The Great Salt Taste Test

Have you checked the link in his signature?

He's in the salt business.

I'd pretty much take his word for it that he knows what his marketplace is.


Actually, that means he has a financial interest in convincing us that there really are big differences in the types of salt. Which makes it all the more important to verify the information.

I don't necessarily doubt SirPorkALot's honesty, but as a rule I don't believe anyone's marketing claims until I've seen verification.
 
Actually, that means he has a financial interest in convincing us that there really are big differences in the types of salt. Which makes it all the more important to verify the information.

I don't necessarily doubt SirPorkALot's honesty, but as a rule I don't believe anyone's marketing claims until I've seen verification.

OMG. A financial interest in convincing us there are taste difference? Marketing claims?

<shaking my head>
 
Totally agree and understand this reference. Audio Research vs Mark Levinson vs BAT vs. Cary, et. al. or differences among various cables. Golden Ears claim to hear while others could not.

Sea salts, or other salts containing more than only NaCL can have subtle taste differences. Anyone prefer K+ salts??

To me the differences are admittedly subtle and I may only notice them when they are used after cooking as a 'finishing' salt. Even then, probably on food which is not heavily seasoned with other spices which can easily overwhelm subtle differences in minerals beyond sodium chloride.

BTW, I am an Audio Research tube guy!

AR is good stuff! I went through DOZENS of cables, speakers, amps, pre amp, integrated amps, cd players, DA converters, etc. etc. etc.

At one point I have enough tied up in equipment to buy a luxury SUV.

When did I reach the pinnacle of my system?

"Downgraded" to a pair of B&W 600 series speakers (sat's with 6.5" woofers), a REL sub with a 6 bb crossover set at 34 Hz, Meridian 508.24 CD player, and an EAR integrated 834 tube amp. THAT, was when I reached complete audio satisfaction for the first time in my audio journey. And it was at a fraction of the cost of my previous system (thought the EAR was still very expensive as I switched out to NOS tubes).
 
Can you link to any definitive information on this? I saw a web page on this subject that claimed anything sold as regular salt in the US is required to be something like 98% NaCl (don't remember the exact number, but it was in the high 90s). Not saying that web page is right and you're wrong, I just would like to see some reliable source information on the subject.


I can...
How deep you want to go?


I have attached a comparison between Trapani Sea Salt (unrefined Sicilian sea salt we use) and Himalayan (very similar chemically)


Here is a table showing sodium content of various salt types


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Source: https://www.businessinsider.com/sea-salt-mining-iodine-table-salt-processed-minerals-2015-8
 
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That's great, SirPorkALot. Thanks much for digging up the information.

If I'm reading the comparison correctly, it looks like the one on the left is 98% NACl and the one on the right is 99.5% NaCl. The numbers you quoted earlier were just the Na content, which is what was throwing me off. Most of the rest is the Cl.

The top table doesn't show the Cl, but it looks like with the possible exception of the Celtic salt, they are probably all above 95% NaCl.
 
Try some Sel Gris on a meat product and you will be convinced and understand.
I also have three or four other "sea salts" for cooking and finishing depending on the dish I'm cooking and serving.


Having tried MANY salts, there is only one salt I ever use on my steaks. I use it prior to cooking them to season, and then put a light layer on a finished steak (if needed, usually not).

All the people I cook with can totally tell if I use it or not, and actually request it by name - Maldon. It's the ONLY salt I will ever use on steaks.


I would agree that if salt alone was applied as an overnight dry brine, or in a rub left overnight in the refrigerator before for a long cook, the average person would probably not be able to tell the difference. Because salt is hygroscopic in nature, it will equalize itself throughout the meat over time by means of osmosis until it reaches a point of equilibrium. Salt is also a balanced ionic compound, so it will can bond itself to virtually anything that has positive or negative ions.


But for something not left to sit before a long cook, I would agree with MountainMan, TXNewbie, food4thot, and SirPorkalot. Salting during or after a short cook or when grilling with specialty salts will undoubtedly produce different taste perceptions. Even if the perceived flavor is "saltier" as Mrs. Monkey Uncle replied to his inquiry.


We all know that commercially refined salts come in 5 different sizes, whether they be a refined table salt or a refined sea salt. These are all highly processed salts and will basically produce similar results and similar flavors. Yes, sea water is sometimes filtered and commercially evaporated before being ground to one of the five standard sizes. But this is no longer a natural product.

