UDS Charcoal Comparison Test Burn

[Teleking]

It produced an ash pile approximately 20% of the original material (by sight) the most ash of all tested brands.

Interesting as that is not consistent with your historical observations with K.

 

[EatRBBQ]

Interesting as that is not consistent with your historical observations with K.

When it comes to using any charcoal products in my UDS smokers I have no history as I just started using UDSs recently, so I'm not sure I understand the point of your post.

I posted an objective, controlled test and reported my results. YMMV

 

[KnucklHed BBQ]

Great thread! Thanks for the time & money spent!

I've used Stubbs for quite some time and like it, haven't really noticed any ammonia smells - I'm pretty sensitive to funky smelling briqs - but usually I'm using them in my CG and I typically burn with both vents wide open and regulate the temps with the amount of fuel I use... I have to feed the beast often, but it produces a great clean smelling smoke.

I recently picked up some Chef's Select briqs from Royal Oak (ordered from a local doitbest store) and tried them in my CG and UDS.

I really like the smell of them while lighting and burning - I guess I would compare it to the smell of lump with a small amount of chips added to it. Light clean smoke, not much white smoke at start up either. Small amount of sparking.

In the UDS I filled 2 chimneys with unlit and added them to the basket then added about 7 - 8 ashed over briqs to the top center (piled together). Took about an hour for the temp to get stable @ 225* and they burned in excess of 9 hours with nothing more than a slight air adjustment (about 1/8" more) around the 6hr mark and again at the 8hr mark.
Went to bed, checked it at about 7:30 am and there was no fire left but the drum was still at 100* I'd guess that there was about 12hrs of stable temp before it started dropping.

I didn't add any chips to the basket, it seems like I get nasty choked-smoldering-wood flavors when I add wood. But since the CS RO has such a great smell as it lights, I had a continual light blue during the observed 9 hours.

Still a bit stronger - slightly over smoked flavor than what I'm used to on my CG, but waaaaay better than previous burns when I added chips or chunks to the mix. It seems to me that this is a result of using the minion method, not the charcoal per se...

Next time I plan on trying it the way you have described, lighting all of the charcoal first and then choking it down to manage the temps.

I really would like a cleaner tasting smoke in the UDS for pork & chicken...

 

[dudz]

^^^^ so you dont use smoke wood ?

 

[Arlin_MacRae]

GREAT write-up. My first bag of Stubbs briquets stands unopened on the back porch, though! LOL

 

[MushCreek]

Great research and write-up! This is the kind of great stuff the Brethren do for the Q community. I'll have to try some lump in mine. I use lump for high heat direct grilling like steaks- never thought it would last in the UDS.

 

[KnucklHed BBQ]

^^^^ so you dont use smoke wood ?

No, not in the UDS using the minion method (minus the chips/chunks).

I do in my CG, usually apple & pecan.

In the UDS it just seems like in order to keep the temps down, you have to choke off the fire too much and I end up getting a very heavy - slightly bitter flavor from it. I think part is from the fire being choked and part is from the slower moving, more stagnant smoke. The wood isn't burning clean enough as well. I can make smoke with carpet, doesn't mean it tastes good! :lol:

I still don't get the smooth smoke flavor that I associate with good Q, but it's closer without the wood added. IMO, the smoke should be another ingredient in your food, not THE ingredient. If it's hitting you in the face, it's been over smoked.

The CS RO has the best resulting flavor I've found yet. That being said, I've only done 6 or so smokes on the UDS.

Am I alone on this?

I love how fuel efficient and consistent temps are on the UDS, just haven't found the flavor I like...

 

[dudz]

I will have to try a no wood smoke sometime with some lump....but to me BBQ needs wood flavor

 

[EatRBBQ]

Before I built or even considered cooking on the UDS I did a ton of reading and research.

IMHO the UDS is such a sealed, tight system for slow smoking/cooking foods that you need to be selective about how much wood you may or may not add for flavor. I've read a bunch of threads about folks getting new indoor electrics for small restaurants and the like and hitting a hard learning curve on how much wood to use, or to use some charcoal briquettes to add smoke rings. I'm thinking the UDS is on that same learning curve.

