KCBS Says Cheating Better Than Offending TOTY

[dmprantz]

Saying the rep cheated is like saying someone wore an apron, there is much more i'm sure to each of those stories.

I know the details of the apron, what is it the rep did exactly?

This is as much information as I have on the issue:

http://www.kcbs.us/news.php?id=513

http://www.kcbs.us/news.php?id=658

SOME ONE cheated, and the rep was helpd accountable for one year. SOME ONE wore an apron, and I was held accountable for three years. I don't disagree that there is more to both stories, but for a group who was so obsessed with the integrity and reputation of the brand, for a group who wants to be "The NFL of the BBQ World," does this further those goals?

dmp

 

[wrenfro12]

So are these the only two people that have been punished by KCBS? Why are we comparing only these two?

 

[Diva]

Thank You. I'm not looking for dirt or rumors, just wanted to know the publicly available information on this issue.

I'm pickin' up what you're layin' down.

It seems that there are a bunch of Rep advisories, etc. but, I don't see any Cook advisories letting us know what/who to watch out for.....

 

[Untraceable]

because one offense is deemed a lapse of judgement and someone harshly punished that had nothing to do with it

and the other offense completely comprimised the entire integrity of the scoring system and got a hand slap in comparision

 

[kenthanson]

So are these the only two people that have been punished by KCBS? Why are we comparing only these two?

Because the OP is the one serving the three year ban and he believes that his punishment is more severe for doing less.

 

[Porcine Perfection]

What a great thread to read right before heading out to my first comp. :icon_frow

 

[Jason TQ]

What a great thread to read right before heading out to my first comp. :icon_frow

These are just 2 scenarios out of the hundreds of competitions that happen a year. You'll have fun. :becky:

That being said, to the OP, they certainly are 2 very important scenarios that bring to light issues with how KCBS is run and how problems are currently dealt with. Hopefully going forward when conversations like these happen it can help turn the mirror on KCBS and tighten up how things are run and people/teams are treated fairly.

The apron was bad, but not 3yrs plus probation bad. It doesn't sound like it was planned. The information presented about the falsifying scorecards seems premeditated and premeditated cheating/falsifying is not acceptable. A 1yr sentence on that is a joke and looks very bad for KCBS and how they deal with issues.

 

[Fat Freddy]

These are just 2 scenarios out of the hundreds of competitions that happen a year. You'll have fun. :becky:

That being said, to the OP, they certainly are 2 very important scenarios that bring to light issues with how KCBS is run and how problems are currently dealt with. Hopefully going forward when conversations like these happen it can help turn the mirror on KCBS and tighten up how things are run and people/teams are treated fairly.

The apron was bad, but not 3yrs plus probation bad. It doesn't sound like it was planned. The information presented about the falsifying scorecards seems premeditated and premeditated cheating/falsifying is not acceptable. A 1yr sentence on that is a joke and looks very bad for KCBS and how they deal with issues.

I dont know if I would call it premeditated, at least not days in advance, but it was messing with the integrity of the blind judging and the integrity of the reps.If there was not enough judges seated then the judges that were should have judged more not just fake card filled out for the entries that didnt have judges. In my opinion what happened to DMP was not right or fair, a 3 year ban, but what was done by Sonny Ashford was 10X worse, and more importantly I know for an absolute 100% fact that there was at least 1 team that will not do KCBS directly because of the North Platte issue. I wonder how many teams quit KCBS because of the apron incident??

I am not defending the apron issue, though I feel Daniel was punished to extremes, and I have no clue what happened at Myrtle Beach. But in my opinion the North Platte incident was much much worse and I personally am disgusted that the rep can be reinstated so soon.

Sorry about not naming names earlier, I was trying to have fun with it before I got all pi$$ed off about it again.

 

[deguerre]

I know for an absolute 100% fact that there was at least 1 team that will not do KCBS directly because of the North Platte issue. I wonder how many teams quit KCBS because of the apron incident??

Well, KCBS will never, EVER, see any of my money after this. Not even for a Restaurant Depot day pass if I never decide to actually compete one day.

 

[Jason TQ]

I dont know if I would call it premeditated, at least not days in advance, but it was messing with the integrity of the blind judging and the integrity of the reps.If there was not enough judges seated then the judges that were should have judged more not just fake card filled out for the entries that didnt have judges. In my opinion what happened to DMP was not right or fair, a 3 year ban, but what was done by Sonny Ashford was 10X worse, and more importantly I know for an absolute 100% fact that there was at least 1 team that will not do KCBS directly because of the North Platte issue. I wonder how many teams quit KCBS because of the apron incident??

I am not defending the apron issue, though I feel Daniel was punished to extremes, and I have no clue what happened at Myrtle Beach. But in my opinion the North Platte incident was much much worse and I personally am disgusted that the rep can be reinstated so soon.

Sorry about not naming names earlier, I was trying to have fun with it before I got all pi$$ed off about it again.

Yeah, premeditated isn't exactly the right word from the standpoint that it wasn't planned a lot ahead of time. But sounds like when they realized there were short 2 judges the rep had a choice at that point. To fess up and say "oh crap we are short 2 judges" or think for a minute and decide/plan "falsifying these 2 scorecards is a much better option". Better to cheat/falsify than look foolish is the route that was taken.

Cheating/falsifying is so much the worse offender here.

 

[txschutte]

If you are really wondering Chris I wont drop names, but what I will say is maybe if you happen to look at KCBS events in Nebraska in 2012 and accidentally look at reps at say the North Platte contest, you might be on the right track.

The chitty thing about that whole situation for my team was that was when we got our first walk. After I found out the scoop, it really cheapened my teams thoughts about our walk.

