly deligitimizes the judging process. Sorry to stir this pot back up, but after what we all witnessed this isn't even a conversation just something that needs to be handled ASAP!

 

[dmprantz]

The only thing that the KCBS would be able to do would be to strip him of his CBJ status.

They have no authority on who judges or does not judge an event.

It's a shear accident that I even saw this thread, so I apologize for daring to ask a question, but I did find it, and this will gnaw at me if I don’t: Are you sure that KCBS has no control over who judges a competition? They have control over who competes in one. I know they have "suspended" judges for alcohol consumption. Surely these punishments apply to more than just “status,” don’t they?

dmp

 

[Roast Beast]

IMO, if parsley sticks to the meat then it's fair game to be considered part of the product, tasted and scored accordingly. As a cook, I should not expect the judge to have to pick anything off of the product to taste it. In theroy picking off the parsley is no different than removing the chicken skin or even wiping off the suace for that matter. I quit using parsley for this reason.

So if a leaf of lettuce stuck to the bottom side of a piece of chicken, you'd take a bite of the chicken/lettuce combination instead of peeling it off?

 

[Milt2tle]

So if a leaf of lettuce stuck to the bottom side of a piece of chicken, you'd take a bite of the chicken/lettuce combination instead of peeling it off?

Personally, I'd pull off a leaf of lettuce ... but I'd not try to pick off a tiny piece of parsley ... I don't mind eating and judging chicken with a speck of parsley, but I'm going to pass at trying to score lettuce with a hint of chicken.

 

[Pappy Q]

So if a leaf of lettuce stuck to the bottom side of a piece of chicken, you'd take a bite of the chicken/lettuce combination instead of peeling it off?

In theroy, yes. If stuck to the meat, it's fair game to be judged. I doubt it happens but removing the garnish is no different than removing chicken skin in my opinion.

 

[Roast Beast]

In theroy, yes. If stuck to the meat, it's fair game to be judged. I doubt it happens but removing the garnish is no different than removing chicken skin in my opinion.

That seems like a stretch, but I guess it's one more reason for variable scoring. Would you fill out a comment card if the taste of lettuce or parsley caused you to score down?

 

[Icekub]

In theroy, yes. If stuck to the meat, it's fair game to be judged. I doubt it happens but removing the garnish is no different than removing chicken skin in my opinion.

I think this is a big stretch. Does a cook ever intend for you to eat the garnish, ever? Chicken skin, being a part of the food that is presented prior to and after cooking is definitely meant to be tasted which is why it is seasoned and sauced. Regardless of which garnish you use, it is not meant to be consumed by judges and should not affect appearance, taste, or tenderness, whether it is stuck to the bottom or not. Chicken skin does not equal garnish.

 

[Pappy Q]

I think this is a big stretch. Does a cook ever intend for you to eat the garnish, ever? Chicken skin, being a part of the food that is presented prior to and after cooking is definitely meant to be tasted which is why it is seasoned and sauced. Regardless of which garnish you use, it is not meant to be consumed by judges and should not affect appearance, taste, or tenderness, whether it is stuck to the bottom or not. Chicken skin does not equal garnish.

Of course it's a stretch but as I said "in theory". A judge could think this way and be perfectly within the rules and direction of KCBS.