My first couple of cooks I only added 3 to 5 pieces of exceptionally dried hickory chunks blended in as I poured in my lit charcoal. I didn't notice the hickory flavor beyond the "pit" flavor the UDS brings to your meats. It was there, a very faint hint of hickory, but nothing like I'm used to.

As I've cooked more on the UDS I've increased how much smoke wood I mix in with the charcoal. My last cook with briquettes I added about 8 baseball sized chunks of hickory on a load with a chicken, a 5# pork shoulder, and one rack of baby backs. That seemed to produce more of the smoke flavor I'm used to (I don't add the meat until the UDS is done smoking white if it does).

I've toyed around with both chunks and chips for wood smoke in the UDS. Now that I've tried both with Lump charcoal? I'll stick with chips. Something about the way lump burns in the controlled system it burns before the wood chips when I pour them on top of the lump. If I load chunks for wood smoke with the lump, it seems to burn right along with the lump at the same rate.

Since I'm still on the learning curve with the UDS I've decided to go with applewood chips for now. IMHO apple produces a sweet enough smoke flavor it's less dangerous to over-smoke with if it happens.

The chicken and turkey legs from the RO Lump test I just did have a very well balanced combination of the UDS "pit" flavor and the applewood smoke. The wife said the smoke was a touch heavy, but it didn't stop her from eating the skin off that bird! :lol: I used about 2 cups or 2 heavy handfuls of applewood spread on top of the lump charcoal after I'd stablized temps to cooking range. I'd probably half that next time, that lump/chip combo seems to make them last a lot longer and extended the flavor smoke process longer than I'd expected.

 

[Teleking]

When it comes to using any charcoal products in my UDS smokers I have no history as I just started using UDSs recently, so I'm not sure I understand the point of your post.

I posted an objective, controlled test and reported my results. YMMV

Let me explain:

So on one account, you claim vast experience in BBQ cooking and that in your opinion K produced the least amount of ash compared to any lump you have used and even less ash as burning sticks in any of the cookers you historically used.

And now here you say that K produced the most ash of everything you tested in the UDS. Just to get this straight, are you insinuating that K burns different in a UDS and produces more ash just because you have never used a UDS before?

Really! How can a cooker produce more or less ash from the very same product? Please explain the science of how this might be possible.

Cheers

 

[Arlin_MacRae]

Let me explain:

So on one account, you claim vast experience in BBQ cooking and that in your opinion K produced the least amount of ash compared to any lump you have used and even less ash as burning sticks in any of the cookers you historically used.

And now here you say that K produced the most ash of everything you tested in the UDS. Just to get this straight, are you insinuating that K burns different in a UDS and produces more ash just because you have never used a UDS before?

Really! How can a cooker produce more or less ash from the very same product? Please explain the science of how this might be possible.

Cheers

Teleking, it appears you have completely ignored the wealth of data presented by the OP to call him out on one item - the amount of ash produced by one of the tested products.

Meanwhile, the rest of us seem to appreciate the time and effort he put into the experiments and the fact that he shared his results in a long post. As I stated earlier in the thread, *I* do. Do we always take these reports as gospel? Of course not. The term “YMMV” comes to mind and we all know this. As long as you’ve been on this forum, you should know this too.

You mention another account. To my knowledge this is the first time EatRBBQ has posted test results here. Is this some other forum you're referring to?? I assume he ran a similar experiment and got different results? Comparing this data to other data we can’t see is a little irrelevant, IMO.

You come across as being extremely sensitive about what might be stretched into a ‘down-check’ on the use of Kingsford - even though I didn't get that from the article at all. If you're a Kingsford rep, please try and be professional in dealing with others' opinions of competing products. If "approximately 20% of the original material" (remaining) is too much ash in your opinion, then maybe a call to Kingsford is warranted. And the fact that you picked THAT little bit out of an otherwise glowing reference to Kingsford is fairly narrow-minded, wouldn’t you say?

We're a happy family forum here. If you have differences with someone that stem from another forum, please leave them there.

Arlin

 

[Bigmista]

Great post and great thread. I always learn so much when I come here. You know I occasionally get an ammonia smell but it hasn't been limited to any one brand. I wonder if if is due to a residue in the smoker?

