It seems to cook faster than other types of smokers that I have used over the years. It was 14lbs, trimmed to 10ish. I cooked it at 275, to an internal of 203 before probing. I'll never do that again! You can see in the picture of the slices that it was a little dry and grainy. I melted the trimmed fat for tallow which helped but should not have needed it. Do you guys find that they cook quicker? It is a smallish brisket and only took 8 hours. I let it go to 203 before checking it because I thought that was a little soon. I knew as soon as I picked it up that it was a little stiff on the bottom while the top was still jiggly. Live and learn!!!
First brisket on new Shirley not my best
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sackedbysapp
Full Fledged Farker
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- Mar 20, 2014
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- floral...
Maybe it need more time? Was it probe tender?
Fishwater2002
Full Fledged Farker
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It seems to be a common theme that these cook quicker than traditional flow offsets but I haven’t really found that to be the case with mine. I have a two shelf model on my 42” vs the three shelf on the 36” so I tend to cook everything on the top shelf & in the middle if possible, on my cooker that’s the sweet spot.
I feel like it's deja vu all over again (for me). Hey at least, you didn't pull a bonehead move like me and put it on the bottom grate! :laugh:
Seriously, your brisket looks a lot better than mine did. Our experiences are very similar. I'm kinda pumped for the next cook, really. So much so, the Mrs may drive me down to the old costco for another brisket tomorrow.
Seriously, your brisket looks a lot better than mine did. Our experiences are very similar. I'm kinda pumped for the next cook, really. So much so, the Mrs may drive me down to the old costco for another brisket tomorrow.
SeenRed
Full Fledged Farker
I find that - even with an experienced pitmaster - it seems like there's a bit of a learning curve with every new cooker. I'll bet you've got it dialed in by the next brisket.
Nice smoker, BTW!
Red
Nice smoker, BTW!
Red
What a sweet pit!
A few suggestions:
Don't cook to a specific temp. Temp is just your guide. It irks me when I hear 203* (no offense and not directed towards you)
If you're monitoring internal temp, probe where the flat and point meet on the thicker side
Cook to a color you like before wrapping IF you're going to wrap
Pull when the thickest point of the flat is probe tender. Basically going in and out smooth like butter. Not totally like butter because there will be some resistance but when your probe goes in and out smooth with minimal effort.
Most importantly, the REST is equally as important as the whole cook process. I personally pull and vent the brisket until the temps stop rising. Usually when I stop seeing steam and the temps stall at about 180*. Wrap it back up and rest for at least 2 hours.
Or
You can pull out a little early and put it in your holding vessel without opening the wrap.
My best brisket as of late have been the ones that were cooked the way I explained above but having it rest in a turkey roaster for 10-12 hours. You obviously have to cook ahead to compensate the rest and serving time but way worth it IMHO.
A few suggestions:
Don't cook to a specific temp. Temp is just your guide. It irks me when I hear 203* (no offense and not directed towards you)
If you're monitoring internal temp, probe where the flat and point meet on the thicker side
Cook to a color you like before wrapping IF you're going to wrap
Pull when the thickest point of the flat is probe tender. Basically going in and out smooth like butter. Not totally like butter because there will be some resistance but when your probe goes in and out smooth with minimal effort.
Most importantly, the REST is equally as important as the whole cook process. I personally pull and vent the brisket until the temps stop rising. Usually when I stop seeing steam and the temps stall at about 180*. Wrap it back up and rest for at least 2 hours.
Or
You can pull out a little early and put it in your holding vessel without opening the wrap.
My best brisket as of late have been the ones that were cooked the way I explained above but having it rest in a turkey roaster for 10-12 hours. You obviously have to cook ahead to compensate the rest and serving time but way worth it IMHO.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2013
- Location
- Denver, CO
Universal rule that first cook on new smoker never meets expectations! Too much mental buildup. The good news is that next cook is always better!
At times like these, I always think of going back to basics with this thread:
Basic Brisket Tutorial
Sadly the pics are no longer available due to #photopharket
But the text is just as relevent today:
The next question I am not going to answer is "what temp was it done"? I have no idea what the temperature was, and frankly, I don't care. What I am interested in is having a tender, juicy like-a-brisket. So temperature does not matter. Tenderness does. It was done when my probe slid in like a hot knife through butter. Now, by chance, the probe I used was my Thermopen, and it did say 207.4 on that last probe, but again, I was not trying to actually take the temperature but instead was focusing on the tenderness. I also did not go by time, but by tenderness. I did happen to notice that it was done after 6 hours and 45 minutes, but that was not how I determined it was done.
