Traeger Timberline Problems, updates and fixes

[The Wookiee]

Seems better. Burn pot residue less formed after cool down... fan possibly louder but I wasn't paying good attention before. Guts are all back in and grat s wiped of soot and running her standard at 225 to start...

 

[tom b]

Thanks Wookie keep us posted

 

[The Wookiee]

test

i had significant black soot and burn back on my seasoning run with lots of partly burned still-formed pellets afterwards (see above).

i removed the collar from fan & swapped it out with unused smoke daddy one i had lying around (have an extra auger motor as well). still on firmware version 01.01.02.

i started at 225 for a bit. let it run there, then changed to super smoke @ 225 for a bit. no issues. opened hood and it recovered quickly.

bumped it up to 275 and ran for a bit. opened hood and it recovered quickly.
bumped it up to 350 and ran for a bit. opened hood and it recovered quickly.
bumped it up to 400 and ran for a bit. opened hood and it recovered quickly.
taking it down to 250 to see how long it takes... hard for this thing to spill heat due to the way it's built... opened hood for a minute or 2 to help. gave it a few minutes and still hovering ~280. time to move on with my day so shut grill down.

startup to shutdown just over 90min.

it took about 15min from startup to 225. about 8-10 min per temp jump. ~2min recovery after hood openings. gave up on temp spill after ~15min. after 10min shutdown still 256 = proof this thing is built well and jumping harder than dumping due to this...

no smoke coming out of hopper at any point = good!!!
burn pot more dust and fresh pellets (see pic) = no burn back = good!!!
finger sweep grates for soot = trace = far better (not perfect)

conclusion? fan collar out and new fan = very helpful. i will cook on it tonight. i will await the new firmware version and a few more tests before putting a neglected pork shoulder on and leaving it overnight...

 

[tom b]

Good news Wookie :thumb:

 

[The Wookiee]

just got email back from Traeger:

as we suspected firmware is same for both.

they say the new 01.01.03 has dropped and our grills should be upgrading any time...

 

[unixadm]

Has anyone seen their grill update to 01.01.03? Mine has not as of this morning. I was hoping to cook a rack of ribs today but my need to throw them on my Ole Hickory instead. They emailed me yesterday indicating that the firmware had been released. They said those who are receiving fan replacements are most likely all for not, since they said it looked to be a software issue. They did say removing the fan collar would help with burn back in the auger tube. I'm not sure why they used the style of fan they selected, but I'm hopeful the new firmware will fix it. They said the new firmware is supposed to help with faster heating and better recovery. They did not specifically state it was addressing the soot issue and the rep only said something like "Since it's heating more quickly, hopefully that means the fan is staying on and not turning completely off". We'll see.

 

[The Wookiee]

Just called. Different person said NOT released yet and character who emailed me was wrong. I just threw some short plate ribs on the LSG instead... was going to be an 'attended' cook either way...

 

[unixadm]

Yeah, I got an email stating that the update has not been released and they don't know when it will be released now. I'll give them a week or so, then I'm gonna start moving towards getting my money back. I was going to buy an FEC120 before this but thought this would meet in the middle for less than half the cost. Thus far, I'm more frustrated with their mixed messages than the issue itself. I had to put ribs and chicken on my large Ole Hickory rotisserie today, instead of using the 1300.

 

[The Wookiee]

I do hope they get it right and sooner than later...

 

[unixadm]

One thing that some of us FEC100 users did back in the day when we were not overly satisfied with the performance of the unit was to add a small capacitor across the draft fan leads. This would increase the fan speed during lower PWM activity and sometimes give the fan enough juice to keep it rotating if they did a momentary shutoff. I ordered a 100MFD capacitor to play around with, should this issue persist. The higher the MFD, the faster than fan will operate during reduced PWM cycles. I'm assuming it's a 12 or 24 volt fan, but I have not checked with my multi-meter yet.

 

[smokeswirl]

. If you have ANY black buildup on anything within the smoker, there is a soot issue. You should see brownish and greyish buildup only. A small hint of black is okay, but if you wipe your finger across things and have black soot, it's a problem.

1. Grates
2. Drip pan
3. Heat diffuser (U shaped piece that goes over the fire pot)

Im pretty new to pellet smokers but I think I have to disagree with you about the black soot. Particularly regarding soot on the drip pan and diffuser plates. I have two pellet grills GMG and a Rec Tec and never had problem with soot on my food or the tops of the grill grates, drip pan and the diffuser. However if I flip the diffuser over and the drip tray there is always black soot. How can you burn low and slow and not have any black soot? smoke is by definition incomplete combustion and will have soot. Otherwise you'd just get heat and ash like a pellet heater.