 

[EatRBBQ]

Great post and great thread. I always learn so much when I come here. You know I occasionally get an ammonia smell but it hasn't been limited to any one brand. I wonder if if is due to a residue in the smoker?

The ammonia smell I encountered in these tests was the first time I've ever come across it grilling or smoking on any smokers (off-set, reverse flow, cabinet, electric cabinet). The UDSs used in these tests were "new" built, I was using the charcoal tests as my seasoning burn.

The only factor I don't see that I might have included was that each UDS used for these comparisons was a "new" UDS, bare steel interior sprayed lightly with Olive Oil prior to the burn. I've seasoned quiet a few smokers with a light olive oil lube, then smoke burn, in the past and have never found an ammonia smell.

When we encountered the ammonia smell with the Frontier Brand, it was profound, it was extreme (image in my mind is the last time I took my son to the zoo and we visited the big cat areas). That UDS was flamed out with a weed burner and wiped clean, it's still sitting empty, I'm considering re-seasoning with RO Lump and re-checking for scent/smells. The Frontier left such a nasty funk in the UDS and burned so oddly (blue/white flames and odors) that I'm unwilling to retest it.

The Stubb's performed so well otherwise that I did retest it in one of the UDS that RO Lump was used in. During the later stages of that retest we noticed the ammonia smells again. Further research showed me who makes Stubb's (Cowboy Charcoal Company) and that ended any further testing or use for me.

With all the reviews and negative information out there about Cowboy Brand lump I won't go into my past experiences more than to say, they were bad enough Stubb's isn't an option for me considering Cowboy makes both.

 

[EatRBBQ]

Let me explain:

So on one account, you claim vast experience in BBQ cooking and that in your opinion K produced the least amount of ash compared to any lump you have used and even less ash as burning sticks in any of the cookers you historically used.

You say I claim "vast experience in BBQ"
Re-reading my posts here I have never made such a claim, I've posted my basic history and experience and related time frame information.
If you consider my history "vast experience" I guess that's a compliment? thanks?

I have never claimed to be an expert, I consider myself a Cook (Chefs go to school), and I almost always make it clear in these types of discussions - I'm here to share and learn, I express my experiences and opinions, and I welcome constructive criticism and input. I don't claim to be right or wrong, I'm just sharing, YMMV

As for opinions about K blue bag? I've posted no comments in these forums stating such. In the past I might have expressed an opinion in a discussion someplace else concerning a different application and use of products and other brands and using different equipment, perhaps you misunderstood or are confused.
Opinions change with education and experience, so again, I'm not understanding the nature and purpose of your posts.

And now here you say that K produced the most ash of everything you tested in the UDS. Just to get this straight, are you insinuating that K burns different in a UDS and produces more ash just because you have never used a UDS before?

As I stated in the lead in to my test:

I've read a lot of various charcoal tests and comparisons in the past, many of which seemed to focus on lighting some in a pile, watching it burn, measuring some temps and recording results. However I haven't seen many specifically designed to test the various charcoals in a controlled burn, sealed system smoker designed to cook low and slow.

IMHO there is a large difference in usage styles, aka Low and slow smoking versus grilling. Using charcoal to grill usually involves plenty of air-flow to the fire for hot fast cooking. Using charcoal for a low and slow cook usually involves controlling the air-flow, fire, and temps. IMHO those are two very different applications for the same product and I’d think there would be big variations in performance.

Specifically: No, I am not say "K burns different in a UDS and produces more ash just because you have never used a UDS before" those are your choice of words.

I am saying any brand might burn differently in different types of applications (ie: smoking versus grilling) and/or different types of equipment (ie: an un-modified Chargriller has tons of air leaks and is terribly inefficient compared to a sealed, efficient UDS).

Any backyard grilling or BBQ person should have enough experience with wind, rain, and temperatures to notice that all of those factors could and do affect how your choice of fuels burn. A backyard grilling or BBQ person with experience on a variety of equipment would also see that factors in equipment design, air-flow, and efficiency could and do affect how your choice of fuels burn.

