Fire In The Valley Red Bank BBQ(non payment)

[Gowan]

It seems to me that a solution would be for KCBS to purchase some sort of insurance policy or bond to cover default of the organizer of any contest they sanction. Since only a very tiny percentage of events do fail, the policy should be much more reasonable than if each individual organizer bought such a policy.

Such a setup would result in KCBS providing concrete benefit to both organizers and teams in exchange for the money they are already collecting for sanctioning. It would also motivate the organization to be more diligent when deciding which events to sanction, and perhaps pave the way for an "extra security" policy where first-year contests could have additional requirements (i.e. funds in escrow) in order to obtain sanctioning.

 

[Burnt at Both Endz]

This is really sad to see it happen again. While I know it's tough on new comps to understand that there needs to be money in a prize chest, something needs to be done to make sure 1st yr comps don't promise what they can't deliver. Logical sense would tell us that KCBS needs to help us cooks make sure that comps are legit and not head over heals in debt before we, as a group, spend thousands of dollars and a weekend of our life.

 

[dmprantz]

Once upon a time, I remember it always being said that KCBS would make good on any payouts not made, and that was the bennefit that they brought. Then there was an issue with a contest in downtown St. Louis, and the organization didn't do anything, clammed up, and started trying to distance itself from the whole concept of money in an attempt to divest liabillity. That was when they stopped publishing purse sizes for a while.

I hope to some day get my money, but honestly the thing that hurts worse here is that my daughters really wanted their trophy for getting a call, and it looks like they never will. They also got cheated out of their "official" picture. Sad reminders last night when we shot off the fireworks we bought on the way home with our "prize money" and ate frozen leftovers from this comp.

 

[rorkin]

It seems to me that a solution would be for KCBS to purchase some sort of insurance policy or bond to cover default of the organizer of any contest they sanction. Since only a very tiny percentage of events do fail, the policy should be much more reasonable than if each individual organizer bought such a policy.

Such a setup would result in KCBS providing concrete benefit to both organizers and teams in exchange for the money they are already collecting for sanctioning. It would also motivate the organization to be more diligent when deciding which events to sanction, and perhaps pave the way for an "extra security" policy where first-year contests could have additional requirements (i.e. funds in escrow) in order to obtain sanctioning.

Performance bonds don't work that way.

i think it would be hard to find such a insurance policy , especially at a premium less than the cost of assuming the liability in the first place. Doubt that insuranc company would have underwriting data to justify.

The only thing that would make sense is if all organizers and even perhaps competitors paid a small per event fee to a default insurance fund run by Kcbs. It could work like fdic insurance. All banks pay a premium to pay for compensating depositors at fail d banks.

 

[Smoke'n Ice]

Some may recall that quite a few years ago, KCBS required that the organizer have a letter of credit on file prior to the contest or sanctioning and rep was cancelled. Then a 'big time production company' out of AR pitched a betch and the board caved and removed the requirement for all. I used the term 'big time production company' with tongue in cheek as it was a rather self aggrandized individual.

 

[gettinbasted]

KCBS doesn't need any bonds or insurance. This happens so rarely (by their own admission) that they could easily pay off a default when it happens every third or fourth year. In my mind it should just be a cost of doing business and will lead to better vetting of events and organizers.

Right now first year events struggle because of this issue. KCBS stepping up to the plate would make it easier for a first year event to succeed leading to more revenues long term.

 

[Gowan]

KCBS doesn't need any bonds or insurance. This happens so rarely (by their own admission) that they could easily pay off a default when it happens every third or fourth year. In my mind it should just be a cost of doing business and will lead to better vetting of events and organizers.

Right now first year events struggle because of this issue. KCBS stepping up to the plate would make it easier for a first year event to succeed leading to more revenues long term.

This is the true solution.

KCBS now has the funds to indulge in things like building a new office and giving away scholarships, it seems to me a no-brainer that they should be backing up their own promises in their most important activity: sanctioning contests.

 

[Smoke'n Ice]

This is the true solution.

KCBS now has the funds to indulge in things like building a new office and giving away scholarships, it seems to me a no-brainer that they should be backing up their own promises in their most important activity: sanctioning contests.

Why should KCBS be concerned? They received their sanctioning fee up front, the reps may or may not have received their expenses from the organizer but they have a claim against KCBS as they are contractors, so they will be reimbursed, the judges got their book signed. All is well in the power base that elects the BOD, the judges. Why should KCBS rock the boat by expending funds on something that would only benefit a very, very small percentage of their membership?

They have proven over the years that the cooks are not their prime concern and cooks, for the most part, have validated this attitude.

 

[rob g]

KCBS doesn't need any bonds or insurance. This happens so rarely (by their own admission) that they could easily pay off a default when it happens every third or fourth year. In my mind it should just be a cost of doing business and will lead to better vetting of events and organizers.

Right now first year events struggle because of this issue. KCBS stepping up to the plate would make it easier for a first year event to succeed leading to more revenues long term.

