KCBS Says Cheating Better Than Offending TOTY

[landarc]

Sometimes I'm GLAD I don't compete...:tsk:

Guerry, I do not compete regularly due to physical limitations, but, I highly recommend joining a team of friends and giving it a shot. Although this seems like a load of drama, it is really darned fun. And, there are moments when you get experiences that you cannot get anywhere else.

BBQ comps are not my passion, but, you really are missing out on some fun not having done any at all.

 

[Lake Dogs]

> You want to be the NFL OF BBQ.

They'll be the NFL of BBQ only when the game is the toughest to play and compete, and IMHO MBN FAR outranks KCBS. Couple of Webers and you can compete quite effectively in KCBS. You cant even was dishes in MBN with a few Webers...

Mind you, my opinion. KCBS is the largest sanctioning body, but not the "NFL"...

 

[dmprantz]

> You want to be the NFL OF BBQ.

They'll be the NFL of BBQ only when the game is the toughest to play and compete, and IMHO MBN FAR outranks KCBS. Couple of Webers and you can compete quite effectively in KCBS. You cant even was dishes in MBN with a few Webers...

Mind you, my opinion. KCBS is the largest sanctioning body, but not the "NFL"...

Tell that to MMA. There's an understanding between KCBS and MMA that KCBS is trying to set themselves up as the NFL of BBQ when it comes to the marketing deals and reputation. We'll see. Let's see if the NFL invites the replacement ref from the Seattle/Green Bay game back this year.

Seriously though, comparing Four Meat competitions (KCBS is not the only one) to MBN, MBN definitely requires more cooking space and more meat, but to say that it's harder is something that depends on some one's opionion. I can show up to an MBN event with a case of ribs, cook half in the morning and the other half two hours later, and I'm done, with a shot at GC. Four Meat competitions require, well four meats. they each have to be cooked differently, to come off on a schedule. Some get injected, some get a cooking liquid, some get a mop, some don't get anything. Different prep skills, different rubs, different sauces. Personally, i think that the coordination of having four meats done on a schedule with all the differences is more difficult than cooking a large quantity of one meat. Don't forget, I lived in Memphis and have competed in MIM. I know, you can cook all three in MBN, but you don't have to.

The on-site presentation definitely includes its own challenges and is more difficult than any blind turn in box, but I think that may be outweighed by the time, effort, and skill it takes to turn in non-IBCA chicken (and consistantly win). In the end, opinions vary, and I'm veering off topic. Sorry.

dmp

 

[Lake Dogs]

Tell that to MMA. There's an understanding between KCBS and MMA that KCBS is trying to set themselves up as the NFL of BBQ when it comes to the marketing deals and reputation. We'll see. Let's see if the NFL invites the replacement ref from the Seattle/Green Bay game back this year.

Seriously though, comparing Four Meat competitions (KCBS is not the only one) to MBN, MBN definitely requires more cooking space and more meat, but to say that it's harder is something that depends on some one's opionion. I can show up to an MBN event with a case of ribs, cook half in the morning and the other half two hours later, and I'm done, with a shot at GC. Four Meat competitions require, well four meats. they each have to be cooked differently, to come off on a schedule. Some get injected, some get a cooking liquid, some get a mop, some don't get anything. Different prep skills, different rubs, different sauces. Personally, i think that the coordination of having four meats done on a schedule with all the differences is more difficult than cooking a large quantity of one meant. Don't forget, I lived in Memphis and have competed in MIM.

The on-site presentation definitely includes its own challengers and is more difficult than any blind turn in box, but I think that may be outweighed by the time, effort, and skill it takes to turn in non-IBCA chicken (and consistantly win). In the end, opinions vary, and I'm veering off topic. Sorry.

dmp

I know; I have competed in and judged both. JMHO. I did KCBS by myself with 1 runner. MBN; didnt happen without 4 of us, and we worked our ***es off. Physically harder.

Different rewards, for sure, singularly awesome (MBN) vs. consistently very good (KCBS). One can surely debate which is easier to GC... Another topic for another day...

