Help Deciding - Insulated Vertical vs Offset Vertical Smoker

[ngiovas]

I have been a long time lurker on the forum, but decided it was finally time to post. I know there are a ton of threads comparing types of smokers, but unfortunately there is so much information I can't keep it all straight :wink:. I was hoping some of you could point me in the right direction before I order a new smoker.

First of all, a little background about my smoking experience. My first smoker was a Brinkmann bullet smoker about 25 years ago. I liked it, but felt I really didn't have as much temperature control as I would have liked, so I switched to a 30" Masterbuilt electric smoker around 10 years ago. It gave me the temperature controls I like, but over time there were some issues that are making me want to upgrade to a new smoker:

• Capacity - This is a huge problem. I can fit two pork butts nicely, but really don't have any room for more. When it comes to ribs - forget about having a large party with ribs for everyone. While I often cook for four of us, I love loading up the smoker or grill and inviting friends and family over. It doesn't matter what time of year it is either (I live in Michigan). I have a large Super Bowl party every year with 30-40 people and always have something on the smoker. I am usually forced to something like pulled pork due to quantity.
• Smoker design - While the electric smoker is nice, it just doesn't feel like I'm smoking when I throw some small chps into the MES wood box. I really like the idea of being able to fuel the entire smoke session with wood.
• Flavor - I'm not sure if this one is true or not, but I would think that I can get better flavor from from a smoker that allows me to burn more wood - not just chips.

Now that you have the background, here is my dilemma - After looking into smokers for the past couple of months, I am 99% certain that I want a Lonestar Grillz smoker, but I can't decide which is right for me.

• Vertical Offset - this is what I am leaning towards. tons of capacity, and I don't mind tending to the fire, even for longer smoking sessions. My only concern is that there may be the occasional long smoke where I do want to tend to it a bit less. I am really wondering if using a charcoal basket and a BBQ Guru would give me the control I occasionally desire, or am I not going to get good results.
• Insulated Vertical Smoker - the other option is to spend the extra monely on an insulated vertical smoker and have the convenience when I need it. If I do that, I would be cooking with charcoal and wood. It's not really the experience I want most of the time and I'm not sure that it would give me the same result (I could be competely wrong here).

Sorry for the long winded first post. I just don't want to make the wrong choice and regret it later. Either choice will be far more expensive than anything I have owned in the past. I want to make sure it fits my needs for many years to come.

Nick

 

[SmittyJonz]

All depends if you wanna add wood every 45 minutes thru the entire cook or not. Being as you are coming from an Electric I'd say get the insulated cabinet then buy a less expensive offset like a $400 Old Country Pecos to see if you like stick burning.

 

[ngiovas]

All depends if you wanna add wood every 45 minutes thru the entire cook or not. Being as you are coming from an Electric I'd say get the insulated cabinet then buy a less expensive offset like a $400 Old Country Pecos to see if you like stick burning.

Thanks for the reply.

So even with the BBQ Guru and a charcoal basket, I will still be adding wood just as often? I guess I assumed that if you had a good bed of coals, you could slow down the burn rate on the wood. If that isn't the case, I guess I can't have both styles in one smoker.

Is it strictly the insulation that allows the insulated smoker to go all night on charcoal and wood? I thought that maybe I could get at least 4 or 5 hours on the offset if I had an insulated wood box and a charcoal basket.

 

[pjtexas1]

I'm with smitty. The jump from electric to stick burner is s big one. I know everybody wants to be like franklin but it's a lot more work than what you are used to. In Michigan I'm thinking the insulated vertical will have you cooking regardless of the weather. No bad decisions between the 2 you have picked out.

Edit: the vertical offset can run on charcoal. Ssv3 had a cook a few weeks back where he ran his on charcoal but I think he has the warmer and insulated firebox which adds a lot to the cost. Not sure if the standard will work as well or not. Best to check with Chris at LSG.

 

[SmittyJonz]

Thanks for the reply.

So even with the BBQ Guru and a charcoal basket, I will still be adding wood just as often? I guess I assumed that if you had a good bed of coals, you could slow down the burn rate on the wood. If that isn't the case, I guess I can't have both styles in one smoker.

Is it strictly the insulation that allows the insulated smoker to go all night on charcoal and wood? I thought that maybe I could get at least 4 or 5 hours on the offset if I had an insulated wood box and a charcoal basket.

Most people find on most stickburners that charcoal doesn't work too well. Some will run fine but EAT charcoal and get expensive - 2-3-4 bags per cook. Insulated firebox would help but nothing like the insulated cabinet.