We all can agree that salt is a flavor enhancer, but I think the discussion MountainMan, TXNewbie, food4thot, and SirPorkalot are referring to in this thread and the other thread, are the naturally produced salts.

They can correct me if I am wrong, but I think they are referring to naturally formed sea salts.

MountainMan refers to Sel Gris (French Grey Sea Salt) which is grey due to the mineral content. Sel Gris has a damp like feel to it, but because it is a natural forming sea salt it has formed mineral rich crystals of many varied sizes, thus your taste bud / taste receptors perceive the salt differently changing the way our taste buds allow us to taste other flavors. food4thot referred to Celtic Sea Salt which is a similar product to Sel Gris from the United Kingdom.

TXNewbie refers to Maldon Sea Salt Flakes, parchment-like flakes of varied sizes provide a snap of texture and a brief explosion of pungency to steak, fresh vegetables, green salads, and wherever a more vibrant, salty presence is desired.

Unlike Sel Gris or Celtic Sea Salt formations, that are soft and moist; flake salts have dry, thin and brittle flakes that create bold, sparks of taste when eaten, thus bringing forth more of the natural flavors of the food item.

Refined table salt and refined sea salt are a more recent product of the industrial age when compared to the natural forming sea salts.

Sel Gris - is formed as the sea water flows into the Marshes in Guérande France during high tides. It was first harvested in 945 AD, and is still hand-harvested today by salt workers, to insure only the best possible quality of salt. This salt is favored by the top chefs in France and all around the world.

Fleur de Sel
- A salt that forms as a thin, delicate crust on the surface of seawater as it evaporates. Fleur de sel has been collected since ancient times (mentioned by Pliny the Elder in the year 77 AD). Historically, the workers who harvested fleur de sel were women, because it was believed that these salt crystals were so delicate, they needed to be collected by "the more delicate sex." Because it is collected from the top of the salt marsh (like cream from milk), fleur de sel has been called "the cream of the salt pans." The name comes from the flower-like formation of crystals in the floating salt crust. This salt is also highly favored by the top chefs all around the world. Fleur de Sel has incredibly varied crystals that give only the most delicate, scintillating saltiness.

Maldon Salt Flakes - from Maldon Lake in Essex, England, a hard salt that resembles snowflakes. Flake salt was first manufactured in Maldon by accident nearly 2,000 years ago, when the slaves of Casius Petrox overheated his bathwater. His slaves had inadvertently discovered a method of producing salt from sea water. Casius Petrox left the Roman Legion to produce salt because it was more economically lucrative than conquering and pillaging. Still produced and hand-harvested today, to ensure the old world traditional salt with the distinctive flaky texture, and taste that lends certain piquancy to virtually any dish.

Himalayan Sheppa Pink Salt - From the Punjab region of Pakistan, about 180 mi from the Himalayas. (It is falsely marketed as being from the Himalayas) Pink Salt was discovered around 326 BC when Alexander the Great stopped to rest and noticed the horses licking the reddish-pink (salt) rocks.[FONT=&quot]
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[FONT=&quot]If salt is just simply salt, how have these products remained a desirable commodity foe thousands of years in the free market when cheaper processed salts are readily available almost everywhere? Why do these remain a staple of prized chefs around the world?
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[FONT=&quot]Because there is a difference.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]To say salt is just salt; is like saying cinnamon is just cinnamon. There are 4 different varieties of cinnamon, each having a distinct flavor profile from mild, slightly sweet, and to bitter. Yet the average consumer has no idea that these other varieties even exist, let alone which variety they are purchasing at the grocery store. Sadly, it seems that the majority of the products in the market are based on the cheapest prices, so many will never understand or experience different products in their life.
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[FONT=&quot]It's like comparing a MacDonald's hamburger to your own freshly ground patty. Yes, many are happy to accept MacDonald's burgers and say there is no difference - beef is beef; but some will undoubtedly desire the higher quality and savor the flavor.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]It's not about the price because a higher price doesn't always mean a better product because there are imitations in the market, but an educated consumer knows the difference.
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[FONT=&quot]It all come down to your personal preference and what you are willing to accept and what you want in the end product. But then again, you have never used these salt products.
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That's great, SirPorkALot. Thanks much for digging up the information.