You're right though; I remember back when you first received your ruling and I though to myself "this is crazy B.S.". Reprimand, yes, but anything else other than warned next time you'll be disqualified, NO. Really, a fake **** drew down that much of a sanction? Rhetorical now, I know...

And then the things that should be policed (cheating, plain and simple, with knowledge and malice), this should be life-long ban IMHO.

 

[SmokinJohn]

I got a headache reading this (especially jumping to read the connected threads). Wow.

DMP: I am sorry you got hosed like that. I don't think the punishment fit the crime, as it did not with the cheating rep. I personally hoped you mud stomped your teammate (or at least made him buy you a new rig).

Today's NFL and NBA, and the EU were the result of mergers decades ago. So it seems to me (and I'm talking off the top of my head) that the other Associations could band together to create a new Association that does away with the unsavory aspects that you (and others I suspect) have seen/been victims of.

There have to be vendors that KCBS doesn't use that would chomp at the bit to be a sugar daddy (Maybe the Chinese, when they take over Smithfield?).

Just my two cents worth.

 

[sitnfat]

I may be wrong but wasn't there a rep that got banned for having a drink on friday night with a team?

 

[peterz]

Damn... I crapped my pants just reading this...

hahahahahahah now thats funny !!!!!!!!! =)

 

[drbbq]

I may be wrong but wasn't there a rep that got banned for having a drink on friday night with a team?

There was a rep that was banned when I was on the board but he got hammered drinking moonshine, blew lunch and passed out in a teams camp. There were plenty on the board that wanted to look the other way cuz he was a good old boy. The next month there was a do-over and he was unsuspended. We later made rules and reps have been reprimanded even including our esteemed Executive Director.

 

[Smoke'n Ice]

There have been instances where I have questioned the validity of the results over the last 15 to 20 years and over 200 contest. The first time, was at one of my first KCBS events and the First KCBS event in Boise, ID. I blew it off and felt maybe I was mistaken.

The second time was in Seattle, WA at one of the first KCBS events in the PNW and again thought it was sour grapes. The third time, which was the charm, was in Worland, WY. After this contest, I now look at the reps and make my decision of weather to attend or not as the same rep was involved in all three instances.

I support the contest depending on the rep and there are times I have let the organizer know this.

If we practice this as a group, it might make a difference as the organizers are the real people whom the BOD must please, not the judges, who outhnumber the cooks or the cooks who show up to enjoy the sport.

 

[Cue's Your Daddy]

Holy cow. Come on dmprantz. You can't start a post and then you don't want to be judged. What your team did was wrong. Don't stir the pot if you don't want to get burnt. You always have a way of putting stuff out there and trying to sound like the innocent victim. This post has lasted 3 pages to many. People need to have the balls to stop beating around the bush and state names and facts. If you would of mentioned names and details then I could get 20 min of my life back. And I do aGree with you that what the rep did is worse then what you did. But I think I would of beat the sh+t out of your teammate if he did that. And I know a lot of people would of joined in.

 

[dmprantz]

I'm trying to turn over a new leaf in life where I don't get sucked into arguments by trolls. As I have said before, this thread is not supposed to relive the old stuff, and is about relative punishments. If any one feels that I have said something wrong or you want to call me names, I have room for a few more messages in my inbox, so let's chat. In the mean time, let's please try to stay on topic.

One thing I will discuss though is the handfull of people who have made comments that they would have physically assaulted my former teamate or me if they had been there. First, I'll say that I don't believe a single one of you! Long distance Internet threats predate when most of you used a mouse. I think you're all full of it. Next, do you realize how much it makes you sound like juvenile hypocrite? "It's not okay for those women and children to see a fake penis, but one man beating another sensless with blood flying everywhere...that's just groovy!" Think about it man. And finally, what makes a you think you would have gotten within three feet of either of us? You have no idea what kind of military or civilian training either of us has. You have no idea which weopons we might have been carrying (You really think Trigg is the only one? We were in the South guys.), and you have no idea how many people there were our friends and would have had our back. That's not to mention the fact that the Police were around. I strongly suggest that that you all cut the bravado crap, or come down to Tennessee. I don't make threats toward any of you because, quite frankly, I'm a reasonable, mature adult. I wish there were more of us around....

dmp

 

[sdbbq1234]

Geez loueez! Is bbq comp about fun and fun only? If so, then get rid of the prizes!

