Brisket Questions before tmrws. cook

[pjtexas1]

Pulling too early is just a natural reaction. Believe me overcooked is way better than under. Use temp as a guide to let you know when to start checking for doneness. Never probe or temp the point. If you are an early puller a long hold in a 170 degree oven is your friend. Once you get the probe tender thing down you will get a good laugh at this one.

 

[Big Swole]

Pulling too early is just a natural reaction. Believe me overcooked is way better than under. Use temp as a guide to let you know when to start checking for doneness. Never probe or temp the point. If you are an early puller a long hold in a 170 degree oven is your friend. Once you get the probe tender thing down you will get a good laugh at this one.

Thank you Sir!


Also, once I can use my left hand (still nursing this broken wrist and half a few weeks to go before rehab) I'll be able to cut my splits in half and build a smaller fire and control temp fluctuations better. That'll help me too I'm sure.

 

[tbrtt1]

I plan to get some BP, just haven't yet.

I guess I'll start wrapping after I.T.'s get 160-170 and checking it for P.T. like you said.

Also, may need to revisit my "resting / venting" time.

Lots of folks on this form have much more bone fides than I do, but for most of this year I have been cooking a brisket at least 2X a month, usually 3. Where I live (God Bless Texas) I get choice packers for $147/lb routinely. Cheaper than ground meat. I say all that to make a point that when you cook them on a very regular basis, the learning curve is quick.

So....I had about 3 weekends in a row in the spring where I took the flat to 203-205* and thought "gotta be done". And while it was very edible, it was not as good as it could and should have been. I took a weekend off and licked my wounds and gathered the determination to smoke a brisket that would pass the flop and pull test.

Here is what I have learned after about 30 briskets in 2016 (I am not exaggerating):

*If it ain't probe tender in the flat, it ain't ready. If the flat is 250* IT and it ain't probe tender, it ain't ready. I gathered the resolve to trust my probing skills, disregard the probe reading and it has not failed me since. The probe is my guide to start checking and I don't start checking until its 190* for choice.

*Fattier, more marbled briskets will be probe tender at a lower IT. A prime may be probe tender at 198* but a select at 210* Also, not all choice is choice. Since I get a lot of my briskets in the $147/lb meat bin, some of these seem more like select to me. I don't complain at that price, but I give plenty of time for the cook and again, trust my probing skills

*As mentioned, ignore the point. Always ignore the point. Its gonna be good no matter what. Its got too much fat to be anything but good. Yum. I don't probe or check the temp in the point.

*I wrap when get the bark I like. Sometimes that's at ~ 155* and sometimes its at 180*.

*Venting is fine and I recommend it if you are concerned that your flat will fall apart when you slice.

*I have done many with a rest in a cooler and many where I rest on the counter. I think the cooler may help insure proper doneness. My theory is this: lets say you probe several places and find it probe tender in those places, but there are some areas where you didn't probe that are not quite done. Resting in the cooler will hold some high temps a little longer and may end up helping those rogue spots that were not probe tender. This is only a theory.

* I have not found adding liquid when I wrap actually dose anything. It ain't hurting anything but not sure its doing anything, at least for getting the tenderness I am looking for

* I do use butcher paper but that is more for bark preservation than achieving proper tenderness, IMHO. You can certainly achieve a floppy pull tested brisket with foil, a pan or BP. I have done them all.

Sorry for the diarrhea of the electronic mouth. But all that was sitting in my noggin so I thought I would dump it.

Good luck in your pursuit of brisket nirvana.

 

[pjtexas1]

Lots of folks on this form have much more bone fides than I do, but for most of this year I have been cooking a brisket at least 2X a month, usually 3. Where I live (God Bless Texas) I get choice packers for $147/lb routinely. Cheaper than ground meat. I say all that to make a point that when you cook them on a very regular basis, the learning curve is quick.

So....I had about 3 weekends in a row in the spring where I took the flat to 203-205* and thought "gotta be done". And while it was very edible, it was not as good as it could and should have been. I took a weekend off and licked my wounds and gathered the determination to smoke a brisket that would pass the flop and pull test.

Here is what I have learned after about 30 briskets in 2016 (I am not exaggerating):

*If it ain't probe tender in the flat, it ain't ready. If the flat is 250* IT and it ain't probe tender, it ain't ready. I gathered the resolve to trust my probing skills, disregard the probe reading and it has not failed me since. The probe is my guide to start checking and I don't start checking until its 190* for choice.

