Pork Slices - Turn-in

[pipobbq]

Sorry guys...most of the forums I usually post on are big picture friendly.

 

[Mo-Dave]

Posted by Rahpsody: You can obviously see how some people are butchering their meat before cooking it due to the rub being around the entire slice of cut meat as well as a smoke ring around the entire perimeter of these newly popular slices. Why isn't this rule enforced more? I saw some in Wildwood and brought it to the attention of some people and they 'explained' to me how the team cut the meat after they cooked it, I don't buy all of it. Can any light be shed on this?
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This kind of statement from a judge really bothers me. You are making an assumption that the cook did something wrong, how else could they get a smoke ring all around the meat. As others have pointed out it is entirely possible to do this without cheating. After this process being explained you still drought it was done legally. I hope your scores did not reflect your assumption they cheated, if so please refrain from making accusations for what you think to be truth but in fact are false, please judge it as it is presented not as you preceptive to be cooked I hope you are not one of those judges that think if there is a lot of sauce on the meat the cook must be hiding something and so what if he is, does it look good, taste good, is it tender enough, that is all that should matter.

Sorry for that rant on you but like I said I really hate when I see these kinds of uninformed judgments being handed down by what are supposed to be informed people that we trust to be open and fair minded.
Dave
CBJ
Team Tuff Rub

 

[Podge]

Posted by Rahpsody: You can obviously see how some people are butchering their meat before cooking it due to the rub being around the entire slice of cut meat as well as a smoke ring around the entire perimeter of these newly popular slices. Why isn't this rule enforced more? I saw some in Wildwood and brought it to the attention of some people and they 'explained' to me how the team cut the meat after they cooked it, I don't buy all of it. Can any light be shed on this?
__________________________________________________________
This kind of statement from a judge really bothers me. You are making an assumption that the cook did something wrong, how else could they get a smoke ring all around the meat. As others have pointed out it is entirely possible to do this without cheating. After this process being explained you still drought it was done legally. I hope your scores did not reflect your assumption they cheated, if so please refrain from making accusations for what you think to be truth but in fact are false, please judge it as it is presented not as you preceptive to be cooked I hope you are not one of those judges that think if there is a lot of sauce on the meat the cook must be hiding something and so what if he is, does it look good, taste good, is it tender enough, that is all that should matter.

Sorry for that rant on you but like I said I really hate when I see these kinds of uninformed judgments being handed down by what are supposed to be informed people that we trust to be open and fair minded.
Dave
CBJ
Team Tuff Rub

(First off, I've never judged before, and never went to the CBJ class, so forgive my ignorance.) :-D

Is it the duty of the table captain to judge if an entry is legal before showing it to the judges? if so, and the TC deems the entry legal, then the judges at his table should judge it as a legal entry to begin with, and it's not their call.

 

[Neal]

(First off, I've never judged before, and never went to the CBJ class, so forgive my ignorance.) :-D

Is it the duty of the table captain to judge if an entry is legal before showing it to the judges? if so, and the TC deems the entry legal, then the judges at his table should judge it as a legal entry to begin with, and it's not their call.

I have always wondered why judges will second guess the legality of an entry and even score down based on this. This is absurd to me. It is the Table Captain's job to open the box, and make the determination on a legal entry.

I did take the class (admittedly, a few years ago) and we did go over legal and illegal entries. But we only went over the stuff that would DQ an entry to cover what to look for as a TC.

Judging is pretty simple. Judge what is presented to you.

 

[ModelMaker]

At "Up In Smoke" in Mason City this weekend there was a pork entry that had a money muscle sliced and presented with chunks. I don't see how that much surface area can obtain bark and smoke ring and still be attached to the whole butt the way momma pig put it there. I almost called the rep over to look at it but I personally do not have perfect knowledge of how all money muscles set in any given butt.
What as cooks would you like judges to do if we question how that particular muscle is cooked and presented?
Should we just hope all are playing fairly?
ModelMaker

 

[Mo-Dave]

(First off, I've never judged before, and never went to the CBJ class, so forgive my ignorance.) :-D

Is it the duty of the table captain to judge if an entry is legal before showing it to the judges? if so, and the TC deems the entry legal, then the judges at his table should judge it as a legal entry to begin with, and it's not their call.

Podge please let me apologize, this was not meant for you. It was intended for Rhapsody,s post. I guess I was on the wrong post, again I am sorry if I implied it was you I was referring to, my bad.:redface::redface::redface::redface:
Dave

 

[Podge]

Podge please let me apologize, this was not meant for you. It was intended for Rhapsody,s post. I guess I was on the wrong post, again I am sorry if I implied it was you I was referring to, my bad.:redface::redface::redface::redface:
Dave

oh no, i know that wasn't meant for me, i was just bringing up a question i came up with from reading your post i quoted.

 

[Mo-Dave]

oh no, i know that wasn't meant for me, i was just bringing up a question i came up with from reading your post i quoted.

I will have to show my ignorance here, first time for everything ya know:icon_wink.
I think the TC should look at it first to conclude that it is ok but it is ultimately up to the the judges to catch anything wrong, bring it to the TC attention and he TC should summons the Rep for approval/disapproval before moving on.
Dave

 

[KC_Bobby]

I think even if the table capt notices that the entry is illegal that the table score it for appearence first as if it were legal and without mention/discussion that it is (could be) illegal. And if a judge notices/thinks it is illegal, keeps his/her comments to themselves until after all appearance judging for the entry is complete.

And at that point, the entry is taken to the rep for a ruling. Then the entry is brought back over to the table for taste and tenderness scoring and the judges are instructed to judge as it was legal.

Why? Because if it were determined that a rep was wrong to DQ (most cooks take pics of entries and the rep and cook could discuss after all judging took place), then the cook could be awarded their points with as little outside influence as possible from the judges.