If I'm reading the comparison correctly, it looks like the one on the left is 98% NACl and the one on the right is 99.5% NaCl. The numbers you quoted earlier were just the Na content, which is what was throwing me off. Most of the rest is the Cl.

The top table doesn't show the Cl, but it looks like with the possible exception of the Celtic salt, they are probably all above 95% NaCl.



The CL (Cloride) don’t matter in food related matters (it’s the active ingredient in melting ice though), it’s the Sodium that’s important to our bodies.

All Salt is some combination of Sodium & Cloride. The cloride is fairly consistent at ~60%, it’s the sodium your body reacts to.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_chloride
 
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The CL (Calcium) don’t matter in food related matters (it’s the active ingredient in melting ice though), it’s the Sodium that’s important to our bodies.

All Salt is some combination of Sodium & Calcium. The calcium is fairly consistent at ~60%, it’s the sodium your body reacts to.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_chloride

I believe you mean chloride, not calcium. Right?
 
I would agree that if salt alone was applied as an overnight dry brine, or in a rub left overnight in the refrigerator before for a long cook, the average person would probably not be able to tell the difference. Because salt is hygroscopic in nature, it will equalize itself throughout the meat over time by means of osmosis until it reaches a point of equilibrium. Salt is also a balanced ionic compound, so it will can bond itself to virtually anything that has positive or negative ions.

Yes, and that's the way most salt is used in BBQ - it gets dissolved into a large piece of meat.

I don't doubt that the many varieties of specialty salts can be experienced differently when used in a finishing application. Although I'm a bit skeptical of that delicate, scintillating saltiness.:biggrin1:


If salt is just simply salt, how have these products remained a desirable commodity in the free market when cheaper processed salts are readily available almost everywhere? Why do these remain a staple of prized chefs around the world?

Presumably the aforementioned finishing applications are a big part of it, but don't underestimate the extent of human gullibility (see: astrology, homeopathy, cults, salt lamps, fortune tellers, etc., etc.).
 
Presumably the aforementioned finishing applications are a big part of it, but don't underestimate the extent of human gullibility (see: astrology, homeopathy, cults, salt lamps, fortune tellers, etc., etc.).

Don't underestimate the ability to people to actually taste a difference and have preferences based on actual real differences and not just being gullible.
 
It's funny you posted this just a few days after my wife turned me on to a better salt, one I'd never heard of: Celtic Salt. I haven't used it in Q yet (doing some steaks on Sunday and will try) but side-by-side vs. table, kosher, AND Himalayan it has a "deeper" flavor and is now my go-to salt for table use. I don't salt food a lot, but believe it to be nutritionally essential for humans, especially for minerals and trace minerals. My wife, who is very healthy nutrition oriented, got turned onto celtic salt because it has even more minerals and trace minerals than Himalayan salt. I like it because it tastes better!:biggrin1:
To me, there is a huge taste difference between salts. Celtic (pronounced: keltic) is my favorite.

Celtic salt is fairly course. Except for a couple things on the stove (chili, soups, etc) I grind it by eye for everything else.

Monkey Uncle kindly provided a link in his original post here to the thread that got the salt discussion started.
 
Yes, and that's the way most salt is used in BBQ - it gets dissolved into a large piece of meat.

I don't doubt that the many varieties of specialty salts can be experienced differently when used in a finishing application. Although I'm a bit skeptical of that delicate, scintillating saltiness.:biggrin1:

Presumably the aforementioned finishing applications are a big part of it, but don't underestimate the extent of human gullibility (see: astrology, homeopathy, cults, salt lamps, fortune tellers, etc., etc.).


It sounds like more of an "armchair quarterback" or "backseat driver" statement; always having something to say to discredit the other's use and experience, without actually using the specifics yourself. Even your wife said the chicken was more tender and tasted better. Yet, you even discredit that in an effort to shore up your own points by saying it was salty. Scientists say humans can detect five basic tastes (sweet, sour, bitter, salty and umami). Salty is a basic flavor.
 
In my opinion, gourmet salts have their place in some foods, but as far as flavor in a rub, not taking texture into consideration, salt is salt.

Now if we are talking about something fresh like cucumber slices with some coarse Himalayan sea salt spinkled on top with a dollop of tuna salad, then there is a huge difference between that and using regular table salt. Flavor, and texture wise.
 
Don't underestimate the ability to people to actually taste a difference and have preferences based on actual real differences and not just being gullible.

