Long brisket hold skeptic

[oldgfbbq]

I cut my BBQ teeth seemingly before long brisket hold was in vogue. When did it start and why? I can understand how it could make a "less than desirable" result a little better, ei more tender. But, if a brisket is done properly, IMHO, it should not need anything but a little rest for juices to get settled before slicing. My thought is the first two hours after a brisket is done, is when it is the best in terms of taste, juiciness, and texture.

I have not competed in BBQ contests, but wonder if the judges say, "Wow, imagine how good this would be after a 10-12 hour hold!"

My thought is that restaurants do it to accommodate cooking schedules and save labor costs. What am I missing?

 

[frayedend]

I’m no restaurant but I do it to accommodate cooking schedules. No downside that I’ve seen.

 

[SmokinAussie]

My usual hold is a minimum of 4 hours. It means you have a huge window of time for doing anything else in a prep for a BBQ dinner with guests, which is really why I do it. It turns out the longer rest really does help a brisket, even if you've undershot it a bit.

 

[Callahan-que]

I've never rested a brisket very long.

 

[Wood Fire Steel]

If you have ever used a sous vide to cook a chuck steak you can see why a long hold helps. I tuff chuck steak held for 24-36 at 140f turns into a super tender steak that is not falling apart or mushy like it would if you cooked it at a higher temp for a long time. It just breaks down the fat without overcooking the meat. If you nail the cook I agree that you may not need to hold longer than an hour to let the temp come down to retain moisture. That being said, even very accomplished cooks have a hard time nailing brisket 100% of the time. It is just an insurance policy to give you a higher percentage of hitting perfect brisket more consistently and it is ready when you are.

 

[oldgfbbq]

If you have ever used a sous vide to cook a chuck steak you can see why a long hold helps. I tuff chuck steak held for 24-36 at 140f turns into a super tender steak that is not falling apart or mushy like it would if you cooked it at a higher temp for a long time. It just breaks down the fat without overcooking the meat. If you nail the cook I agree that you may not need to hold longer than an hour to let the temp come down to retain moisture. That being said, even very accomplished cooks have a hard time nailing brisket 100% of the time. It is just an insurance policy to give you a higher percentage of hitting perfect brisket more consistently and it is ready when you are.

How does one determine how long to hold to achieve the perfect brisket? What happens if you hold an almost perfect brisket too long? IE a brisket that only needs 4 hours of hold to achieve perfection that is actually held 8 hours? Do you end up with a brisket that is further away from perfection than when you started the hold? Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand.

 

[Beefslapchest]

How does one determine how long to hold to achieve the perfect brisket? What happens if you hold an almost perfect brisket too long? IE a brisket that only needs 4 hours of hold to achieve perfection that is actually held 8 hours? Do you end up with a brisket that is further away from perfection than when you started the hold? Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand.

I'd say there are too many variables to know for sure, such as the brisket weight, meat grade (choice, prime, etc), how long and at what temp the brisket was smoked, and it can even come down to the particular cow it came from.

As others have mentioned the long hold is partly for convenience especially with offset smokers where you're babysitting the fire. Smoking ahead of time with a 12-17 hr hold lets me get some sleep.

Another factor is the collagen breakdown, which is a function of time as well as temperature. Cooking to the magic temperature of doneness, in that 200-210 range, where the collagen has broken down and the meat probes like butter, can result in a pot roast like texture even if it's not dry. Nothing wrong with that, it's just a preference thing.

Smoking to 190 internal and then holding at around 150 for a long period breaks down the collagen gradually and can preserve a beefier taste and texture. It takes some of the guess work out of when to pull the brisket and avoids over cooking the brisket. This can however cause the bark to get mushy and soggy. There are always tradeoffs.

 

[smoke ninja]

the long active hold has been used forever but has gained popularity in recent years. here's why I started doing it

timing or rather convenience of timing. no need to pull all nighters or cook during a party. foods done well before anything is going down.

the hotter you cook a brisket the less of a window of perfection you have. cooking at a lower temp you give longer but incorporating this into a hold gives you nearly an indefinite window.

one can definitely pull this off without an active hold or even just a short rest but it is harder and with more variables. most comp cooks brisket is off and resting in a cambro while the ribs amd chicken cook, several hours before turn in. they are doing something similar but for not nearly as long

 

[Itsdone]

I don't want to get really scientific about this but 205F is not the "perfect" doneness for brisket. Its just the generally accepted temp in which collagen has been fully rendered. Collagen gradually breaks down the higher the IT gets. There is also a temp at which the muscle reaches the traditionally accepted texture for brisket. In my opinion, that temp is 185F- 190F. Reaching that temp, and holding at a much lower temp like 150F for a long time like 12 hours produces in my opinion the perfect texture to doneness ratio without drying the meat out. in my opinion 205F brisket is pot roast.

 

[Wood Fire Steel]

How does one determine how long to hold to achieve the perfect brisket? What happens if you hold an almost perfect brisket too long? IE a brisket that only needs 4 hours of hold to achieve perfection that is actually held 8 hours? Do you end up with a brisket that is further away from perfection than when you started the hold? Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand.

Remember you are no longer cooking the brisket. You are holding it at 140-145 ( food safety). You achieved your high temp before removing and resting at room temp until it gets around 145-150f. The rest just allows the muscle fibers to relax from the tension the higher temps put on them. A great brisket remains great, a good brisket gets better. I have never had a brisket that was allowed to cool to 150 get worse from holding for 2-6 hours. Restaurants hold longer. The only disadvantage I have ever seen is if held longer than 4 hours after getting to 150 it tends to oxidize quicker after cutting getting that grey color a little quicker.