If flakey organizers know that KCBS will stand good for the purses then won't they be more inclined to take the money and run? By this thinking shouldn't KCBS also be responsible for the other unpaid vendors involved in the bbq comp? KCBS doesn't know which organizer is going to go bad any better than anyone else. Unless teams are willing to pay a premium for KCBS to take on more liability and responsibility why should they? If they do shouldn't all teams competing also be KCBS members so they are supporting the organization? KCBS is a business and needs to be run as such. Prize money going missing doesn't happen often enough for them to take drastic steps to prevent it. While it may upset people it doesn't really affect that many people and nobody is destitute as a result. At every comp there are a lot of teams that make the same investment but only go home with leftover meat.

 

[gettinbasted]

If flakey organizers know that KCBS will stand good for the purses then won't they be more inclined to take the money and run? By this thinking shouldn't KCBS also be responsible for the other unpaid vendors involved in the bbq comp? KCBS doesn't know which organizer is going to go bad any better than anyone else. Unless teams are willing to pay a premium for KCBS to take on more liability and responsibility why should they? If they do shouldn't all teams competing also be KCBS members so they are supporting the organization? KCBS is a business and needs to be run as such. Prize money going missing doesn't happen often enough for them to take drastic steps to prevent it. While it may upset people it doesn't really affect that many people and nobody is destitute as a result. At every comp there are a lot of teams that make the same investment but only go home with leftover meat.

I don't have a problem with them requiring membership to cook. I think it's silly that they don't.

Flaky organizers have the exact same penalty and incentive to default now regardless of if KCBS makes good on a default or not.

Teams are already paying a premium to cook a KCBS event. It affects a ton of people, most specifically organizers trying to plan a first year event. Most experienced teams won't touch them. I've never not been paid, but I've seen plenty of first year events struggle because of this unknown.

 

[rob g]

I don't see most first year events getting around the funding problem. They likely font have the complete purse in advance for a lot of reasons ie teams delaying their entrance fees, sponsors waiting for the event to firm up before they cut cheques etc. The organizer may have the best of intentions but the event just gets away from him for a multitude of reasons. I don't see this ever changing. There is no reason for the KCBS to take on the liability of guaranteeing the purse. They aren't in line to reap any of the profits. The sanction fee they receive just guarantees the teams that the event will be run to the KCBS standards.

 

[Fat Freddy]

There is no reason for the KCBS to take on the liability of guaranteeing the purse. They aren't in line to reap any of the profits. The sanction fee they receive just guarantees the teams that the event will be run to the KCBS standards.

But then why does KCBS in the guarantee letter they make a contest submit say.......blah blah blah, "the receipt of which is hereby acknowledged, the undersigned Organizer, does hereby unconditionally and irrevocably guarantee the full payment of the following cash prizes and other prizes to be awarded at the KCBS sanctioned contest" blah blah blah........This is taken directly(except for the blahs) from a contests website where they have the guarantee letter on there because that shows the guaranteed payout,

The way I am reading the letter is that while not responsible directly KCBS is putting a guarantee on a certain payout. And if it is not done then KCBS should be a part of a lawsuit against said organizer. The guarantee letter KCBS makes Organizers sign is NOT just for a contest to be run to the KCBS standards otherwise it would not be called PRIZE LETTER GUARANTEE but instead called KCBS STANDARDS GUARANTEE.

Again what I quoted was directly from a contests website where they put the letter as part of their info...and yes they have always and I would assume DID payout. I wasnt lucky enough to get a taste this year.

 

[gettinbasted]

Weighing the odds of if I'm going to get paid or not, currently is, but should not be part of the criteria I use when selecting a professional KCBS sanctioned event.

I understand KCBS feels differently, and that obviously is their right, but I don't think that constitutes running the organization "as a business".

 

[rob g]

But then why does KCBS in the guarantee letter they make a contest submit say.......blah blah blah, "the receipt of which is hereby acknowledged, the undersigned Organizer, does hereby unconditionally and irrevocably guarantee the full payment of the following cash prizes and other prizes to be awarded at the KCBS sanctioned contest" blah blah blah........This is taken directly(except for the blahs) from a contests website where they have the guarantee letter on there because that shows the guaranteed payout,

The way I am reading the letter is that while not responsible directly KCBS is putting a guarantee on a certain payout. And if it is not done then KCBS should be a part of a lawsuit against said organizer. The guarantee letter KCBS makes Organizers sign is NOT just for a contest to be run to the KCBS standards otherwise it would not be called PRIZE LETTER GUARANTEE but instead called KCBS STANDARDS GUARANTEE.

Again what I quoted was directly from a contests website where they put the letter as part of their info...and yes they have always and I would assume DID payout. I wasnt lucky enough to get a taste this year.

I haven't seen the letter but it seems, to me, from what you are explaining that KCBS is forcing the organizer to make a written commitment to a given prize purse. This only gives teams ammunition in the event of a lawsuit if the organizer reneges on their promise. This in no way puts the KCBS on the hook for any monies. By accepting the sanction fee the KCBS makes a promise to the organizer their event will be run by KCBS, through their rep teams, to the best of their ability according to the published KCBS rules. The prize money letter and KCBS standards are 2 different animals.