 

[SmittyJonz]

If I were you and had the funds I'd get the smaller LSG insulated cabinet and a $699 Old Country Smokehouse Vertical. :heh: Then you have both styles and plenty of capacity either way.

http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/old-country-bbq-pits-smokehouse?repChildCatid=3321871

OR a Humphreys Pint cabinet and the Smokehouse......

 

[m-fine]

When burning wood, you don't want to control the temp by starving it of air, or you will get nasty smoke.

I you want a stick burner, get one. If you want guru control, get a charcoal burner. If you want both, get one of each or accept that there may be some pretty big compromises.

Also, I have a horizontal offset stick burner which is a bit different, but I don't run it in upstate NY winters. I found I could hold the temp but I had to burn much more wood to do so, and then the smoke flavor was more intense than desired. That could be managed, but in the end I felt it wasn't the right tool for the job and not worth it. Depending where you are in MI, your winters may be a touch milder than ours, and the verticals may be less impacted by weather, but if you want to use it from December to March, I would definitely consider an insulated firebox and chamber.

 

[ngiovas]

Thanks for all of the replies. Is there any difference flavor wise when using the insulated vertical smoker?

While I don't smoke as often in the winter, I will definitely use it. Chris felt there would be no problem using it in the cold with the insulated wood box. I sent Chris an email the other day asking for a quote with all of the upgrades I wanted. Once I get the price back, it may be closer to the insulated smoker since I wouldn't have many upgrades on it.

I have to think long and hard about how many times I would really be smoking where I can't tend to the fire. Typically, even on an overnight smoke, I tend to stay up even with the electric smoker just to make sure everything is going well. A couple of times I have grabbed a quick cat nap for an hour and just set an alarm so I could get up and check on things. I really think the fire tending isn't going to be an issue.

With that said, I guess I need to investigate the issues with smoking in the cold. We definitely get our fair share of sub zero temps here in the winter (not including the wind).

 

[SmittyJonz]

Smoke flavor difference will be minimal if you use more wood chunks in cabinet.

 

[pjtexas1]

Thanks for all of the replies. Is there any difference flavor wise when using the insulated vertical smoker?

that is mostly a personal preference. i have insulated cabinets and offsets. to me there is a limit to the quantity of wood chunks you can use because of the limited amount of oxygen needed to keep the temps in control. an offset will have a stronger wood flavor because of the all wood fire and the bigger volume of airflow. of course the type of wood makes a difference too.

 

[m-fine]

If you don't mind napping, you can use a temp alarm to wake you up when the fire drops below a certain temp. No need to wake to check it, you will know when you need to intervene.

If you get the insulated firebox, you could probably use blankets to keep the chamber a touch warmer on the coldest days.

 

[Leftwngr]

Offset heat control has more to do with amount of fuel and not by choking off air supply like an insulated cabinet. Flavor profile is great for both, especially in comparison to an electric. Getting flavor right on offset is a whole heck of a lot harder than as on an insulated cabinet.

If you want control via a guru, then the offset doesnt seem like a good fit. DTC devices are for set it and forget it convenience. No such thing on offset, and unnecessary for an insulated cabinet, if you ask me.

Sounds like you need a couple different cookers, which isnt exactly a bad thing.

Look for a place that does a bbq class with various cookers and go kick the tires on a few to see what you like.

 

[BillN]

Hmmm, as already said get one of each. Think how much fun you will have cooking on both. :wink:

 

[longwayfromhome]

If you look at this thread, http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=229641, you will find a discussion almost exactly on your topic. I am after a cooking process that is stick-burning for the first half and unattended for the second half of a cook, preferably in one machine. That is close to what you want. I understand you want stickburning most of the time, with periodic unattended cooks, either part of the cook or the whole cook isn't clear but this solution will work either way, as Brethren ssv3 describes in the thread.

The above is a stick-burner with charcoal option. The opposite is a charcoal vertical with a stick-burning option. This is found in the Deep South gravity feed smokers, where there is a $750 option to add stick-burning capability, this probably not as attractive for you as it is primarily a charcoal burner with stick-burning option. See here https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.716447228394303.1073741845.409076655798030&type=3 and general information here http://www.deepsouthsmokers.com/.

I have visited the LSG facility in Houston and their vertical offset is one oh so beautifully made machine.

Here is more discussion on finding a stick-burner with unattended capability: http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=229570 .

HTH.