Not that I do a lot of briskets these days but when I do, the IT is indeed irrelevent.
Cheers
Bill
Basic Brisket Tutorial
Sadly the pics are no longer available due to #photopharket
But the text is just as relevent today:
The next question I am not going to answer is "what temp was it done"? I have no idea what the temperature was, and frankly, I don't care. What I am interested in is having a tender, juicy like-a-brisket. So temperature does not matter. Tenderness does. It was done when my probe slid in like a hot knife through butter. Now, by chance, the probe I used was my Thermopen, and it did say 207.4 on that last probe, but again, I was not trying to actually take the temperature but instead was focusing on the tenderness. I also did not go by time, but by tenderness. I did happen to notice that it was done after 6 hours and 45 minutes, but that was not how I determined it was done.
Not that I do a lot of briskets these days but when I do, the IT is indeed irrelevent.
Cheers
Bill
One other thing to consider is how much internal marbling was in the brisket? I often cook the Kroger briskets and, at best, they are choice grade and every once in a while end up nicely marbled. My boss asked me to cook a couple of briskets for an event at work last year and since it was the company dime, I suggested a prime packer and a prime Angus flat for me to cook, and there was a lot of difference with those in the finished quality than I usually run into with the choice briskets.
I agree and do cook to tenderness and soft probe. I watch my temp probes until it gets to 196ish and then I start feeling the meat for a little bend and giggle and start probing for tenderness. When this one got to 195, I put one more split on and went into the house for a few minutes which turned into 25/30 minutes. When I came out it was 203 and probed pretty well but I could tell the bottom was a little stiff feeling. So I pulled it, unwrapped it for a while, rewrapped and let it sit for 3 hours on the counter wrapped in paper but uncovered. I was shocked that the temp rose that much in such a short time. I know now that the last 30 minutes or so of the cook are the most crucial. It does cook faster than all of the other pits that I have had over the years.
Thanks for everyone's comments.
1MoreFord
Babbling Farker
Bill gave you Biggies brisket tutorial.
Bigabyte's, or Bludawg's brisket recipes are the most mentioned around the Brethren.
Here's Bludawg's version
BluDawgs Brisket
K.I S.S. some of the best brisket you will ever eat! Total cook time including the rest 8 hrs or less. I promise it will be as moist as mornin dew on the lilly, tender as a mothers love, pure beefy smoky goodness.
1 packer 12-15 lb
Trim off the hard fat on each side of the flat thin the fat cap to 1/4"
Mix your Rub
1 part kosher salt 4 parts Med grind Black peppa by volume( this is a true 50/50 BY weight)
apply a coat of rub you need to be able to see the meat through the rub clearly.
Pre heat the pit to 300 deg
place brisket on the pit Fat Cap Down and point to the firebox unless it is a RF cooker then point to away from FB
Maintain pit between 275-325 if cookin on a stick burner
cook Brisket 4 hrs
remove from pit wrap in a single layer of Butcher paper Return to pit Fat cap up.
after 1 hr probe the thicket part of the Flat only! If it isn't *probe tender it should be within 1 hr.
once it is probe tender remove from the pit keep it wrapped in the paper you cooked it in and allow it to rest on your counter until the Internal temp reaches 150 this will take about two hrs.
Don't ever slice more than you can eat big pieces retain moisture and won't dry up on you like slices will.
*PROBE TENDER>This is the feel that is mimicked by cutting room temperature butter with a hot knife, there should be no drag
Bigabyte's, or Bludawg's brisket recipes are the most mentioned around the Brethren.
Here's Bludawg's version
BluDawgs Brisket
K.I S.S. some of the best brisket you will ever eat! Total cook time including the rest 8 hrs or less. I promise it will be as moist as mornin dew on the lilly, tender as a mothers love, pure beefy smoky goodness.
