Charcoal source wood and binders ?!?!?!

Michigan BBQ Fan

Michigan BBQ Fan

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Apr 11, 2018
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Scott
HI Brethern,

I'm starting to do some research and see if I can get a good comparison on the different types of charcoal out there. Is there any way to tell where a company sources their wood from? I've read the horror stories of hardwood flooring full of nails ending up in bags etc. I'm a big user of Jealous Devil and like the backstory of clean Peruvian hardwood. Do we know where some of the other "big dogs" in the business source there wood?

Also, I know that when it comes to most lump it's just the wood you are getting (no binders.) Do they all use pretty much the same process to get it from wood to charcoal or is that a "better" way to do that as well?

Lastly, when we move into the world of briquettes we enter the world of binders and additives. What's better? What is to be avoided? Since I use the Jealous Devil hardwood lump so much I'm interested to see what their briquette product is going to be like. They say it's going to be out in 2020 and it contains "...no fillers, chemicals or toxic mystery ingredients"...but...it does have "...a bit of plant-derived starch."

I'm sure that some of you have links to resources and/or lots of knowledge about the hows/whys/whats etc of the charcoal world. Thanks for the help. Happy Smokin'
 
LYU370 said:
http://www.nakedwhiz.com/lumpindexpage.htm?bag

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_wXU1k85oE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bmsetZxgsY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNHXDcNQ8j0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WI_2fuSeac
Click to expand...

Thanks good stuff. I had forgotten about the NakedWhiz reviews. I really like how such a wide variety of brands are covered. I thought I remember that the "Big Blue" was made with wood chips/dust. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I so used to opening a bag of Jealous Devil and seeing real pieces of wood. Other brands have that same look and feel but the pieces are usually smaller. Thanks for the YT links. I think I've seen a few before but need to revisit. Happy Smokin'
 
Count me as a guy who is happier than a pig in slop when I have a Weber kettle, some original Kingsford, a few chunks of apple wood, a couple pulls of beer or bourbon, and some local beef, pork, or chicken where I shook the farmer’s hand and handed him cash money for his trouble. That is my version of good backyard cooking. The Kingsford does its job every time and if I do my part the meat ain’t too shabby. If that’s wrong I don’t wanna be right.

I bet meat cooked over $30/bag lump is damn good too. Best of luck to those that go that route.
 
Grain Belt said:
Count me as a guy who is happier than a pig in slop when I have a Weber kettle, some original Kingsford, a few chunks of apple wood, a couple pulls of beer or bourbon, and some local beef, pork, or chicken where I shook the farmer’s hand and handed him cash money for his trouble. That is my version of good backyard cooking. The Kingsford does its job every time and if I do my part the meat ain’t too shabby. If that’s wrong I don’t wanna be right.

I bet meat cooked over $30/bag lump is damn good too. Best of luck to those that go that route.
Click to expand...

Lot of room between Kingsford and $30/bag lump.

I smoke using Royal Oak all natural briquettes from Walmart for less than $8 for a 16lbs bag. Their lump charcoal is also inexpensive and cooks great.
 
CHARCOAL BRIQUETTES or LUMP CHARCOAL - an Age Old Debate that Contiues

First we need to realize that not all charcoal is created using the same methods and manners of production. There are various levels of the quality in the production of both lump charcoal and charcoal briquettes. Simply put there is no equality in the use of different types or brands of charcoal.

Generally speaking Lump charcoal is made from pieces of wood whereas briquettes have binders and other additives which hold them together and control the rate of burn.


Lump Charcoal - Just as it states, these are random sized pieces of hardwood charcoal. It is just wood that has been turned into charcoal using heat without combustion. Lump charcoal contains more carbon and less impurities. Lump charcoal will burn at a higher temperature and will leave less ash than briquettes.

Briquette Charcoal - Are uniform pillow shaped pieces of charcoal. Most briquettes are simply the left over by-products of wood manufacturing products and scrap from the Lump Charcoal Producers. They take the by-products and left over pieces and grind them to a consistent size and then use potato, wheat or corn starch as a binding agent. Some Producers also add mineral char, coal, limestone, starch, borax, and sodium nitrate. https://youtu.be/v7Rmzr3lkJs


The advantage of briquettes is that they burn at a lower temperature for a longer period of time than lump charcoal.