Cheating (lying) is not good! The cheaters are taking away someone's chance for a "prize".

I do not have any tolerance for cheating. It just is not part of my morals and life. I like to win or lose honestly. I have a clean conscience.

op2:

wallace

 

[carlyle]

I was very surprised when I read about the re instatement. Not that he applied. But that the application was accepted. Not enough time for what was admitted to have happened.

Big congrats to the 4 who voted no. Way to go.

I will just say it again, not enough time!

 

[Smokedelic]

I may be mistaken, but isn't the son of the Rep who requested to be reinstated the one who got the contract for the KCBS Score system? The scoring system, which, by the way, has been in development for a couple of years, and has never been put into full operation.

...but I could be wrong.

 

[dmprantz]

I may be mistaken, but isn't the son of the Rep who requested to be reinstated the one who got the contract for the KCBS Score system?

The rep who was recently reinstated is a software developer. Some one with the same first and last names is the former CEO of the company who is developing that software. Both that former CEO and the rep currently report the same employer on public websites, and both have ties to a single sports league (not BBQ). I do not know if they are the same person, related, or complete strangers. This is news to me.

dmp

 

[Hawg Father of Seoul]

What? I hope that is wrong, that is just too much to sound true.

 

[Muzzlebrake]

Objectively looking at it from a distance I think that having score cards falsified on your watch would be a bigger issue that someone wearing inappropriate clothing on your watch.

However subjectively, I can see where a rep that has a record of serving an orginization would draw less of a sentence than a team captain with a history if being quick to criticize an organization. Like it or not, right or wrong, thats not for me to decide but I can see how that could be the case.

Dan you can't really think that continuing to bash the organization and its leadership as a whole and make veiled threats about available weaponry and pugilistic abilities is going to improve your odds of being reinstated early. I don't know what Sonny's argument for being reinstated was but it I'm sure I didn't hurt that he was not airing his grievances publicly.

Also, I don't see where in the notes it states that the rep falsified the score cards. I do see where it states "[I][two tables were short judges, and cards were falsified in the two categories. The rep who called into the meeting could not explain how this happened ] [I]. Based on what I see presented the cards could very well have been falsified by someone else and the rep failed to catch it and/or correct it accordingly to the established criteria.

Sounds very similar to your situation Dan, in that as the contest rep or team head cook, you both were the ones ultimately held accountable for not only your own actions but for others as well.

Furthermore the reps involved were not banned, they were terminated and given the opportunity after one year to reapply for the training program. Sonny also had his credentials as CBJ Instructor terminated but I do not see mention if he will be allowed to once again reapply for this position. I know your ban was 3 years, will you be automatically reinstated at that point or do you have to formally reapply?

 

[SDAR]

I think he meant he woulda beat the crap out of someone on his own team for pulling such a childish act. I wouldn't ever associate with him again at the least. Comparing the two acts is how you started this thread.

 

[dmprantz]

I think he meant he woulda beat the crap out of someone on his own team for pulling such a childish act....Comparing the two acts is how you started this thread.

Respectfully, I disagree. I felt that I started this thread by comparing the punishments more than the actions. Further, he said that he would have assaulted my teamate if he had been there and other teams would have joined in. He's not the first one either. In particular I remember a former correctional officer saying in another forum that he would have gone to prison from attacking us if he had been there. I believe that his intent was to say that as a member of the audience at awards, he would have physically attacked some one on another team for wearing an adult themed apron. If I am wrong and he'd like to clarify his statements, I'll listen, but that's not at all how it came across to me. In the mean time, if you think that that would be appropriate behaviour, then you and I severely disagree.

dmp

 

[SDAR]

I believe comparing the punishments requires comparing the acts. The "dishonesty" is somewhat unclear from my view but I'm a long way away.