So when is the sauce contest going to end?

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Okie Sawbones

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The last contests I judged were all about the sauce, because you could barely taste the meat. Thick, gooey sauce smothering the chicken and ribs. Pork not so much. Even some brisket entries had sweet sauce.

Who is driving this 'sweet to win' mantra? It sure isn't the judges that I judge with, because they were all grinching about the heavy handed sauce. A little sweet and heat kick on chicken and ribs is nice, but somewhere along the line 'if a little is good then a lot is better' took over.

I'm hoping this trend will die away, the sooner the better. :rant2: :popcorn:
 
When I am judging and all I can taste is sauce I score the entry down. I want to be able to taste the meat. Chicken and ribs should taste like chicken and rib and not the sauce.
 
Ron_L said:
I haven't judged around here yet this year, but that doesn't seem to be the case in this area.

As far as when it will end, when teams stop scoring well with it :rolleyes:
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^^^ There's the answer right there. I like a thin coat of sauce that doesn't overpower the meat but if the judges give out higher scores for more sauce then that's what everyone will gravitate to
 
I guess I'm in the minority. If I can't taste the meat it gets a 6 or less and comment card. Rub and sauce should complement the meat, not overpower it IMHO. Recently I've seen a couple team's turn in meat with a rib only and no sauce. I thought they were quite good. I don't know how they did in the pack
 
Ron_L said:
As far as when it will end, when teams stop scoring well with it :rolleyes:
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They don't with me and other judges. I judge each entry on its merit, but candied, heavy sauce gets a ding due to being unable to taste the meat.

A table average of 29.7 is not that great for ribs, and 25.1 for chicken speaks for itself, so an eye roll is not merited. I checked my wife's table and they were 26.6 for ribs, and chicken was better at 30.2.
 
rob g said:
I guess I'm in the minority. If I can't taste the meat it gets a 6 or less and comment card. Rub and sauce should complement the meat, not overpower it IMHO. Recently I've seen a couple team's turn in meat with a rib only and no sauce. I thought they were quite good. I don't know how they did in the pack
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You're not in the minority, but you are tougher on the cooks than me. I did send out a few comment cards.
 
eap0510 said:
When I am judging and all I can taste is sauce I score the entry down. I want to be able to taste the meat. Chicken and ribs should taste like chicken and rib and not the sauce.
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Exactly. The KCBS Manual states: You may not score up or down for something that is NOT presented, for example, garnishes, sauces, white or dark meat, pulled, sliced or chopped meats.

But the manual does not state you can't score down for over sauced meats.
 
One of the last contests I cooked, I tried a burnt end from a neighboring team. It was soooo sweet I had to spit it out. I couldn't believe how sweet it was!
 
I've noticed that "Johnny Trigg" ribs got popular about the time I first ran into over sweet BBQ. The trend will probably last until that sort of preparation no longer wins contests, which will depend on the judges. Who are handicapped by the rules not faulting the inability to taste the meat.
Keep up the good fight!
 
dadsr4 said:
I've noticed that "Johnny Trigg" ribs got popular about the time I first ran into over sweet BBQ. The trend will probably last until that sort of preparation no longer wins contests, which will depend on the judges. Who are handicapped by the rules not faulting the inability to taste the meat.
Keep up the good fight!
Click to expand...

I can eat ribs dry or sweet, with a personal preference of just a hint of sweetness. Personal preference has to be set aside when judging. I only had one 9 for taste on ribs last weekend -- it was sweet, but not candied, had some nice rub flavors going on, with a little kick of heat on the end. Looked great on the presentation too, but danged if they didn't undercook it. Has some tug. I'm sure the weather had something to do with the turn ins. We had a crazy front blow in around 10 am, winds at least 50 mph, blowing vendors tents away. I couldn't see the cook area, but I sure felt sorry for the cooks. Fortunately it only lasted about 45 minutes.
 
This thread is a great example of why continuing education should be required to keep your "judging license".
 
I found the following statements to be very interesting, and, to me, sum up the dilemma that cooks and judges face each week. (And I am NOT picking on you, Okie! I face the same thing when I judge. You just happen to post it :-D)

Okie Sawbones said:
Exactly. The KCBS Manual states: You may not score up or down for something that is NOT presented, for example, garnishes, sauces, white or dark meat, pulled, sliced or chopped meats.

