How do you get better?

[TooSaucedToPork]

You will see and taste what the " pros " turn in.

And what 1st timers, backyarders, and teams that think their stuff is so amazing, but it tastes like shoe leather turn in. Its blind, so you don't know a veteran or as you call it "pro" team from a less experienced team. It's not tasting the food that helps the most...its seeing the judging process from that perspective and talking to each judge after scoring that helps.

 

[New Pal Frank]

As a judge., you usually will see 24 entries during a contest. After the score cards are turned in, the judges usually will talk about what they liked and disliked in each catagory. Do this for 5-10 contest and you have a better understanding of what the judges like.

 

[Scottie]

I guess I have no clue what I am talking about.....

I need to work on being a "pro"...

Becoming a CBJ and judging few comps is one of the BEST things you can do to help you. Just think about it. You will see and taste what the " pros " turn in.
Anyone telling you something different definitely has no clue what they talking about.
Of course a class or cooking with winning team is a huge plus.

 

[DawgPhan]

practice

 

[JD McGee]

We (my wife and I) have never judged...we do ok...

1. Take a class...learning how to cook (texture) is paramount! Most teams do not teach flavors, those that do are expensive, but worth it if you are serious. Making pretty boxes is tedious and a royal PITA...but all part of the package. The top teams know how to present the meats in a manner that make the judges drool at first sight. :thumb:
2. Forget backyard (except at the AR Open...:tape...comp q is over seasoned...over sauced and under cooked...deal with it! :twisted:
3. Pay attention to your comment cards if you get them. Over time they will tell you what the judges are looking for.
4. Practice...practice...practice!!!

My two cents...:wink:

 

[LTG]

We (my wife and I) have never judged...we do ok...

Scottie and you are 2 special little snowflakes then.

I'm not stumping for kcbs here however a judges class is dirt cheap, doesn't kill 2 days, and is a good GENERAL guide to what judges are looking for. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[mjl]

practice

This.

In regards to the golf swing Ben Hogan said "the secret is in the dirt".

I am no Ben Hogan, but in regards to competition bbq, I would say " the secret is in the ashes""

You should be getting close when you no longer enjoy cooking or eating your food. Enjoy.

 

[rookiedad]

" the secret is in the ashes""

quick... someone make a t-shirt with this on it!!!

 

[Meat Man]

Our first comp we had some success right from the get go. I asked myself the same question before that contest, what are judges looking for. We've never judged, but I could see where judging would help. Especially where tenderness is concerned. After that first comp we spent the next two hoping to blow the socks off the judges with our flavor profiles, what a catastrophe. Keep it simple and balanced, if your making your own rubs and sauces great, if you are buying commercial rubs and sauces that's fine too. Just make sure they work well together. We have really cut back the amount of products we use to just a handful. Some of the best advice I ever got was "better to try not to offend that to impress."

 

[roksmith]

I found that when we were first getting started, the surround teams were a great help. Never once have I been turned down for a sample swap. The other teams are usually very good about giving constructive criticism and you can learn a great deal from sampling what they are turning in. We've found that the better cooks are very confident about their product and have no problem letting you taste it. This can help you develop a taste profile that the judges like.

 

[Podge]

I don't see how becoming a CBJ'S helps. If all you get is crappie food, how do you learn tastes? There are 2 ways to get better. The first is taking a class. Sure you have a large pay to begin but all it takes is to cook one contest and you will have spent more than the class. Remember, flavors are not everything. A perfectly cooked meat is the goal. Which leads me to the other way to get good. OK every weekend in your backyard. Learn how to cook different sized meats. Remember that every brisket doesn't come at 14#. When you think you have that down. Cook overnight at home and then do it again.... Immediately, this way you are cooking tired and cooking at off hours. Nothing sucks worse cooking in the backyard and having to pull meat at 2::00 am. When you think you have that down, practice more. When you really think you have it down, cook more. When every neighbor, co-workers and the crossing guard all tell you that you have the best BBQ ever. Don't believe their ass, you aren't even close. You still need to practice. When you can do th is blindfolded, move on to flavors.. Follow the above time line that I described on how to cook BBQ. When you have chicken for dinner 5 nights a week for a month. You might be there. Now you only have to get lucky with the judges....

What he said might be accomplished in a summer, might take years.

 

[Podge]

Scottie and you are 2 special little snowflakes then.

I'm not stumping for kcbs here however a judges class is dirt cheap, doesn't kill 2 days, and is a good GENERAL guide to what judges are looking for. Nothing more, nothing less.

There's a lot of us that feel the same way. A lot more snowflakes than you think.

I know of a team that judged for a few years, and started competing. They did ok, but only vastly improved once they took a good class. Judging doesn't teach you how to cook it right.

 

[LTG]

There's a lot of us that feel the same way. A lot more snowflakes than you think.

That is what makes America great however I do not get the negativity towards a judging class for a new team.

 

[JD McGee]

That is what makes America great however I do not get the negativity towards a judging class for a new team.

Not meant to be negative at all...unless the folks cooking for the judging class can nail the texture of each meat...the students will be clueless on what proper texture is. On the other hand if they take a cooking class from a team that knows how to nail it each time not only will they know how it tastes and feels...and tugs...and bites...but how to cook it too.

