Concern over KCBS comment card vote

[Jeff_in_KC]

Thank you, but not a big deal, guys... that's what I was elected to do. I said I would be transparent and listen and keep people informed.

I don't want to draw this whole thing out forever - several member suggestions have been presented to the board members via email to think about. Josh, the issue with the proposal you suggested (and it was one I thought to be workable as well) is pretty much what Michael says below you - it would create a nightmare in box number changing at turn-in, especially for larger contests.

I am remaining confident that there will be a workable solution put together before it becomes an issue. Thanks to YOU ALL for your input and expressing your ideas and opinions!

 

[Slamdunkpro]

Something else to consider is that in a lot of cases low tech is more effective than high tech. If a stapler and a printed piece of paper is all that's needed to keep comment cards then by all means do it.

 

[Gowan]

I'm still not sure what the perceived problem with the blind judging system is. (and it's really single blind, not double blind).

I disagree. Double blind is the best description of the KCBS system. It's easy for the man-on-the-street to understand the concept that judges don't know who prepared the entries AND cooks don't know who is judging their stuff.

Maybe you're holding to an explicit definition of scientific method, but being overly technical just muddys the water for common folks.

I do agree that the KCBS system has worked remarkably well for many years. Refinement is one thing, but certainly the "Don't fix it if it ain't broke" wisdom applies. (Of course we all seem to agree that the lack of a unique TeamID does constitute broken!)

 

[swamprb]

IMO there is not enough time to do thoughtful comment cards with 30 minute turn ins.

 

[Rookie'48]

Sure there is. You only need to write "Too salty", "Too mushy", "Over sauced - can't taste the meat", etc. You don't need to write a book or try to tell the cook how to cook the product - just a simple few words to convey what you think is wrong with it.

Again, this is my opinion only.

 

[bbq.tom]

IMO there is not enough time to do thoughtful comment cards with 30 minute turn ins.

That's exactly what I used to think, but I was trying to tell the cook too much information. I wasn't trying to tell the cook how to cook, but taking too much time and effort in my comment. Simple is good. They will understand.

 

[bbq.tom]

Hance (Lake Dogs) has been suggesting a comment card with pre-identified problems so that the judge simply check-marks the appropriate box. I personally think that this is a great idea, but might be difficult with all the different possibilities. If kept VERY general with an "OTHER" category, and still have space to elaborate if necessary, it might just work.

 

[dmprantz]

Just my personal opinoin, but I'm not a big fan of check-box comment cards. I see it as a way to say "These are things you should be willing to mark down for." The meat is supposedto be judged as presented, and judges should taste it and see what they think, right? If they see pre-filled-out comment cards with "Too Salty" as an option, might a newer judge start tasting food for saltiness and deciding it is "too salty" since it was suggested as a possibillity? I don't think it takes too much time to write "too salty" six times. MHO.

dmp

 

[Gowan]

If they see pre-filled-out comment cards with "Too Salty" as an option, might a newer judge start tasting food for saltiness and deciding it is "too salty" since it was suggested as a possibillity?

That's a valid concern. It's a known fact that how the questions are asked influence the results of any survey. Food for thought!

 

[bbq.tom]

That's a valid concern. It's a known fact that how the questions are asked influence the results of any survey. Food for thought!

Don't just pass out the comment cards before judging, keep them for after scorecards have been marked and turned in (just like they are supposed to be) then there will be fewer judges "looking" for flaws. It's not perfect, but could potentially save time and provide "better" comments - fewer suggestions on "how to cook".

 

[JimmyDAL]

I agree about having comment cards and more importantly they should be mandatory. The International Chili Society can do it, so why can't KCBS. When I judged some (too many) were more concerned about filling their cooler. JMO

 

[bover]

Yeah it's really easy to say that the best way to fix all judging issues would be to ban coolers and enforce the usage of comment cards, but the problem with that is you'd alienate a big chunk of dues-paying CBJs. That wouldn't do anybody any good. There is a happy medium between the two extremes...we've just got to find it. I'm optimistic that the four new BoD members can make strides in getting there, especially Dave as the Judges Advocate.

 

[dmprantz]

I think that comment cards are good, though I don't have an opinion on their forced usage. Similarly, I don't have an opinion on banning coolers.

Still, whatever policy is made regarding those, I honestly would not be concerned with alienating any "dues-paying CBJs" with them, especially if it will raise or solidify the integrity of the sport. I pay hundreds of dollars per contest and thousands of dollars per year to compete. If I hurt the feelings of some one who pays $25 a year to eat free BBQ once a month and doesn't take it seriously enough to follow the rules as laid out, I think it's a win/win situation.

I'm sure KCBS will care a lot more than I do, potentially even to the detriment of the sport, since those CBJ dues are income. Again, I'm not saying either of those policies should be put into place, but if it's what's best, I say do it regardless of the few CBJs who will choose to quit rather than justify their low scores or consider the experience only a way to take free food home.

That's just me though...

dmp

 

[Podge]

I've only had one comment card and wished I've gotten more!.. I hope this doesn't end..

 

[Smoke'n Ice]

Mandatory cards would be non-productive. A casual judge would put down some such nonsense and go on eating and filling his cooler while the dedicated judge would at least think about his comments. without some guidance from the reps and table captains, the use of these are next to useless while useless can be better.

Guidance and buy in by the BOD and the reps is mandatory for them to work. The best that I have been able to garner from listening to BOD meetings and reading posts etc., there are some BOD members, past and present, who do not want them nor do they encourage them. Until there is buy in by those who adminster the rules and train the judges, the use of comment card is counter productive and downright useless.

As far as tying them in to the scoring system and marrying them to the correct sheet, it should be a no-brainer unless you don't want it to happen. JMHO.

 

[smoke-n-my-i's]

Here are my thoughts on comment cards.

When I first started competing, I wanted them.... I was in hopes to get some great comment on how to improve on what I was already doing.

Well, much to my dismay, they did NOT help. At one time, I got several, and the comments were from all spectrums, and now they are just a waste of time, in my opinion. I got cards for the same meat turn in from great taste, to too bland, great tenderness to too tough. You get the picture. It is subjective to each judge and his/her taste.

So, for what it is worth, unless it is something really BAD, and more than one judge agrees on it, they should NOT be used.

 

[HBMTN]

I have gotten about 4 comment cards in the past, 2 of which were both flavor issues judges did not like sauce or thought sauce too over powering or chicken had no flavor. Funny part to me was that I got top five in the meat I got these cards on. So clearly other judges did not feel the same. The other two I knew I had a problem before I submitted the boxes. I don't pay attention to them anymore.

 

[smoke-n-my-i's]

and if it is a programming problem, why not have the program track the original number, someone input the comment card info into the program (under the blind number), as the program will reference the original number, and when the score sheets are printed out, you have the comment card info printed on your score sheets..... the "blind" number will be "hidden" in the programming...