1 packer 12-15 lb
Trim off the hard fat on each side of the flat thin the fat cap to 1/4"
Mix your Rub
1 part kosher salt 4 parts Med grind Black peppa by volume( this is a true 50/50 BY weight)
apply a coat of rub you need to be able to see the meat through the rub clearly.
Pre heat the pit to 300 deg
place brisket on the pit Fat Cap Down and point to the firebox unless it is a RF cooker then point to away from FB
Maintain pit between 275-325 if cookin on a stick burner
cook Brisket 4 hrs
remove from pit wrap in a single layer of Butcher paper Return to pit Fat cap up.
after 1 hr probe the thicket part of the Flat only! If it isn't *probe tender it should be within 1 hr.
once it is probe tender remove from the pit keep it wrapped in the paper you cooked it in and allow it to rest on your counter until the Internal temp reaches 150 this will take about two hrs.
Don't ever slice more than you can eat big pieces retain moisture and won't dry up on you like slices will.
*PROBE TENDER>This is the feel that is mimicked by cutting room temperature butter with a hot knife, there should be no drag
!
Gotcha! I guess I misread your post about the temp because there is a 203* specific myth that is all over the iternet so I thought you took it to 203 on the dot.
It's just a matter of time. God knows how many briskets I cooked before I finally became happy with the outcome. Also, good briskets to start with make a pretty significant difference.
Gotcha! I guess I misread your post about the temp because there is a 203* specific myth that is all over the iternet so I thought you took it to 203 on the dot.
It's just a matter of time. God knows how many briskets I cooked before I finally became happy with the outcome. Also, good briskets to start with make a pretty significant difference.
Thanks, Joe. Believe it or not, I have a printed copy of Bludawg's recipe sitting on my desk next to my notepad where I record all of my cooks. I look at it all of the time and think, Gee, I need to try this, lol. It would have saved the cook!
Fsonicsmith
Knows what a fatty is.
- Joined
- May 1, 2014
- Location
- Columbus...
Don't forget the adage made popular in the BBQ Pitmaster series-"If it were easy everyone would do it".
I owned a Shirley Patio and now have the Shirley 94T. They are fantastic but they are a tool. The quality of the smoker does not make getting a great result with brisket automatic or even close, just like having the best set of Milwaukee tools won't make it a done deal that your attempt to finish your basement will come out well.
In general I believe that when the brisket is crumbly it is overcooked and when it is tough it is undercooked. If it dry it is due to the quality of the meat and potentially too long of cook exposed (unwrapped).
My advice, take notes and mix things up until you start reliably getting good results. I found the Shirley Patio to be both easy and tricky to use. A paradox for sure. Fire management is critical with all offsets but with the smallish firebox of the Patio you really need to take care . The V-basket helps. Smaller splits and a great coal bed helps. Don't dame the stack too much and don't close down the firebox vent too much-you need all the draw you can get while keeping the temps moderate, i.e, fire management.
All in all, I suspect you got a so-so result due to a mediocre brisket and not wrapping soon enough but that is a wild-arsed guess.
I owned a Shirley Patio and now have the Shirley 94T. They are fantastic but they are a tool. The quality of the smoker does not make getting a great result with brisket automatic or even close, just like having the best set of Milwaukee tools won't make it a done deal that your attempt to finish your basement will come out well.
In general I believe that when the brisket is crumbly it is overcooked and when it is tough it is undercooked. If it dry it is due to the quality of the meat and potentially too long of cook exposed (unwrapped).
My advice, take notes and mix things up until you start reliably getting good results. I found the Shirley Patio to be both easy and tricky to use. A paradox for sure. Fire management is critical with all offsets but with the smallish firebox of the Patio you really need to take care . The V-basket helps. Smaller splits and a great coal bed helps. Don't dame the stack too much and don't close down the firebox vent too much-you need all the draw you can get while keeping the temps moderate, i.e, fire management.
All in all, I suspect you got a so-so result due to a mediocre brisket and not wrapping soon enough but that is a wild-arsed guess.
Fsonicsmith
Knows what a fatty is.
- Joined
- May 1, 2014
- Location
- Columbus...
Don't forget the adage made popular in the BBQ Pitmaster series-"If it were easy everyone would do it".
