Mustard Sauce for Pork?

[tduffy]

On the topic of having a personal dislike of certain flavors -- if you can't put your personal feelings aside, you shouldn't be judging. Disliking mustard is hugely different from someone turning in an entry with too much spice. Too much spice, that either overwhelms your palate or dominates the flavor of the meat, is a bad thing. Something as judges we specifically talk about as being a bad thing. Mustard, however, is a flavor profile choice, and if it is used with restraint and in balance, then it should be judged just like any other spice a cook uses.

Last I checked judging flavor was subjective and In my opinion mustard is just as overwhelming as spice is.

 

[masque13]

If your personal bias is to the extent that you'd refuse to sample an entry or give it the lowest possible score automatically, you probably shouldn't be a judge. It doesn't make you a horrible person. It does suggest that you aren't suited to judge a contest where you might be asked to sample cottage cheese.

my point is that it's ridiculous to say that someone including a product that is offensive to a judge's tastes buds should be expected to be judged the same way as a product that they actually liked the way it tasted. i think that makes sense dont you? it's pretty basic human nature, regardless of what they are "supposed" to do.

and yes, I agree I am not suitable to judge a cottage cheese contest.

 

[Southern Boy]

I would love to see more variety in the sauces. Since I grew up in SC I'm used to mustard based BBQ. Whether it's my "favorite" or not isn't relevant to my judging scores however. I judge every entry on its merits, like the oath says, objectively and subjectively. I love it all, every freaking style of BBQ found in the US. Bring it on and make it good.

To the judge who can't stand anything with the taste of mustard, I think you should not be a bbq judge with a prejudice like that. It's not fair to the contestants. You don't sign up to be a judge if you're only capable of fairly evaluating a certain category of flavors.

 

[Jorge]

my point is that it's ridiculous to say that someone including a product that is offensive to a judge's tastes buds should be expected to be judged the same way as a product that they actually liked the way it tasted. i think that makes sense dont you? it's pretty basic human nature, regardless of what they are "supposed" to do.

and yes, I agree I am not suitable to judge a cottage cheese contest.

I think that if you are unable or unwilling to set aside your personal bias you are unsuited to judge.

If I don't like garlic, and I sample something with garlic in it rather than writing it off as the worst thing in the history of ever I can look at it objectively. How does the other seasoning work together? Do those other seasonings enhance that taste, or do they overpower the flavor of the meat?

If you walk into that judging area, knowing that you are going to score an entry lower if you taste an ingredient you personally dislike it's no different than the judge that says the lack of burnt ends in a brisket box is going to cost a team points.

 

[tduffy]

I think that if you are unable or unwilling to set aside your personal bias you are unsuited to judge.

If I don't like garlic, and I sample something with garlic in it rather than writing it off as the worst thing in the history of ever I can look at it objectively. How does the other seasoning work together? Do those other seasonings enhance that taste, or do they overpower the flavor of the meat?

If you walk into that judging area, knowing that you are going to score an entry lower if you taste an ingredient you personally dislike it's no different than the judge that says the lack of burnt ends in a brisket box is going to cost a team points.

so everything on taste is a 9 because offensive tasting bbq should be judged on it's own offensive merit?

 

[tduffy]

how many regions in the US is mustard based BBQ sauce a staple?

 

[tduffy]

Actually as a competitor, I encourage the rest of you to turn in pork with mustard sauce on it. It will just make the day easier for those of us who don't in the pork category.

 

[Jorge]

so everything on taste is a 9 because offensive tasting bbq should be judged on it's own offensive merit?

I didn't say that. But since you've shared your dislike for mustard... I know a cook that used mustard in one of his recipes. He didn't cook regionally. He cooked nationally, and did very, very well. He did well in all regions. He did very well at the major invitationals which he cooked almost annually. He did well in KCBS ToY. But you'd feel justified in dinging his entry, which was judged to consistently be 8-9 across the country, because you just don't like mustard?

How is that remotely fair? Without you ever tasting the entry, it has lost points. It's not different than a judge decided to penalize a team that doesn't include burnt ends or sliced money muscle.

 

[PatAttack]

All of my comp sauces start off as a mustard based sauce.

And this guy has won a contest or ten.:thumb:

 

[tduffy]

I didn't say that. But since you've shared your dislike for mustard... I know a cook that used mustard in one of his recipes. He didn't cook regionally. He cooked nationally, and did very, very well. He did well in all regions. He did very well at the major invitationals which he cooked almost annually. He did well in KCBS ToY. But you'd feel justified in dinging his entry, which was judged to consistently be 8-9 across the country, because you just don't like mustard?