 

[ssv3]

Two different animals and ultimately you have to go with the one you think will make the best sense for you. Terry (THoey1963) on here got the vertical offset but found out stick burning wasn't for him. He then bought the insulated and sold the offset. I'm sure he'll chime in.

I've had my LSG vertical offset for a little over year and a half and I love it. I thought it through before I bought my offset and again, no regrets. I outfitted mine to run with a charcoal basket and guru hook ups but I have yet to use a guru. It works best with sticks. Well works awesome with the basket also. A few weeks back I used my charcoal basket for the first time and got about 8+ hours with 2x18.6 Kingsford Comp bags. Ran about 275* and worked really well. I had a lot of downtime compared to running it with sticks. Basically nothing to do and just kick back. So there is that option when you're lazy and I'll use the charcoal basket again for sure. A few things I'll consider using the charcoal basket next time but that's besides the point and really happy with the outcome.

As for a flavor difference, while I haven't cooked on an insulated smoker, I do have other charcoal smokers and I'll say that there is a difference in flavor and I DO prefer the stick burner over any of them.

In the end just remember that a stick burner requires way more involvement the insulated. Insulated is more set and forget type of cooker but I must say that once you've got a nice coal bed going in a stick burner, all you do is add a stick every 30-45mins.

Here's the bigarse basket.

 

[ebijack]

You have a PM

 

[longwayfromhome]

Two different animals and ultimately you have to go with the one you think will make the best sense for you. Terry (THoey1963) on here got the vertical offset but found out stick burning wasn't for him. He then bought the insulated and sold the offset. I'm sure he'll chime in.

I've had my LSG vertical offset for a little over year and a half and I love it. I thought it through before I bought my offset and again, no regrets. I outfitted mine to run with a charcoal basket and guru hook ups but I have yet to use a guru. It works best with sticks. Well works awesome with the basket also. A few weeks back I used my charcoal basket for the first time and got about 8+ hours with 2x18.6 Kingsford Comp bags. Ran about 275* and worked really well. I had a lot of downtime compared to running it with sticks. Basically nothing to do and just kick back. So there is that option when you're lazy and I'll use the charcoal basket again for sure. A few things I'll consider using the charcoal basket next time but that's besides the point and really happy with the outcome.

As for a flavor difference, while I haven't cooked on an insulated smoker, I do have other charcoal smokers and I'll say that there is a difference in flavor and I DO prefer the stick burner over any of them.

In the end just remember that a stick burner requires way more involvement the insulated. Insulated is more set and forget type of cooker but I must say that once you've got a nice coal bed going in a stick burner, all you do is add a stick every 30-45mins.

Here's the bigarse basket.

Sako - a perfect description of a stick-burner with genuine charcoal capability. Great input from the real world for the OP.

 

[THoey1963]

As Sako mentioned, I have had both the Vertical Offset and the Insulated Cabinet from LSG. They are both excellent pieces of craftsmanship, they both produce excellent BBQ, and you can't go wrong either way. You just need to decide what type of smoker you are. Hands on stick burner or Got better things to do cabinet smoker.

I jumped from a WSM to stick burning, thinking I would like it. It was alright, I liked playing with fire, but not all night long, especially when it was cold and / or rainy out. It was an expensive lesson I learned. I lost some where from $1500 - $2000 turning around and selling it and getting it shipped to the new owner.

On the plus side, I now have the cabinet, which is similar, but better than the WSM that I came from. She's a beast, can hold 8 - 12 briskets, or 16+ pork butts, or 24 racks of ribs, or some mixture of all the above. And if loaded up, I see no reason she wouldn't run for 30 hours or more if needed (based off my estimates).

You are doing the right thing. Ask questions and really think about what you want before you get it...

 

[THoey1963]

Oh, and as Sako described above, while you "can" make a stick burner run off charcoal, they really aren't made to do that and are not very efficient. He described a 8+ hour cook using 36 pounds of charcoal. Unless you catch them on sale, a twin bag of charcoal like that runs about $20. Pretty expensive cook when you add the meat on top. Now, if you do this every once in a while just for special cooks, no biggie. The more you do it, the more it adds up.

Did a brisket on the cabinet smoker a couple weeks back. I added most of a 20 pound bag of charcoal to the leftover charcoal from the previous cook (maybe a couple pounds), so it looked like this:

After over fifteen hours of warm up, cooking, and extinguishing, I had used just over half the charcoal.

 

[G'Daddy]

Get both. There may be times when you want to grill a steak. Then other times smoke a brisket. I am not sure how well an insulated smoker can grill...