Some say briquettes are ideally suited if you are doing ribs or using the low and slow cooking method for long hours. Briquettes now also come in flavors by impregnating bits of hickory or mesquite chips into the briquettes have for an added ease of usage.

Many users say the binders and additives used in briquette production give the meat an off taste during the cooking process while others don't notice anything.

Bottom line it is what you like to use or what works best for you...


also....

http://old.cbbqa.org/wood/Kingsford.html - quoted below

Kingsford Brand Charcoal Briquettes are the best selling briquettes in the U.S. They are also widely used by many veteran barbecue experts, including cooks at barbecue contests.

Some claim that Kingsford briquettes have an unpleasant odor, especially when they are first lit, and many wonder if they contain any petroleum products. After an inquiry, it has been determined that Kingsford Brand charcoal briquettes do not contain any petroleum products.

Kingsford ingredients

Kingsford sends a form letter in response to consumer's questions about the ingredients. According to the form letter sent in August, 2000, Kingsford contains the following ingredients:

wood char
mineral char (coal)
mineral carbon (coal)
limestone
starch
borax
sodium nitrate
sawdust

Purpose of ingredients

There so many ingredients because the addition of each requires another to offset its negative affect. For example, in order to make the briquets easier to light, sodium nitrate is added. But then limestone is added so that, when the briquettes get started, they have the typical light-ash color.
Here are the purposes for each of the ingredients:

wood char: for heat
mineral char (coal): also for heat
mineral carbon (coal): also for heat
limestone: for the light-ash color
starch: to bind the other ingredients
borax: press release
sodium nitrate: to speed the ignition
sawdust: to speed the ignition
Click to expand...
also see - http://virtualweberbullet.com/charcoal.html
 
Subscribed! I'm very interested in this topic too. I would much prefer to use lump charcoal over briquette for everything if possible.

She just got me a Slow n Sear for Christmas, which makes smoking with lump in the kettle much easier. I'll be watching all the youtube videos as soon as I can.
 
According to Kingsford's latest Safety Data Sheet, they have simplified their ingredient list in the 20 years since the information posted above was distributed. Now they only list "charcoal"; "limestone"; "wood dust, all soft and hardwoods"; and "sodium tetraborate decahydrate." https://www.thecloroxcompany.com/wp...sfordoriginalcharcoalbriquetsjw2014-11-07.pdf

I live near a plant that manufactures KBB. Their source material is stored outside in a great big pile for all the world to see. It is sawdust from local sawmills. In this area, the vast majority of timber harvested is hardwoods, but it's possible that a little softwood gets mixed in with it.
 
Grain Belt said:
Count me as a guy who is happier than a pig in slop when I have a Weber kettle, some original Kingsford, a few chunks of apple wood, a couple pulls of beer or bourbon, and some local beef, pork, or chicken where I shook the farmer’s hand and handed him cash money for his trouble. That is my version of good backyard cooking. The Kingsford does its job every time and if I do my part the meat ain’t too shabby. If that’s wrong I don’t wanna be right.

I bet meat cooked over $30/bag lump is damn good too. Best of luck to those that go that route.
Click to expand...

I know tons that swear by the same steps. I too love building relationships with local famers and butchers. I like to know where my meat comes from and it makes me feel better to be connected. I do know there is a "can't go wrong" feel to using the good ol' Blue Bag. I find that I use a lot less when I go with a premium brand. When I use Jealous Devil I find that while it costs more, I use less. The end result is a wash but with what I feel is a cleaner burn. Thanks for chiming in. Happy Smokin'
 
IamMadMan said:
CHARCOAL BRIQUETTES or LUMP CHARCOAL - an Age Old Debate that Contiues

First we need to realize that not all charcoal is created using the same methods and manners of production. There are various levels of the quality in the production of both lump charcoal and charcoal briquettes. Simply put there is no equality in the use of different types or brands of charcoal.

Generally speaking Lump charcoal is made from pieces of wood whereas briquettes have binders and other additives which hold them together and control the rate of burn.


Lump Charcoal - Just as it states, these are random sized pieces of hardwood charcoal. It is just wood that has been turned into charcoal using heat without combustion. Lump charcoal contains more carbon and less impurities. Lump charcoal will burn at a higher temperature and will leave less ash than briquettes.