Now, we don't even really know if we did or didn't. That sucks, especially for first timers that blow a bunch of money just to try it out.

I applaud the BOD members that voted no.

 

[hogzgonewild]

I guess I'm playing devil's advocate here, but when I read the KCBS article presented, I don't feel that the word "cheated" is correct to use in regards to the Reps.

It seems that the Mistake the reps made was not verifying that there were enough judges at each table, and fixing that issue.

During the judging, it is my experience that the Reps are away from the cook tables. Is it possible that the Reps didn't realize the issue of being 2 judges short and didn't notice til time to tally up the scores?

If that is possible, then it seems the judges did the best thing they could at that point. They averaged the other 4 cards to create the additional two scores, which seems to be the rule for "missing score cards" per KCBS.

What I'm saying, is, from the first 4 pages of this thread, you would think the Reps falsified scores on purpose to help a team achieve a higher standing. From the KCBS meeting minutes, I don't see that as being the case in my eyes.

Think of it this way....if they were trying to help out a team, why would they average the scores instead of taking the highest....Averaging probably lead to some 8's instead of 9's.


Again, I may be playing devil's advocate, but I don't feel that anyone should be bashed when most of us only know the details listed in 4-5 lines on the KCBS website.

Now I will also comment on the Apron subject, since like it or not, if you bring up this thread as a "response" to your punishment, you've got to know its going to be talked about.....

As far as that situation, A person on the team made a deliberate choice to wear something inappropriate to awards. As the father of a small child, and knowing how many children were potentially in attendance, I have no remorse for any punishment of the individual, up to a permanent ban of KCBS events.

For DMPRANTZ, I agree that as the team captain, its your job to be aware of who is on your team and you are responsible for those people. I do hope that the event and KCBS includes something along those lines in their rules and Regulations, as it should be. I would not dare include anyone on my team who would perform such a morally offensive act, and have no problems with KCBS or events banning/punishing teams who do. I think 1-2 years would have been sufficient, but we elect the KCBS officials, and they took a vote on it, so it is what it is.

 

[Trucky1008]

What would have happened if this had been an Sam's Club event you think?
dmp

Well, based on my experience with a rules violation at a Sam's Club event nothing would have happened.

 

[Shiz-Nit]

What a great thread to read right before heading out to my first comp. :icon_frow

Dont worry... Go out and have fun, dont get drunk during your cook, follow your check list.

BBQ Comps are real fun and you will meet some very good people indeed!!!

 

[dmprantz]

Respectfully....

it seems the judges did the best thing they could at that point. They averaged the other 4 cards to create the additional two scores, which seems to be the rule for "missing score cards" per KCBS.

Either you or I is misreading what happened. The way I read it is the following statement:

"cards were falsified in the two categories."

The averaging procedure which you later describe is what I took to happen by the KCBS after the cheating had been detected, not the original actions. If some one knows more about this situation and would like to correct my enterpretation, please do so.

Now I will also comment on the Apron subject, since like it or not, if you bring up this thread as a "response" to your punishment, you've got to know its going to be talked about.....

For DMPRANTZ, I agree that as the team captain, its your job to be aware of who is on your team and you are responsible for those people.

Once again, my issue here is that the punishment for wearing an adult themed apron is more severe than the punishment for submitting false scores (I'd call that cheating). Whatever you think the appropriate punishment should have been for me, if you think that having a lesser punishment for some one associated with cheating, well that's your opinion, but that's the topic at hand.

And, while I don't want to turn this into that long argument, I was not the "team captain," but was the "head cook," and again, that was because I filled out the applications. We were a team, not a military organization with ranks and hierarchy. What's more, despite all the yelling, the KCBS rules do not indicate that the head cook is responsible solely and punishable for the actions of all team members. That's a longer topic, but the implications that that is written are false.

dmp

 

[dmprantz]

Well, based on my experience with a rules violation at a Sam's Club event nothing would have happened.

lol. I laugh because you might be referencing the team that was caught cheating at a Sam's Club local and given a do-over...they ended up going all the way to Bentonville if I recall.

I also laugh because a member of the 2012 BOd who voted to ban me said that he did it in large part because if the apron had been worn at a Sam's Club event, that series would not have been repeated, so three years was good. Still, cheaters are allowed to advance at Sam's Club, and the fear of the Sam's Club contract doesn't seem to be good enough to keep reps associated with cheaters out of the organization.

I'm really seeing a trend here of cheaters being punished less harshly than some one who wore an adult themed apron. Protect that reputaiton KCBS. You want to be the NFL OF BBQ. I think the Blacksocks of BBQ may be more like it.

dmp

 

[Scottie]

for those wondering...

yes, we're watching.

:mod:

Damn... I crapped my pants just reading this...

 

[Scottie]

The Rep in question is Sonny Ashford.

It kills me that there's 4 pages to this thread and nobody has the cajones to name the person.

I believe it is in the quick notes as well...

 

[que_dawg]

Well, based on my experience with a rules violation at a Sam's Club event nothing would have happened.

It would depend on whether you pulled up in a $100,000 motor home or if you were cooking under a couple of pop up tents and no one knew who you were. #SAMSisoverrated :caked:

 

[landarc]

What a great thread to read right before heading out to my first comp. :icon_frow

JP, your biggest worry, if judge number 6 ask you to pick up the soap he dropped, decline.

By and large, the KCBS does a lot for BBQ in the form of having built up Competitive BBQ. That may be a more grand statement than it needs to be, but, still, it has worked out well overall. There are bound to be issues, and I believe this is pointing one out. But, any group of people, especially a large diverse one, is bound to have problems like this.