Feel free to post your own test results, or link to someone else's. I'm always open to changing my opinion when the facts dictate.
 
It sounds like more of an "armchair quarterback" or "backseat driver" statement; always having something to say to discredit the other's use and experience, without actually using the specifics yourself. Even your wife said the chicken was more tender and tasted better. Yet, you even discredit that in an effort to shore up your own points by saying it was salty. Scientists say humans can detect five basic tastes (sweet, sour, bitter, salty and umami). Salty is a basic flavor.

As I said before, it was my wife who defined "better" as "more salty." And I freely admitted in my OP that my test was likely inconclusive due to the very small sample size, use of cheap sea salt, and inclusion of the test designer as one of the tasters. I invited others to post their own results, but so far have mostly gotten anecdotal assertions, which don't really constitute evidence.

As I said in response to TXNewbie, feel free to post your own test results, or link to someone else's. I have no problem changing my opinion should the facts dictate. I've done a little bit of searching and am surprised at the paucity of test results available on line.

I totally agree that salty is a basic flavor, but I don't see how that bolsters the argument that different salts taste different.
 
The CL (Cloride) don’t matter in food related matters (it’s the active ingredient in melting ice though), it’s the Sodium that’s important to our bodies.

All Salt is some combination of Sodium & Cloride. The cloride is fairly consistent at ~60%, it’s the sodium your body reacts to.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_chloride

Agreed. But the point is that the salts compared are overwhelmingly composed of the same compound, and they differ mostly in the composition of the trace components. Having studied toxicology way back when, I'm well aware of the fact that a very small amount of something can be very important, it just depends on what the substance is. The claims of superiority are mostly based on those trace compounds, but I haven't seen any real information on whether the amounts of the trace compounds are enough to matter.
 
Feel free to post your own test results, or link to someone else's. I'm always open to changing my opinion when the facts dictate.

No need to try and change your opinion (you like being in that position anyway). The world will still go on regardless of what you think or don't think. No test is needed to prove to you something is true or not true because you decide not to believe something so simple doesn't affect anyone else's life. Tests aren't needed to try and prove anything to you as you will always find the negative (such as the gullible comment) and never be satisfied.

The fact you felt a guy on a bbq forum has a "financial interest" just because he works in the "industry" and is using this as "marketing" to conspire with an evil corporate plan to convince all us gullible people about the different tastes of salt says it all. In psych classes we studied people like that. It's sort of like a persecution complex.
 
I also wanted to add I used to encounter people with that same attitude in the audio industry all the time. In fact my dad is one of them - "if I can't hear the difference than there can't be and I'm going to keep telling you to prove it to me and regardless of what you prove I will never be satisfied because I enjoy being negative more than accepting there are difference between people".

I learned a long time ago people like that enjoyed actually being difficult more than anything else. There is no talking to people (and my dad) like that. They simply can't - wait, choose not to is better worded - accept the most basic, logical and fundamental facts: different people hear differently, taste differently, etc. etc. And it's ok if people are different.

Anyone that needs "tests" to prove that to them....well.....
 
Feel free to post your own test results, or link to someone else's. I'm always open to changing my opinion when the facts dictate.

As I said before, it was my wife who defined "better" as "more salty." And I freely admitted in my OP that my test was likely inconclusive due to the very small sample size, use of cheap sea salt, and inclusion of the test designer as one of the tasters. I invited others to post their own results, but so far have mostly gotten anecdotal assertions, which don't really constitute evidence.

As I said in response to TXNewbie, feel free to post your own test results, or link to someone else's. I have no problem changing my opinion should the facts dictate. I've done a little bit of searching and am surprised at the paucity of test results available on line.

I totally agree that salty is a basic flavor, but I don't see how that bolsters the argument that different salts taste different.

if salt is a basic flavor than being saltier would mean it has more flavor. if something has more flavor than it could be better........

there was a fella posting alot a few weeks ago who was a tester. same thing one inconclusive "experiment" and the "data" was being treated like it was published in scientific journals. don't take this the wrong way but you burned 2 pieces of chicken with 2 testers and you discredited one opinion because it didn't fit your hypothesis.

most of us here are just trying to cook dinner. we enjoy a fun experiment or head to head comparison but the results are for entertainment purposes only. it doesn't take a controlled procedure for me to say I like more salt flavor or that i prefer a specific type of salt.

that's just my opinion, take it with a grain of salt
 
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