Maybe Im misunderstanding your definition of black soot. But I cant keep my hands clean without gloves when I take mine apart for maintenance and cleaning. I get plenty of black ash on my hands and some awful stuff when the ash mixes with a particularly greasy cook.

I think black soot is more of a problem in pellet heaters not smokers. Help me understand. Thanks

 

[unixadm]

If I take my Timberline apart, my hands have soot on them. A small amount of black soot right at the fire pot is OK, but not when it's coating the grates, etc. If it's on the grates, then it's on your food. The issue is they are turning off the combustion/draft fan, which is not what you should do. I have a Fast Eddy PG1000 and it does not offer a cool down mode. In that cooker, the fan speed is fixed at a single speed. In the Timberline, it's variable speed based on demand. This is necessary if you want to try to limit overshoots and large temporary variations, but there is a reason why most pellet grills do both of those things, they need a stoked fire to run clean. So if I'm cooking on the PG1000 and turn the unit off, you can watch the black sooty smoke immediately start coming out of the fire pot until the fuel burns down. The same is true in the Timberline, however, it does this while cooking. I believe it's even worse in Super Smoke mode.

I've been cooking on pellet smokers for about seven years. As I mentioned previously, GMG made this same mistake just before they released their WIFI controllers. They sent me a replacement controller with firmware on it that commanded the fan off and on as the cooker approached the set point, just like the Timberline firmware. I reported the issue and gave them feedback about what I saw. They revised the firmware and send me an updated controller which resolved the problem. There was no noticeable black soot after that update and it never occurred again after updating to the WIFI controller either.

A little soot won't hurt anything, but if it's occurring cyclically while cooking, that's not good. In addition, to get smoke from pellets, you need less fuel and ideally a fire at or close to a smolder. That won't produce black soot, that's your thin blue. It's when the fuel is actively at flame and then goes to a state of incomplete combustion, that you get soot, which puts out mostly carbon. However, soot can contain a lot of very toxic compounds, which is not ideal in a cooking environment.

That's why we don't smoke with "black smoke" and that's why incomplete combustion can ruin your food in a hurry. This is a problem they need to fix and it appears they admit there is a problem.

 

[unixadm]

I took my Timberline 1300's access cover off and they are using a 120V fan. This is the first smoker I've seen use 120V fans. Most use DC fans with fix speed or with PWM control. The fan is variable speed controlled which, since it's not a simple on/off mode.

 

[smokeswirl]

If I take my Timberline apart, my hands have soot on them. A small amount of black soot right at the fire pot is OK, but not when it's coating the grates, etc. If it's on the grates, then it's on your food. The issue is they are turning off the combustion/draft fan, which is not what you should do. I have a Fast Eddy PG1000 and it does not offer a cool down mode. In that cooker, the fan speed is fixed at a single speed. In the Timberline, it's variable speed based on demand. This is necessary if you want to try to limit overshoots and large temporary variations, but there is a reason why most pellet grills do both of those things, they need a stoked fire to run clean. So if I'm cooking on the PG1000 and turn the unit off, you can watch the black sooty smoke immediately start coming out of the fire pot until the fuel burns down. The same is true in the Timberline, however, it does this while cooking. I believe it's even worse in Super Smoke mode.
I've been cooking on pellet smokers for about seven years. As I mentioned previously, GMG made this same mistake just before they released their WIFI controllers. They sent me a replacement controller with firmware on it that commanded the fan off and on as the cooker approached the set point, just like the Timberline firmware. I reported the issue and gave them feedback about what I saw. They revised the firmware and send me an updated controller which resolved the problem. There was no noticeable black soot after that update and it never occurred again after updating to the WIFI controller either.

A little soot won't hurt anything, but if it's occurring cyclically while cooking, that's not good. In addition, to get smoke from pellets, you need less fuel and ideally a fire at or close to a smolder. That won't produce black soot, that's your thin blue. It's when the fuel is actively at flame and then goes to a state of incomplete combustion, that you get soot, which puts out mostly carbon. However, soot can contain a lot of very toxic compounds, which is not ideal in a cooking environment.

That's why we don't smoke with "black smoke" and that's why incomplete combustion can ruin your food in a hurry. This is a problem they need to fix and it appears they admit there is a problem.

Thanks for the clarification. I think we are on the same page. i can get on board with that

 

[bproffer]

I finally got around to checking to see how my Traeger performed after removing the fan shroud. Before I fired it up, I took out all grates, drip shield, heat diffuser, etc.. I sprayed all the removable parts with some grill cleaner and cleaned them off, as well as the grill interior. I wanted everything very clean so I could get a good idea where I was at soot wise, as that has been one of the bigger problems.