In my new and recent experience with UDS smokers I developed the opinion that they are very efficient and controlled, enough so that I could hopefully eliminate or equalize those variety of factors that do affect fuel burns and results. I tried to keep this test burn as scientific as possible and I didn't bring any preconceived opinions or notions to the table, nor do I feel I expressed any concerning any of the brands I tested.

Really! How can a cooker produce more or less ash from the very same product? Please explain the science of how this might be possible.

As for "How can a cooker produce more or less ash from the very same product? Please explain the science of how this might be possible."

I didn't address how a cooker could produce different results from the same product nor was my test designed to document or track how much ash was produced from any given application, brand, or smoker equipment. Further, I didn't repeat this test. It was what it was, it is what it is, YMMV

Personally, I can see how wind, weather, temperatures, the design and efficiency of equipment, and other factors could produce varied results, although I didn't address that in my test/results/or posts.

I wanted to experiment with a variety of locally available fuel options in a reasonably controlled test while I had the ability to use such similar equipment in hopes of expanding my experience and knowledge. I was open minded and hoping to find a fuel option that will provide me multiple benefits in the future uses of my UDS smokers. I chose to share the experiences here again YMMV.

I feel I learned some, grew some, and have dialed into what works for me from the readily, locally available brands; as I mentioned I'm very likely to have RO Red-bag stocked for use in my UDS smokers.

I'm open minded enough to experiment and try new things, I come to these forums to share the experiences and hopefully learn from and through others, I don't come here to judge or be judged. If I thought I was the ultimate expert on BBQ I certainly wouldn't be sharing here for free, I'd be making you pay me.

 

[Mark]

Great post and great thread. I always learn so much when I come here. You know I occasionally get an ammonia smell but it hasn't been limited to any one brand. I wonder if if is due to a residue in the smoker?

I suspect burro urine.

 

[EatRBBQ]

We need an educated opinion!

So, I've seen other threads on these forums (and others) where occasionally an educated specialist chimes in with some scientific explanation.

IE: Discussion about building/welding a smoker and a Degreed Metallurgist adds some juicy intel average garage capable welders might not have thought of when welding two different types of metal together.

IE: Discussion about trees/woods for cooking and a Degreed Botanist chimes in and recommends against a non-fruit baring species.

You catching my drift?

I keep wondering if there is some chemical/biological process that could create that ammonia scent. Both the Frontier and Stubb's came from the same supplier. What if both products were exposed to something, someone else asked that earlier in the thread?
My point/question?
What if you take a new bag of lump and/or briquette and get them wet, let's just say rain water or melting snow? Would charred wood lump or compressed briquettes come alive with bacteria? Are charcoals a viable growth medium for anything? If so, when later burned could that produce an ammonia like smell?

Other posts in this thread have mentioned an occasional encounter with this ammonia scent.

I know I normally keep all my charcoal and wood products indoors or at least in the garage. All of the bags purchased for my test were stored indoors at purchase time, loaded in fair weather into a dry PT Cruiser, all stored together in that same location in my garage, and at no point exposed to any possible contaminant. Although who knows what happened to the bags I purchased before then.

I'm just trying to imagine other possible causes. Perhaps we're getting that ammonia smell from some biological process that occurs when we buy a bag of charcoal that has been exposed to moisture and then dried out during storage?

 

[Crüe-B-Cüe]

Sometimes you can just get a bad bag of charcoal. About a year ago, I purchased 2 bags of wicked good lump. The first bag, when burned in my egg, looked like a white fuzz had grown on everything and smelled funny. The next bag from the same pallet was fine. I'm not sure what could cause the ammonia smell. I have probably burned through at least 20 bags of Stubbs and never had a problem. Hopefully that will continue because I really like it for the UDS.

 

[1FUNVET]

I use Stubb's and have not noticed any ammonia smell. But this weekend i'll give it the wife test.Her nose is so sensitive she can tell i pulled a " one cheek sneak" setting in my chair at 25 feet. And she better not even get a hint of odor coming from the litter boxes-2 bedrooms away. :biggrin: :biggrin:

 

[leanza]

Bump and my vote as a 5 star thread. :mrgreen:

 

[12TH AV SMOKERS]

Hmmmmm....keep drinkin the Kool-aid folks. Where's the barf smiley when you need it?