LVQuefest allentown pa non payment

That really blows for everyone who didn't get paid. This was my first KCBS comp and although I had fun and met some great folks it was a very poorly run event.

The chefs choice was a disgrace, all those ribs just sitting there all day, not to mention the quality of the meat. I'm not sure how the health department didn't have a problem with that. They didn't have a problem taking my $30 fee and busting my stones over a hand washing station.

The KCBS reps were great though, I felt bad for them having to answer questions that were supposed to be answered by the organizer who was pretty much MIA.

I would love to go back because it's so close to me, maybe with a new organizer and an appropriate amount of staff around to help out. They didn't even have clam shells to hand out until last minute. Kind of an important thing to have at a competition.

They paid chefs choice in cash, which I actually feel bad about now. Being out 3 grand, that's farking BS right there.
 
Slamdunkpro said:
They did until a couple of years ago when a contest in/near St.Louis defaulted. KCBS's solution was to no longer require a guarantee.
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Actually, if I recall correctly, a promoter in Arkansas, pitched a bitch about the requirement of a guarantee because he couldn't (wouldn't) be able to do it prior to the contest as his sponsors didn't (wouldn't) deposit the money and the contestant's money may or may not be paid in time or he would have to keep the money and apply it to a future contest if he couldn't come up with the funds, the requirement was changed by KCBS to a gentleman's agreement. Go back 3 or 4 years and read the BOD minutes.
 
Smoke'n Ice said:
Actually, if I recall correctly, a promoter in Arkansas, pitched a bitch about the requirement of a guarantee because he couldn't (wouldn't) be able to do it prior to the contest as his sponsors didn't (wouldn't) deposit the money and the contestant's money may or may not be paid in time or he would have to keep the money and apply it to a future contest if he couldn't come up with the funds, the requirement was changed by KCBS to a gentleman's agreement. Go back 3 or 4 years and read the BOD minutes.
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The one I remember was the guy The Slabs (I think) got on tape being asked about where the prize money was. That one led to the board saying (to the effect) "well, there really is no guarantee"
 
I did a quick search on the forum and found that Slam was right, search letter and guarantee and you'll find the thread in 2012.

The question that I would ask of KCBS is did they get their sanctioning fees and reps expenses at the cost of prize money?
 
Based on my experience this past year, KCBS doesn't call it a guarantee rather in the organizer manual it states that if the advertised prize money amounts are changed within the last 30 days before the contest then the organizer must notify each team of the change and offer a refund of their entry fee. I totally understand coming up short simply because there is an expectation of large purses but there is a decrease in participating teams at some events. Each organizer should always make sure they have sponsor money put away long before the event date.

Just my two cents worth...
 
I spoke with someone at KCBS and she said they didn't get paid either. I thought they required sanctioning fees up front.
 
Pig Headed said:
I spoke with someone at KCBS and she said they didn't get paid either. I thought they required sanctioning fees up front.
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Interesting.. EVERY year, the reps hand me the bill at scoring time. I have to give them the check when they start compiling the scores.

im sorrry, but even though i had no dog in this fight, its infuriating. :mad2: I go thru great pains to control budget and make sure everything is accounted for, and to think that any organizer would be so flippant that he will just blow everything off without regard that it can reflect on the overall integrity of the 'sport' itself. Like DS commented, he was considering competing and things like his drive him away. Contests have already taken a hit on attendance this year and things like this doesnt help to improve anything.

Im up for KCBS requiring the prize money be in escrow 3 days before the event, otherwise they dont send the reps.
 
BBQchef33 said:
IMHO, this is bullchit... Prize money is #1 priority and thats what entry fees are for.
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You make it sound like I'm defending him, I was just speculating about what probably happens. I organized two KCBS contests that barely broke even and the teams all were paid the day of the event. In cash. It boggles my mind that someone would collect $10K from the teams and pull this kind of nonsense.

Lehigh County small claims court handles cases up to $12,000.

If he doesn't pay, when he got us to put checks in the mail and send them in, it becomes the federal offense of mail fraud. Wonder if he knows where Fort Dix is. http://www.bop.gov/locations/institutions/ftd/
 
no way... did NOT think you're defending him... i meant if HE was counting on door $$ for the prize pool.. THATS bullchit... prize pool is separate and apart form all else.

sorry..was reacting to overall concept.. nothing in particular.. U know i love you. :)
 
Weirdest part was him asking us all to hold a fake check for the pictures on stage. Maybe he thought it would be his proof that he paid us :tongue:
 
Thanks Phil :) Wish I really knew what to do here, but I can promise that I'm not going to just "let it go" as he probably expects most of us to do. I urge everyone he owes to stay on him and not let him get away with this.

And like Sled says, I will be sticking to existing contests, or at least those with known organizers. And to think we passed on going to AC to attend this thing.
 