But the manual does not state you can't score down for over sauced meats.
Click to expand...

Okie Sawbones said:
I can eat ribs dry or sweet, with a personal preference of just a hint of sweetness. Personal preference has to be set aside when judging.
Click to expand...

I agree with both points. But, isn't "over-sauced" a personal preference? We took part in a practice competition with an open judging panel in place of the awards ceremony and there was a husband and wife who are 100+ comp MCBJs and on every entry the husband commented that there was too much sauce, and the wife commented that there was either just the right amount of sauce or not enough sauce! I know this couple and they are very good judges, built they both based their scores on their personal preferences, even if just a little. It is very hard to leave that out of the question.
 
Have any of you " taste the meat judges " actually cooked any meat with no seasoning in it? Its fairly bland and very little flavor. So what are you trying to taste? If meat tasted great on its own, why are there 100,000s of recipes of different ways to cook beef chicken and pork? Next question is when mark down for too much sauce, are you giving a comment card that state's that? If not how are we supposed to know why you marked us down? When i get scores back and i have 3 9s, 2 8s and a 7. I'm thinking judge #4 is an idiot and doesn't know what he or she is doing. Marking down doesnt do anything without a comment card other than give the impression you don't know what you're doing.
 
ynotfehc said:
Have any of you " taste the meat judges " actually cooked any meat with no seasoning in it? Its fairly bland and very little flavor. So what are you trying to taste? If meat tasted great on its own, why are there 100,000s of recipes of different ways to cook beef chicken and pork? Next question is when mark down for too much sauce, are you giving a comment card that state's that? If not how are we supposed to know why you marked us down? When i get scores back and i have 3 9s, 2 8s and a 7. I'm thinking judge #4 is an idiot and doesn't know what he or she is doing. Marking down doesnt do anything without a comment card other than give the impression you don't know what you're doing.
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You do understand a "7" is "above average" not a score that really requires an explanation. Are you the only cook that wants every "above average" score explained? Do you really want every judge explaining a different reason for scoring "above average"? You'd end up like a dog chasing its tail!
Personal preference is the name of the game in competition BBQ.
There are no set rules for each judges decision on how a entry should taste.
Ed
 
Ron_L said:
I found the following statements to be very interesting, and, to me, sum up the dilemma that cooks and judges face each week. (And I am NOT picking on you, Okie! I face the same thing when I judge. You just happen to post it :-D)

I agree with both points. But, isn't "over-sauced" a personal preference?
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Pick away. I got a lot of meat on my bones.:wink:

Simple answer, NO! Oversauced, candied ribs leave you with nothing but overwhelming sweetness. Or if the cook likes vinegar, a strong sour taste. Where's the meat? Hidden in the morass of goo.
 
ynotfehc said:
Have any of you " taste the meat judges " actually cooked any meat with no seasoning in it? Its fairly bland and very little flavor. So what are you trying to taste? If meat tasted great on its own, why are there 100,000s of recipes of different ways to cook beef chicken and pork?

I'm not talking 'no seasoning' here -- this is exactly what I am looking for, the cook's creativity in the rub. You can't taste that when it is buried in a pound of syrupy goo.

Next question is when mark down for too much sauce, are you giving a comment card that state's that? If not how are we supposed to know why you marked us down? When i get scores back and i have 3 9s, 2 8s and a 7. I'm thinking judge #4 is an idiot and doesn't know what he or she is doing. Marking down doesnt do anything without a comment card other than give the impression you don't know what you're doing.
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We're not given much time for comment cards, so usually the 5s or 6s get a comment card. I try to give out cards on sauce because I think BBQ is headed in the wrong direction. It has to be quick though, like 'Perfect chicken, except way too sweet' comment.
 
Okie Sawbones said:
Pick away. I got a lot of meat on my bones.:wink:

Simple answer, NO! Oversauced, candied ribs leave you with nothing but overwhelming sweetness. Or if the cook likes vinegar, a strong sour taste. Where's the meat? Hidden in the morass of goo.
Click to expand...

You may not enjoy that, but others may. That's why I say it is a personal preference.
 
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