How is that remotely fair? Without you ever tasting the entry, it has lost points. It's not different than a judge decided to penalize a team that doesn't include burnt ends or sliced money muscle.

he obviously didn't use very much of it nor was it a true "mustard sauce" then.
How is it any different than getting dinged for spice? If there is any flavor that stands out overpowering it has a possibility of hurting your score and justifiably so.

 

[Jorge]

he obviously didn't use very much of it nor was it a true "mustard sauce" then.
How is it any different than getting dinged for spice? If there is any flavor that stands out overpowering it has a possibility of hurting your score and justifiably so.

I think we are discussing two different issues. I've got no problem with a judge not falling in love with a mustard sauce. I see a problem with a judge prior to judging stating that they find mustard offensive and that they'd score accordingly.

Taking your example of "spice", I understand you to mean pepper, or heat. If a judge gets an entry that they feel is unbalanced I don't see a problem with them taking points. If the entry sets them on fire, and the table is killed for the rest of that category or into the next I don't have a problem with the hammer being dropped when it's time for a judge to record a score.

Substitute sweet, savory, any other word you want. When a judge singles something out and proclaims that winning BBQ must or must not contain whatever that is and they'll score accordingly I think it's a problem. If the entry isn't judged, as presented we start getting into Super Judge territory.

We'll probably just have to agree to disagree.

 

[thesemicullen]

^^^ Exactly this.

 

[tduffy]

I find it funny that mustard and other spices are not viewed as the same. Quite hypocritical if you ask me

 

[thesemicullen]

Actually, if you pay attention to what we've been saying, mustard is just like any other spice. If it's off balance, then of course it's going to detract from the overall score. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't taste any mustard if it's used. It just means that like any other spice or flavor, it shouldn't dominate or overwhelm.

If you count down just because mustard is present, that's what I have a problem with. Just like if you count down just because you taste cumin. Or garlic. Or any other spice, herb, sweetener, etc.

 

[jread23]

I find it funny that mustard and other spices are not viewed as the same. Quite hypocritical if you ask me

Who is saying that? You summed it up when you said the following

If there is any flavor that stands out overpowering it has a possibility of hurting your score and justifiably so.

If it's overpowering and therefore offensive then that's legitimate, but as others have said, if it's mere presence is offensive to someone, and there's a chance it will be used in a competition, then that person who finds it offensive shouldn't be a judge

 

[masque13]

i think what is happening here is that extremes are being used and considered.

as for me, what I personally believe is that the majority of folks believe that mustard based sauces on the KCBS circuit will not do as well as non mustard based sauces. Therefore, because of that probability, most folks would advise against the use of using a product that is believed to be preferred less by the majority. it's pretty simple.

the only thing I find strange within this discussion is the belief that some have who think a judge who prefers non mustard based sauces better than mustard based sauces will somehow find a way to judge it fairly and without bias and score it above another kind of sauce that the actually PREFER better. isn't that the basis of judging, to choose the one you like the best in a food contest? Isn't the majority of the judging based on mostly subjective variables?

and if I believe what I am saying is 51% more likely to be true than not, then I am going to go with that belief in choosing what kind of sauce to present to the judges. it doesnt have to be calculated on black and white extremes, there are always exceptions.....but those exceptions are much less common.

 

[tduffy]

Actually, if you pay attention to what we've been saying, mustard is just like any other spice. If it's off balance, then of course it's going to detract from the overall score. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't taste any mustard if it's used. It just means that like any other spice or flavor, it shouldn't dominate or overwhelm.

If you count down just because mustard is present, that's what I have a problem with. Just like if you count down just because you taste cumin. Or garlic. Or any other spice, herb, sweetener, etc.

And the OP asked about a mustard based sauce, not sauce with a little mustard in it.

 

[thesemicullen]

Do tomato-based sauces taste like tomato, or do ketchup-based sauces taste like ketchup? I think there's plenty of room for interpretation. But even if you taste mustard, again, that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's bad when it overpowers everything else or is out of balance with the other flavors present.

 

[bbq.tom]

how many regions in the US is mustard based BBQ sauce a staple?

North-Central SOUTH Carolina is the only region that I know of where mustard based BBQ sauce is a staple - NOT at competitions, but at local Q-joints.

 

[rookiedad]

KCBS stands for Kansas City Barbeque Society, so in a KCBS competition i think what is expected is a Kansas City style bbq sauce. i would like to see other sauces and styles become more acceptable at bbq competitions but now Kansas is the prevailing style. i love mustard sauce! to me it's the best style to complement Carolina style whole hog or pork shoulders which is my favorite kind of bbq, but i will not use that in a Kansas City bbq competition.