I owned a Shirley Patio and now have the Shirley 94T. They are fantastic but they are a tool. The quality of the smoker does not make getting a great result with brisket automatic or even close, just like having the best set of Milwaukee tools won't make it a done deal that your attempt to finish your basement will come out well.
In general I believe that when the brisket is crumbly it is overcooked and when it is tough it is undercooked. If it dry it is due to the quality of the meat and potentially too long of cook exposed (unwrapped).
My advice, take notes and mix things up until you start reliably getting good results. I found the Shirley Patio to be both easy and tricky to use. A paradox for sure. Fire management is critical with all offsets but with the smallish firebox of the Patio you really need to take care . The V-basket helps. Smaller splits and a great coal bed helps. Don't dame the stack too much and don't close down the firebox vent too much-you need all the draw you can get while keeping the temps moderate, i.e, fire management.
All in all, I suspect you got a so-so result due to a mediocre brisket and not wrapping soon enough but that is a wild-arsed guess.
I owned a Shirley Patio and now have the Shirley 94T. They are fantastic but they are a tool. The quality of the smoker does not make getting a great result with brisket automatic or even close, just like having the best set of Milwaukee tools won't make it a done deal that your attempt to finish your basement will come out well.
In general I believe that when the brisket is crumbly it is overcooked and when it is tough it is undercooked. If it dry it is due to the quality of the meat and potentially too long of cook exposed (unwrapped).
My advice, take notes and mix things up until you start reliably getting good results. I found the Shirley Patio to be both easy and tricky to use. A paradox for sure. Fire management is critical with all offsets but with the smallish firebox of the Patio you really need to take care . The V-basket helps. Smaller splits and a great coal bed helps. Don't dame the stack too much and don't close down the firebox vent too much-you need all the draw you can get while keeping the temps moderate, i.e, fire management.
All in all, I suspect you got a so-so result due to a mediocre brisket and not wrapping soon enough but that is a wild-arsed guess.
As some mentioned, it could've been a tough brisket to start. Do try the Bludawg method! I have used it for the last 10+ briskets with excellent results. I do find mine takes a bit longer than his recipe calls for but that's probably because I always err a bit towards the "just barely overdone" side of brisket as I dislike underdone brisket and years ago I tended to always pull my briskets too early. I also hold it (150F oven or FTC) for a few hours (2+) rest. If it was tough on the bottom, are you sure it wasn't just a little underdone? Though, with your experience, I'd lean towards a tough brisket to start.
I've don't do too much trimming nowdays. I just get off the big stuff. I used to spend an hour carefully trimming, now I spend 5-10min max. I cant decide if I do that because it's "good enough" or if I've just become lazy
For fun (I was feeling adventurous after a few beers), I injected my last brisket with chicken broth with great results. I wrapped a trimmed brisket in saran wrap, injected a whole can worth, put it back in the fridge (still wrapped) overnight. Pulled it out the next morning, seasoned the outside, and put it on the fire. Turned out pretty darn great so I'll try it again on the next brisket.
Get another brisket and cook away! Those Shirleys are very nice!
I've don't do too much trimming nowdays. I just get off the big stuff. I used to spend an hour carefully trimming, now I spend 5-10min max. I cant decide if I do that because it's "good enough" or if I've just become lazy
For fun (I was feeling adventurous after a few beers), I injected my last brisket with chicken broth with great results. I wrapped a trimmed brisket in saran wrap, injected a whole can worth, put it back in the fridge (still wrapped) overnight. Pulled it out the next morning, seasoned the outside, and put it on the fire. Turned out pretty darn great so I'll try it again on the next brisket.
Get another brisket and cook away! Those Shirleys are very nice!
As some mentioned, it could've been a tough brisket to start. Do try the Bludawg method! I have used it for the last 10+ briskets with excellent results. I do find mine takes a bit longer than his recipe calls for but that's probably because I always err a bit towards the "just barely overdone" side of brisket as I dislike underdone brisket and years ago I tended to always pull my briskets too early. I also hold it (150F oven or FTC) for a few hours (2+) rest. If it was tough on the bottom, are you sure it wasn't just a little underdone? Though, with your experience, I'd lean towards a tough brisket to start.