 

[SmokeMeTender]

This is soooo confusing. :roll: Just want to make sure that I am judging correctly when I see the slices. We will be judging the AR and others.
Some have stated that there is a way to cook the meat without removing or leaving a small piece that is attached, can you guys share how you guys are doing it?

I guess I have a question as to why KCBS has not addressed this.

thanks

 

[KC_Bobby]

LOL, we did.

Basically, if the garnish is OK pork is pretty hard to DQ unless the box has a foreign object in it or sauce pooled. And by pooled, we don't mean drizzled - again, that's legal (and why I mentioned my thoughts on the scoring process) Drizzling is not marking in my book.

 

[Podge]

This is soooo confusing. :roll: Just want to make sure that I am judging correctly when I see the slices. We will be judging the AR and others.
Some have stated that there is a way to cook the meat without removing or leaving a small piece that is attached, can you guys share how you guys are doing it?

I guess I have a question as to why KCBS has not addressed this.

thanks

That would be very hard for me to explain on here, but when you think about it, you are unable to see completely around the whole slice unless it's laid down on it's side. So, a judge (or TC for that matter) may not be able to tell if there's bark 360 all around the slice until it's pulled out of the box. I'm lucky to have 3/4 of that muscle barked up, but the way i present it, you can't see the un-barked side, which was attached to the butt to begin with. if you were to cut off just the bark off of my slices, it would make a "U" shape, not an "O" shape.

 

[Jeff_in_KC]

This is soooo confusing. :roll: Just want to make sure that I am judging correctly when I see the slices. We will be judging the AR and others.
Some have stated that there is a way to cook the meat without removing or leaving a small piece that is attached, can you guys share how you guys are doing it?

I guess I have a question as to why KCBS has not addressed this.

thanks

rvn, just remember at the Royal - when you see MY box, it's 999. Got it? :lol: Seriously though, I was concerned at Warrensburg a couple of weeks ago that we would get judge farked when I separated the money muscle and found that it was close to 90% smoke ring around it. Luckily we did not and I should not have to worry about that kind of thing but you never know.

On another note, that farkin' HUGE photo is BACK today.

 

[Solidkick]

Why are you judging the smoke ring? I don't think that is a required criteria........

A-HA! Comparision judging! LOL :twisted:
Remember, judge each entry on it's own merit.....

Where the fark is Ford at when you need him??

 

[Jeff_in_KC]

Why are you judging the smoke ring? I don't think that is a required criteria........

A-HA! Comparision judging! LOL Remember, judge each entry on it's own merit.....

Gary, I mention that only to say that some judges think they're looking at a pork loin (even though the damned diameter is less than 2 inches on the money muscle most times) if the smoke ring goes all the way around the meat.

 

[Solidkick]

Gary, I mention that only to say that some judges think they're looking at a pork loin (even though the damned diameter is less than 2 inches on the money muscle most times) if the smoke ring goes all the way around the meat.

Understood.....I should have quoted rvn so that the reference didn't appear to be to you........:redface:

 

[Solidkick]

Note to Rod, Linda, Merl, and Carol.........

Please disregard all this money muscle talk.....I just got my pork working again this year and don't want to change........ :twisted::mrgreen::wink:

 

[SmokeMeTender]

Gentlemen

First I did not ask regarding the smoke ring and I do know not to judge. I have judged 29 contests around the midwest. We see all kinds of presentations. Some small slices to very large.

I ask questions here to help me become a better judge and the more information I get from teams on their side helps me.

I guess judges get a bad wrap when we try to find out more information and ask questions when all we are trying to do is educate ourselves a little more than what was given in the class and give the best scores on what we are presented. Judges in other parts of the US does not see slices.

Sorry to get your pants in such a wad

 

[Plowboy]

It has to be cooked whole and connected to the butt. Once you've cut the part away that you plan to slice for turn ins, that butt can not be returned to cook longer for competition use.......take it home and finish it in the oven.....

Gary,

I had this discussion with a board member (in charge of rules) and two very long time, well respected contest reps a year ago. The board member said that this was definitely illegal. The contest reps, who teach CBJ courses, said that it isn't a problem to cut off a hunk of your butt once it reaches temp, and then continue cooking the rest.

I've never had to do this. I cook two butts exactly the same way. I pull and slice both of them. Cook them both in whole to the same temps, not one for pulling and one for slicing. Never butterfly them or lay some muscle out like it was a tenderlion. Call me old school.

If you are coming to the Royal. You don't need to slice.

 

[The Pickled Pig]

Gentlemen

First I did not ask regarding the smoke ring and I do know not to judge. I have judged 29 contests around the midwest. We see all kinds of presentations. Some small slices to very large.

I ask questions here to help me become a better judge and the more information I get from teams on their side helps me.

I guess judges get a bad wrap when we try to find out more information and ask questions when all we are trying to do is educate ourselves a little more than what was given in the class and give the best scores on what we are presented. Judges in other parts of the US does not see slices.

Sorry to get your pants in such a wad

I don't think anyone is attacking you RVN. To me, your question is valid and welcome. I appreciate judges that do research and learn their craft. There's been a common thread of controversy here and at other forums regarding judging bias very recently. A little sentiment of that other thread may be lingering.

Gary,
I had this discussion with a board member (in charge of rules) and two very long time, well respected contest reps a year ago. The board member said that this was definitely illegal. The contest reps, who teach CBJ courses, said that it isn't a problem to cut off a hunk of your butt once it reaches temp, and then continue cooking the rest.

I hate to beat this horse that just won't die Todd but can you clarify the statement above for me? What exactly is illegal? Your statement seems to contradict itself. Were you told that cooking the butt to a higher temp after removing the money muscle is okay or were you told that is against the rules?