*Fattier, more marbled briskets will be probe tender at a lower IT. A prime may be probe tender at 198* but a select at 210* Also, not all choice is choice. Since I get a lot of my briskets in the $147/lb meat bin, some of these seem more like select to me. I don't complain at that price, but I give plenty of time for the cook and again, trust my probing skills

*As mentioned, ignore the point. Always ignore the point. Its gonna be good no matter what. Its got too much fat to be anything but good. Yum. I don't probe or check the temp in the point.

*I wrap when get the bark I like. Sometimes that's at ~ 155* and sometimes its at 180*.

*Venting is fine and I recommend it if you are concerned that your flat will fall apart when you slice.

*I have done many with a rest in a cooler and many where I rest on the counter. I think the cooler may help insure proper doneness. My theory is this: lets say you probe several places and find it probe tender in those places, but there are some areas where you didn't probe that are not quite done. Resting in the cooler will hold some high temps a little longer and may end up helping those rogue spots that were not probe tender. This is only a theory.

* I have not found adding liquid when I wrap actually dose anything. It ain't hurting anything but not sure its doing anything, at least for getting the tenderness I am looking for

* I do use butcher paper but that is more for bark preservation than achieving proper tenderness, IMHO. You can certainly achieve a floppy pull tested brisket with foil, a pan or BP. I have done them all.

Sorry for the diarrhea of the electronic mouth. But all that was sitting in my noggin so I thought I would dump it.

Good luck in your pursuit of brisket nirvana.

Good old practice. :thumb:
Just can't beat it. And don't forget to take notes. Notes are like gold. They know what you can't remember.

 

[PaulstheRibList]

Also, once I can use my left hand (still nursing this broken wrist and half a few weeks to go before rehab) I'll be able to cut my splits in half and build a smaller fire and control temp fluctuations better. That'll help me too I'm sure.

Get a http://www.kindlingcracker.com/ and you will be able to split those splits however you want! I'll never cook on a small (meaning smaller than a 500 gallon tank) pit again without one!

 

[Big Swole]

Thank you everyone!!! Everyone has great info and I appreciate it.

tbrtt1 - thank you for that very well typed knowledge post you shared. It really does sound like lots of practice and really knowing your smoker is the key here.


I'm almost hesitant to cook this one today on the offset because I don't have a way here at the house to cut the splits down to smaller pieces for a smaller fire. I may have to make a trip to my fathers house or the store somewhere and buy a chopsaw or something to cut these into smaller chunks. After reading everything I think a more controlled fire and temperatures along with ignoring the point and letting it be done when it's done is the three main keys here.



Also, trying to figure a way to divert some of the heat since this is such a short offset, I may try to use the charcoal great as a heat diffuser like I've seen in some videos on YouTube. I know it sounds weird but I put two large wood splits down under the grate to try to divergent some of the heat like a tuning plate but I still think the fire box is still too hot.


One last question. If I use the charcoal wood grate as a heat diffuser should I build the fire on the very bottom of the firebox like Franklin did in that video? Would that actually keep some of the heat down and more consistent versus having a charcoal great with air under it? I just figure once I start a fire in the Ash gets built up it may not burn as clean as I would like but I guess that's why he cooks like that with the door open for plenty of air. If not, I can use the food grate from the firebox side as the wood and charcoal grate to build the fire on. It would be even taller so I imagine it would be harder to control the temps with that much air under it.

I hate to change too many things at one time but just like anyone, I'm trying to rush things to find the perfect set up.


Sorry for the long post again.

 

[Big Swole]

Here is what I was asking about the fire grate as a defuser / tuning plate. Also shows the two wood splits I had under the food grate the last two cooks trying to divert some heat.

What are y'alls thoughts on this as a tuning plate. ALSO, starting a fire on the flat bottom of the firebox and just keeping the door open like Franklin did in his vid or using the food grate from the fire box as the wood / fire grate?

 

[Big Swole]

Here's a snap from Aaron Franklins vid....Building fire in the bottom vs. having a fire grate.


Thoughts?? I need to start it soon.

 

[Big Swole]

Well, pressed for time so I decided to try the Smoke chamber this way. Heat defuser and water pan underneath.

Also, went ahead and built the fire directly on the bottom of the firebox. I hope I can keep it hot enough like Franklin with the door open more vs. a fire grate with air under it.

 

[Big Swole]

Briskets on and I was able to cut a few splits in half with a table saw I have. lol

Trying to see if I can keep the fire under better control this time.

 

[landarc]

I think you under-cooked it, judging by the time at the rack and the explanation of what you experienced eating. And yes, you may have sliced it bias to the grain, but, that is not the problem.

At temperatures of 225°F to 250°F, you are looking at 1.5 hours per pound, down to about 1.2 hours per pound. So, 9 hours would have been pretty fast actually.