I've don't do too much trimming nowdays. I just get off the big stuff. I used to spend an hour carefully trimming, now I spend 5-10min max. I cant decide if I do that because it's "good enough" or if I've just become lazy
For fun (I was feeling adventurous after a few beers), I injected my last brisket with chicken broth with great results. I wrapped a trimmed brisket in saran wrap, injected a whole can worth, put it back in the fridge (still wrapped) overnight. Pulled it out the next morning, seasoned the outside, and put it on the fire. Turned out pretty darn great so I'll try it again on the next brisket.
Get another brisket and cook away! Those Shirleys are very nice!
Thanks, Patrick, I will try the Bludawg recipe. I have been meaning to for a long time and it is time that I pulled the trigger on it. I will admit that brisket confuses me. I have a hard time being convinced whether it is over or under-cooked. Or in this case, whether it was just a bad hunk of meat or not. We are doing a nearly all-carnivore diet and eat ribeyes at least twice a week. I have gotten good at knowing when they are medium rare and I always cook two at the same time. We also try to choose two steaks of nearly the same weight each time and it is quite often that one will be tender and the other chewy to the point that your jaw gets tired from all of the chewing, lol. So I know that the chance of getting a bad piece of meat is real.
Then there is the question of whether it is tough or dry and crumbly. This one seemed to have a little of both. The top wasn't tough and was juicy but the bottom was tough and had a stiff feel when I picked it up. I like it when it has a nice relaxed little bend to it when I pick it up and bounce it a little.
I also have a hard time knowing for sure how it feels when I probe it through butcher paper. There is a lot of resistance while getting the probe through the paper, and then feeling the resistance of the meat. I would rather unwrap it to probe if it weren't such a PITA mess doing so and letting the heat out, prolonging the cook if it has to go back in for a while. Of course, maybe it wouldn't be a bad thing at that point to put it back in unwrapped to restore the bark a little anyway. There are a lot of considerations like that with brisket that make it different and a bit more difficult than other proteins. Especially when I only cook one every month or so.
So no I am not sure if it may have been undercooked or not. I have been scratching my noodle about that possibility too.
I usually don't trim brisket too much either. Since we are on a meat diet, which is actually more of a fatty meat diet, (animal fat in the absence of carbohydrates, encourages the body to release and burn body fat), more fat is a good thing! However, for once I decided on this brisket to trim it more like the competition guys do, and see how that might differ.
I will try the Bludawg recipe and some of the other suggestions. Thanks again!
For probing through the butcher paper, I cut a ~3"x3" flap in the butcher paper where I probe. When that I want to probe for "done-ness" I fold back the flap and probe away. If it's not done, I fold the flap back down and probe in the same spot later (angling in a slightly different direction so I don't probe in the old hole)...
Mmmm, a meat diet
Mmmm, a meat diet
For probing through the butcher paper, I cut a ~3"x3" flap in the butcher paper where I probe. When that I want to probe for "done-ness" I fold back the flap and probe away. If it's not done, I fold the flap back down and probe in the same spot later (angling in a slightly different direction so I don't probe in the old hole)...
Mmmm, a meat diet
That is a good idea! That would make it so much easier to feel the meat. Usually, when I wrap it, I end up with two layers of paper on top of the brisket.
It is surprising how tough it is to get the probe through two layers of butcher paper. Then I end up wondering if I have resistance from the paper or the meat. I can't see the small flap interfering with the cook since the paper allows it to breathe a little anyway. I will give it a try. Thanks for that Patrick. Sometimes the obvious is too simple to notice!!! :wink:
BTW, The diet that we have been doing for the past 13 months is the only diet that worked and I could maintain for any amount of time. It can be either a very low carb restriction (less than 20) with high-fat meat (true Keto), a straight carnivore diet, or a combination of the two (Ketovoiure). My wife and I were shocked to find how easy it became after the body became used to burning ingested fat, rather than carbohydrates. (sugar). But, it is very restrictive and since we have been doing it, out of all of our friends and family who could benefit, no one would try it due to how restrictive it is. But I am telling you, if you are someone who is sick of being fat and especially if you are unhealthy, try this! It works wonders and becomes easier as you go due to how satiated you become with the high-fat content of the meat. Look up Dr Ken Berry on YouTube if any of you want to learn more. It is a lifesaver! (I hope I have not broken any forum rules by posting this)