As soon as I was satisfied with how clean everything was I started the grill. I started at 250° with probably 1/8 cup of pellets in the firepot. I still don't have the confidence to start with an empty firepot as both times I have done that the grill failed to ignite.

Once ignited, I shut the lid and waited for it to come up to 250° which it did rather quickly since I had not yet installed the heat diffuser or any interior components. It actually overshot by about 50° but I figure that was due to no diffuser and too many pellets at startup. Once at 250° I installed the diffuser and then the heat shield, and both times the temp would drop and then take a between 5-10 minutes to recover (the recovery time was longer with the drip tray as it had more thermal mass). Finally I installed the lower grate. It took me a while to get it to fit as it was dark already and I couldn't get it to slide in between the rails. The temp dropped to about 180° but recovered with minimal overshoot, so all in all I was pretty happy about that.

After running for about an hour or so at 250, I went ahead and shut it down. it was a 10 minute shutdown and I had the lid open. One thing I noticed is that the auger kicked on the last 15 seconds of the shut down. Not sure if that is to clear potentially smoldering pellets or what.

After the shutdown cycle I did the paper towel test and found that everything was again covered in a thin layer of black soot. I am sure it would have been worse if I had run longer or on super smoke. So all is still not well. I'll check it again today to see how far pellets burnt back into the auger if at all. The other thing I noticed is that there always seems to be a lot of pellet dust coming from the auger like it is chewing up pellets. Something else I'll have to talk with the rep about.

 

[unixadm]

Good update. Same thing I've seen. I didn't see any improvement by removing the fan shroud.

As for it pushing pellets out at the end of the cycle, I'm sure this is done for a couple of reasons:

1. To clear the end of the auger tube of possibly smoldering pellets.
2. To add additional pellets for the next ignition cycle.

I've found that my 1300 will start up much quicker if I don't clean out the firepot. If you do, add a couple tablespoons worth of pellets afterwards to simulate what it does. It starts up quickly when I've done this with no issues.

I confirmed with Traeger that they have forwarded all of my feedback on to the design team, so I'm hoping they fix the firmware to keep the fan ON at all times, at a reduced RPM.

 

[Free Mr. Tony]

I really don't want to kick you guys while your down, but I sure am glad I dodged this bullet. Had the pellet grill I had for sale moved, I likely would have given this a shot. Traeger nostalgia was kicking in, and I was very enamoured by their new offering.

I'm sure they will figure it out, and these things will be fine. I'm just glad I am not part of the R&D/early adopter team.

Sincerely, Good luck to all that have purchased in getting them up and running.

 

[bproffer]

I really don't want to kick you guys while your down, but I sure am glad I dodged this bullet. Had the pellet grill I had for sale moved, I likely would have given this a shot. Traeger nostalgia was kicking in, and I was very enamoured by their new offering.

I'm sure they will figure it out, and these things will be fine. I'm just glad I am not part of the R&D/early adopter team.

Sincerely, Good luck to all that have purchased in getting them up and running.

Even if/when they get it all figured out, I am still not sure it will be worth it in the end. Right now I am feeling like I should have gone back to Yoder like my gut was telling me. :tsk:

 

[unixadm]

First off, don't let Traeger off the hook. We paid for a premium product and many of us are sitting here dealing with issues. If the update would have came out and fixed it, I wouldn't have been very hard on Traeger. However, it didn't, so while I'm sitting here "making payments" on something I can't "drive", I'm going to see what I can do to ease the pain. I'll just say I have a few free (not talking rubs and sauces, either) accessories on the way from Traeger direct to compensate me for my time and inconvenience. While a fix would have been preferred, at least I got some freebies to make me feel a bit better in the mean time. They will fix it, I'm confident in that. They obviously wanted to make an impression in the market and for their new product to have some growing pains, the last thing they "should" want to do is let that erode future sales of the product line. I'm actually glad they are not throwing out random updates and instead, from an outside perspective, seem to be digging into the issue.

I cannot validate if the initial launch firmware had this issue or if it was introduced in a post-release update. Mine arrived with the latest firmware, so I had no prior experience with an older firmware.

Most of us have multiple cookers, so it's not killing us, but if they don't fix it in a few weeks, I'll start chatting with my dealer about dropping off another "demo" unit for them to run outside of their store. lol.

 

[Shluctr]

I also am having issues with heating up properly. Mine won't get over 250. Hoping when update comes it will fix the issue. Traeger thought it could be something else and would send a thermocoupler. Now that's on back order and I'm a little frustrated.