 

[Lake Dogs]

...Judging doesn't teach you how to cook it right.

You're absolutely correct! Only a class or two (and perhaps some shigging) will teach this. Classes teach (with any luck) techniques all over the place, on all types of things like box preparation/building, cooking, injecting, trimming, etc. etc. etc.

BUT, the original question had to do with taste. That I know of, if you're wanting to find out what wins and loses, and why they win or lose, is to actually sit in that chair (more than once) and experience it first hand. We can describe until we're green how tenderness more than anything else wins (or at least consistently puts you in that top 20%), but for many until they really pull those different entries apart, SEE the moisture, feel the tenderness, put the pork in the roof of their mouth, bite the rib from the bone, etc. the lights just dont come on for them. No, judging will NOT teach you how to cook.

Me; I've done both. I've been to classes, and I've judged. They both have their merits and teach VERY different things.

 

[Podge]

That is what makes America great however I do not get the negativity towards a judging class for a new team.

Not meant to be negative either. I just have seen a lot of emphasis on this forum over the years how people are quick to tell newbies to judge a contest or two, and be a CBJ, and leads them to think that this will teach them a ton, and I don't see that being the case. We've already discussed it ain't going to teach a new guy how to cook it properly, and it might teach them what the flavor they are tasting more often than not, and that flavor type 'profile' (hate saying that word) people are using, but it doesn't let them know it's smoking Guns Hot with Blues Hog doing the flavoring, But I cannot disagree that it will give them great ideas on presentation.

having seen "hey new guy, learn how to be a judge, and judge some contests" seems to be thrown out there a lot. A heck of a lot more than cook truck loads and truck loads of meat in practice, which is what will really help you out the most in the end.

 

[jaestar]

Judging doesn't tell you what rubs, sauce mixtures, injections, brines, marinades and ratios of each to use. Or how to properly trim the meat and what the cooking process is to get it to that desired taste. A person would have to do the judging, then remember what the flavors were, then spend time trying to replicate them. This would take a lot of time and more money than taking a tell all class. If you have that kind of patience, then go that route. If you want to start competing and be competitive right away, take a class.

I will go back to what I said before. I took a class just to learn how to cook brisket. Not being able to cook brisket cost me three GC's the year before I took the class. I took the class in 2013 and since then, I have had 7 GC's and 4 RGC's. The class has more than paid for itself. It probably paid for itself in the cost of practice cooks I would have had to do in the off-season trying to figure out brisket.

 

[Scottie]

I wasn't trying to be negative. Just honest. Have you ever cooked for a CBJ class? Have you ever boxed for a CBJ class? I've done, I believe 6 or 7 classes. I know that there isn't any love going into boxing, presentation or flavoring... The CBJ class is not about teaching flavors or perfectly cooked brisket. I know that it doesn't happen. Just as I know from the feedback that I get from teams that have been to our class and them letting me know how much time they have wacked off the learning curve... while I teach my flavors, I also reiterate in the class how teams should do their own flavors. They work for me and the way I cook. Doesn't mean it works for everyone. I know I can use the same stuff and cook it on a FE and also on my Jambo. I get different flavors, even though using same rubs.

So no a negativity to the CBJ program from me. I just don't see how it helps. For the record, I became a CBJ first and judged 2 contests before I cooked. More because of what was going on in my life at the time. If I had to do it all again, I would have jumped feet first in. Unfortunately, there weren't cooking classes when I started. It was me bending top cooks ears and befriending them is how I learnt how to cook. I still consider these guys as good friends after almost 15+ years.

That is what makes America great however I do not get the negativity towards a judging class for a new team.

 

[big matt]

My 2 cents..take a class if you want to learn to win and want to win early..a judging class(at least when I took it 2010)was IMO completely useless in regards to what type of food wins..at the class we ate some of the crappiest BBQ and it was BBQ I would never put in a turn in box as an example my slice of brisket had in inch of fat in the middle(it was a slice from where the point and flat meet)with about 1/4 inch of meat on each side..at that class I was sitting across from a guy who had already been on pitmasters and our team had already had our first RGC we looked straight at each other with the WTF look on our faces..we were stunned!..is this what judges were getting in the tent?..if it was we'd win every comp..but when I asked how could this stuff possibly win the answer was "oh no this isn't what wins or even close..your now the one to decide what first place or great or excellent BBQ is"..again another WTF moment!..so I came to a class to learn how to judge competition grade BBQ yet your feeding me crap I'd never turn in and now I'm supposed to be able to discern between good and great?..so basically in the end what I learned at that class was this..nobody fails(and there are plenty of people that should)and from a cooks standpoint what is shown is what NOT to do like the wrong garnishes or what will get you DQd it will NOT point you in the right direction as far as what to look for in flavors,taste or tenderness..if your are looking to judge most of the time this class only really gets you your CBJ card it's not until you've judged around 5 comps that you become familiar with the process..to wrap up this ramble a good quality competition BBQ class will get you much further than a CBJ class ever will.

 

[big matt]

Not meant to be negative at all...unless the folks cooking for the judging class can nail the texture of each meat...the students will be clueless on what proper texture is. On the other hand if they take a cooking class from a team that knows how to nail it each time not only will they know how it tastes and feels...and tugs...and bites...but how to cook it too.

One word..impossible!..hahaha