I have not competed on the kcbs circuit yet but have done one backyard contest. I plan to go back to the whiting weber contest but am a little weary to compete kcbs and I am considering the one in Limia ohio in May. I have read this a few times and while I know the odds are slim that I can win it makes me consider not bothering as kcbs sanctioning seems to mean nothing. Yes I get they follow their judging rules but it makes kcbs look bad when they have dead beat organizers. I don't know if I will compete in kcbs. I think a new sanctioning body is in order. If they don't do anything to protect teams why are you paying to be a member? I dropped my membership in kcbs because lack of contests in my area and it seems like the bull sheet is a joke and non payment from organizers is running rampant is a very common thread here. Just saying if they really do nothing to protect the teams and people they represent they have outlived their usefulness and should be replaced. Just my 2 cents. What about the brethren sanctioning contests? I mean this is a huge well known and respected group. It would make sense for this group as a lot of big teams and big name people are part of this group. Excuse me if I overstep my bounds suggesting it but if this group was willing to sanction events I would be more willing to enter contests. Kcbs seems to be out for themselves and not the people that they represent. Oh and as a side note file a a suit against kcbs for the money it will need to be a group suit of multiple parties that have been stiffed. It must be 10,000 in damages or it is not worth it. If you file against kcbs you are more likely to get results and it may result in better protection for teams in the future. It doesn't matter if they have clauses that say you can't go after them and you may lose but it will cost them and they will have to pay for lawyer fees so they will want to settle or do something it will take until at least summary judgement to get tossed out and trust me they will want this to go away as there a lot of steps before summary judgement. It will keep happening until you stand up and say no. It will make them think twice who they are willing to sanction.
 
I agree with holding kcbs liable. I only knew about this contest through the kcbs site and they posted the $10k prize pool.
 
I suspect if you speak with a lawyer that specializes in this kind of dispute you would be advised to take formal legal action against the organizer AND KCBS.
 
As member of KCBS I would expect KCBS to actively and publicly lead the charge to correct this situation.

If this is not one of KCBS primary responsibilities then why exactly am I a member? It's not like I need to be member to cook a KCBS contest.

WE need more cooks on the BOD. Elect Mick Richter (Chix, Swine & Bovine from MD...soon to be FL) and David Qualls (The American Dream BBQ Team from OK).
 
BasicPatrick said:
I suspect if you speak with a lawyer that specializes in this kind of dispute you would be advised to take formal legal action against the organizer AND KCBS.
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That is what needs to happen. IMO kcbs should have already sued this guy to start with.
 
Rusty Kettle said:
I have not competed on the kcbs circuit yet but have done one backyard contest. I plan to go back to the whiting weber contest but am a little weary to compete kcbs and I am considering the one in Limia ohio in May. I have read this a few times and while I know the odds are slim that I can win it makes me consider not bothering as kcbs sanctioning seems to mean nothing. Yes I get they follow their judging rules but it makes kcbs look bad when they have dead beat organizers. I don't know if I will compete in kcbs. I think a new sanctioning body is in order. If they don't do anything to protect teams why are you paying to be a member? I dropped my membership in kcbs because lack of contests in my area and it seems like the bull sheet is a joke and non payment from organizers is running rampant is a very common thread here. Just saying if they really do nothing to protect the teams and people they represent they have outlived their usefulness and should be replaced. Just my 2 cents. What about the brethren sanctioning contests? I mean this is a huge well known and respected group. It would make sense for this group as a lot of big teams and big name people are part of this group. Excuse me if I overstep my bounds suggesting it but if this group was willing to sanction events I would be more willing to enter contests. Kcbs seems to be out for themselves and not the people that they represent. Oh and as a side note file a a suit against kcbs for the money it will need to be a group suit of multiple parties that have been stiffed. It must be 10,000 in damages or it is not worth it. If you file against kcbs you are more likely to get results and it may result in better protection for teams in the future. It doesn't matter if they have clauses that say you can't go after them and you may lose but it will cost them and they will have to pay for lawyer fees so they will want to settle or do something it will take until at least summary judgement to get tossed out and trust me they will want this to go away as there a lot of steps before summary judgement. It will keep happening until you stand up and say no. It will make them think twice who they are willing to sanction.
Click to expand...

I don't believe this problem is running rampant as you have stated, but yes it does happen. You don't need be a KCBS member to compete so no need be a member for that reason. If you think sanctioned events are bad, you're in for some surprises the more backyard events you do where everyone thinks they can put on a contest.
 
Doing a little bit more search and found that the requirement for a letter guaranteeing pay out and level to KCBS 90 prior to contest date was eliminated in Feb/Mar, 2010 because of issues from one promoter who felt it was wrong to require it and he was able to bs enough people to have it eliminated.

It became, after that point, caveat emptor.
 
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