Finally, one way to read a brisket once sliced.
under-done: point feels tender, flat bend, does not break. Slices very well. Looks like plastic wrap is holding the slice together when bent, texture is dry in flat
done: point feels like jello, slices will break slightly on edges and end. When bent, you can see the thread like fibers slowly stretch. Texture is slightly moist in flat
over-done: flat will not slice or only slices thick. both edges crack off when slicing. When you go to bend, it falls apart. Texture can be very moist, or powdery dry if you really missed.

 

[pjtexas1]

Looks like with that small cook chamber that you would be diverting all the heat to the exhaust side where you don't want it. Imo if the fb side is hotter and the brisket is on the exhaust side wouldn't that be better? I would also turn the brisket 90 degrees so that the whole thing is furthest away from the fb. I know that flies in the face of what everyone says but with such a short cc that's what I would try. You could rotate half way thru the cook so both sides cook evenly.

 

[Big Swole]

Yeah, the stack side is now seeming hotter than normal...

Fire built on the bottom of the firebox is not easier by any means. Can't seem to get temps consistent. Having to manage it constantly.

Oh well..Live and learn.

I'll do the best I can and we'll see what happens....I may pull the food grate and slide the diverter down a bit and let some heat escape closer to the firebox.

Don't think this long brisket would fit long ways like you're saying. Pit's not that deep.

 

[pjtexas1]

Move the diverter and turn the brisket when it shtinks.

 

[Jason TQ]

The slice picture looks like it was pretty close to me. That accordion cracking you had means it was there or almost there. Brisket is tough to nail all the time and honestly even when brisket is done perfectly I would not consider the flat to be "moist" in the same manner as other meat like a medium rare steak. It also doesn't tastes as good as other "beefs" to me. It just doesn't have the same tenderness/flavor. Once I stopped chasing that it helped.

I'm a huge proponent of using temp as a guide. For choice briskets I probe and my check temp is 202-204, but honestly I don't remember the last time it was done at 202 and I now pretty much don't peak until 204 and it is never overdone. Keep in mind this isn't the magical temp, but just the one that works for how I cook them most of the time. Higher cook temps typically mean higher finishing temps. And it never fails me.

I do like cooking by feel as well and on larger cooks you have to, but when I'm just cooking one brisket I'll monitor temp because I think it is fun.

My brisket rests open to air for maybe 5-10mins, just in the time I'm checking it for doneness and possibly getting distracted for a few minutes before I wrap up and put in a cooler or cambro.

There is a lot of info to sift through and really it does come down to cooking a bunch of brisket to see how your methods come together from the pieces of information you choose to use. Many ways to cook a brisket and variables like fat content, cooking temp, type of pit, size/thickness of brisket all come into play :-D.

 

[SmittyJonz]

I would have used the expanded grilling grate for the fire grate and firegrate for Difusser.

 

[Big Swole]

I would have used the expanded grilling grate for the fire grate and firegrate for Difusser.

Well I did use the fire grate for the diffuser, not the grill grate for fire grate...Will next time for sure. This fire management sux.
But I'll push through it.

 

[Big Swole]

The slice picture looks like it was pretty close to me. That accordion cracking you had means it was there or almost there. Brisket is tough to nail all the time and honestly even when brisket is done perfectly I would not consider the flat to be "moist" in the same manner as other meat like a medium rare steak. It also doesn't tastes as good as other "beefs" to me. It just doesn't have the same tenderness/flavor. Once I stopped chasing that it helped.

I'm a huge proponent of using temp as a guide. For choice briskets I probe and my check temp is 202-204, but honestly I don't remember the last time it was done at 202 and I now pretty much don't peak until 204 and it is never overdone. Keep in mind this isn't the magical temp, but just the one that works for how I cook them most of the time. Higher cook temps typically mean higher finishing temps. And it never fails me.

I do like cooking by feel as well and on larger cooks you have to, but when I'm just cooking one brisket I'll monitor temp because I think it is fun.

My brisket rests open to air for maybe 5-10mins, just in the time I'm checking it for doneness and possibly getting distracted for a few minutes before I wrap up and put in a cooler or cambro.

There is a lot of info to sift through and really it does come down to cooking a bunch of brisket to see how your methods come together from the pieces of information you choose to use. Many ways to cook a brisket and variables like fat content, cooking temp, type of pit, size/thickness of brisket all come into play :-D.

Yeah, I've got to start going by feel and probe and not temps. Going to try my hardest on this one. We'll see.

Thank you

 

[Big Swole]

3.25 hrs in and meat temp is already 144* (that about normal??)

Fires been way hotter at times than I meant for it to be.

 

[Big Swole]

Rubbed Brisket...14+ lbs.

Mustard and pickle juice at the binder. Kosher salt & pepper with some other stuff for my rub.