However, the beauty of bbq is that it is your bbq cook it like you want.

 

[blackdogbbq21]

My best understanding is it started with restaurants that needed to get the briskets off for pit space to cook ribs and any other meats they serve. I think word got out that popular restaurants long hot hold and it took off like the tallow craze.



It's a technique i use because it makes cooking a brisket on a stick burner a whole lot more enjoyable for me. I don't think it's a must to make a good brisket but only once i have thought that i held a brisket too long so i keep doing it.

 

[pmad]

As someone who has smoked a few briskets but has not nailed it down and is far far away from protection, if you're doing a long hold, why not just go into a sous vide where you can control that hold?

 

[ttkt57]

Why be skeptical of a process used by many great restaurants with fantastic results?

 

[oldgfbbq]

Why be skeptical of a process used by many great restaurants with fantastic results?

I'm not skeptical about it in a restaurant setting, it's the family/friends party in the backyard where the serving window is greatly compressed. I suppose one reason I'm a skeptic is that I have had, on several occasions restaurant brisket, supposedly cooked "last night" that had texture that was soft and mushy. I guess for sake of context, i don't like my ribs "fall off the bone" tender, but rather needing a bit of a bite. Maybe this will help, I think brisket should be firmer than a juicy hamburger, stiffer than filet or ribeye.

My skepticism stems from not believing a piece of meat can be held at 140 degrees for over eight hours and not have some physical change take place. I think it continually gets softer. Sounds like I need to try it. But I do know from experience that both brisket and pulled pork will undergo change when held in food warmers for an extended period of time. Maybe if they are wrapped up in pink/peach butcher paper and placed in a cooler it would be different.

 

[4ever3]

Only one way to find out, A vs. B.

 

[SmokinAussie]

As someone who has smoked a few briskets but has not nailed it down and is far far away from protection, if you're doing a long hold, why not just go into a sous vide where you can control that hold?

Because that's a big vac sealer required and a big water bath assuming you are not slicing and bagging first. You'd want to keep it complete as long as possible IMO.

Having said that, I've done the following on a few occasions with excellent results: Smoke to 190-195. Wrap in foil, 2 large towels and a foam cooler box. Leave it there overnight. Some of you will freak out about this Danger Zone thingy. Pfffft. Slice and vac seal the next morning. Freeze for the big day. Warm bags required to 150F in a water bath. Cut bag for service.

No complaints. My brother, who has spent a long time in the USA has had this and said it's the best he ever had. QC group of one however.

 

[oldgfbbq]

Because that's a big vac sealer required and a big water bath assuming you are not slicing and bagging first. You'd want to keep it complete as long as possible IMO.

Having said that, I've done the following on a few occasions with excellent results: Smoke to 190-195. Wrap in foil, 2 large towels and a foam cooler box. Leave it there overnight. Some of you will freak out about this Danger Zone thingy. Pfffft. Slice and vac seal the next morning. Freeze for the big day. Warm bags required to 150F in a water bath. Cut bag for service.

No complaints. My brother, who has spent a long time in the USA has had this and said it's the best he ever had. QC group of one however.

Something that has worked well for me, ........let brisket cool to about 165-170, then wrap tightly in two layers of plastic wrap, then wrap well with aluminum foil, and into the fridge after further cooling. Two hours before serving time, put entire "package" into 200 degree oven until hot. Once hot or near hot, remove the all wrapping and switch oven to a convection setting to crisp up the bark.

 

[jrTheSmoker]

Granted I have only made a handful of briskets, but the only one I've "holt-held" in 150*F turkey roaster after smoking on my offset to 185-190 IT and resting for 12 hours, then cooling and placing in fridge, then cutting and reheating in the smoked tallow the next day, was the best I've ever done by a long shot. Less chance of overcooking and tasting like a pot roast, as well as plenty of time for it to rest and become tender, allowing me the ability to enjoy it and complete the whole brisket experience, versus eating dog tired cause I'm hungry and tired and want to go to bed and do nothing for a day.

 

[JAKs Q & brew]

Lots of great opinions already. A few things I will add
1. You definitely need to cook a brisket you intend to hold for over 6 hours differently than on you will hold for less or one you will serve ASAP.
2. Long holds can help 'save' a brisket that was a bit over cooked or a bit undercooked with slightly different procedures. For overcooked i unwrap, let it cool to 140 then rewrap in the same butcher paper, then foil then hold. For undercooked it is left wrapped, cooled to 160 then wrapped in 2 layers of plastic wrap then foil then hold.
3. 20 minutes back on the pit after the hold might be needed if the bark got too soft.

 

[smoke ninja]

I'm not skeptical about it in a restaurant setting, it's the family/friends party in the backyard where the serving window is greatly compressed. I suppose one reason I'm a skeptic is that I have had, on several occasions restaurant brisket, supposedly cooked "last night" that had texture that was soft and mushy. I guess for sake of context, i don't like my ribs "fall off the bone" tender, but rather needing a bit of a bite. Maybe this will help, I think brisket should be firmer than a juicy hamburger, stiffer than filet or ribeye.

My skepticism stems from not believing a piece of meat can be held at 140 degrees for over eight hours and not have some physical change take place. I think it continually gets softer. Sounds like I need to try it. But I do know from experience that both brisket and pulled pork will undergo change when held in food warmers for an extended period of time. Maybe if they are wrapped up in pink/peach butcher paper and placed in a cooler it would be different.

stiffer than a fillet or ribeye...I don't think that is what is considered well cooked brisket. a proper brisket is soft, fork tender.