Briquette Charcoal - Are uniform pillow shaped pieces of charcoal. Most briquettes are simply the left over by-products of wood manufacturing products and scrap from the Lump Charcoal Producers. They take the by-products and left over pieces and grind them to a consistent size and then use potato, wheat or corn starch as a binding agent. Some Producers also add mineral char, coal, limestone, starch, borax, and sodium nitrate. https://youtu.be/v7Rmzr3lkJs


The advantage of briquettes is that they burn at a lower temperature for a longer period of time than lump charcoal.

Some say briquettes are ideally suited if you are doing ribs or using the low and slow cooking method for long hours. Briquettes now also come in flavors by impregnating bits of hickory or mesquite chips into the briquettes have for an added ease of usage.

Many users say the binders and additives used in briquette production give the meat an off taste during the cooking process while others don't notice anything.

Bottom line it is what you like to use or what works best for you...


also....

http://old.cbbqa.org/wood/Kingsford.html - quoted below


also see - http://virtualweberbullet.com/charcoal.html
Click to expand...


Great stuff here and thanks for the links to CBBQA and VWB. I get that it's not all "created equal." Sometimes the idea of not knowing where the wood came from or what is mixed into it concerns me. I'm less worried about it putting an "off" taste to the food as much as I am about bathing it binder chemicals. I have no idea what the big differences are in the source wood for lump brands. I know that a lot do use byproducts of the wood industry. The price does jump up when you go to wood that has been more naturally sourced and harvested. Most don't seem to be transparent about this part of the process. I know that Jealous Devil does put it out there as to where it comes from etc. Does it make a difference in the taste/product? I'm not sure. Happy Smokin'
 
Monkey Uncle said:
According to Kingsford's latest Safety Data Sheet, they have simplified their ingredient list in the 20 years since the information posted above was distributed. Now they only list "charcoal"; "limestone"; "wood dust, all soft and hardwoods"; and "sodium tetraborate decahydrate." https://www.thecloroxcompany.com/wp...sfordoriginalcharcoalbriquetsjw2014-11-07.pdf

I live near a plant that manufactures KBB. Their source material is stored outside in a great big pile for all the world to see. It is sawdust from local sawmills. In this area, the vast majority of timber harvested is hardwoods, but it's possible that a little softwood gets mixed in with it.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Good find on the ingredient change. The general description of the woods is great but does still feel like it's a "byproduct" source. Does anybody know what "sodium tetraborate decahydrate" is, why it's needed or what makes it better than a "natural" option. It could just be a cost issue. The natural options could cost more or be harder to work with in a manufacturing setting. I think Jelous Devil makes their hardwood lump outside of the USA but I'm not sure about the new briquette product. If using the natural binders does cost more, it would explain the higher cost to these type products.
 
I appreciate the responses to my previous comment. I like to take variables out of my cooks. My dad and I have rehabbed over a dozen Weber kettles and have them at cabins, homes and fishing and hunting camps throughout the upper Midwest. We give them to people who express interest in our home and camp cooking methods. So wherever I go recreationally I have access to a kettle. At my places I have Kingsford and various smoke woods and my friends and family have adapted to the same supplies. Long story short, I can complete all my recipes in multiple locations because my variables are minimized. I also have a Jumbo Joe 18 1/2 inch portable kettle in addition to access to many 22 1/2 inch kettles. My use of Kingsford allows me cook anything I want exactly how I want. Cook times are always within a few minutes all seasons, all places. I have this weird idea that if I become competent with Big Green Eggs or Traegers that I will need to have 6-10 of them at all the places I visit to cook how I like. Anyways, I am weird and Kingsford makes stuff taste how I like it to taste where I want to taste it off my Webers. Could I do a similar thing with another brand or lump? Maybe? I have used some lump and other briquettes like Royal Oak, Weber , Stubbs, and some store brands. But the bottom line is, when I pack the truck for deer camp I grab the old Kingsford bag because I know it will do what I need it to do.
 
Grain Belt said:
I appreciate the responses to my previous comment. I like to take variables out of my cooks. My dad and I have rehabbed over a dozen Weber kettles and have them at cabins, homes and fishing and hunting camps throughout the upper Midwest. We give them to people who express interest in our home and camp cooking methods. So wherever I go recreationally I have access to a kettle. At my places I have Kingsford and various smoke woods and my friends and family have adapted to the same supplies. Long story short, I can complete all my recipes in multiple locations because my variables are minimized. I also have a Jumbo Joe 18 1/2 inch portable kettle in addition to access to many 22 1/2 inch kettles. My use of Kingsford allows me cook anything I want exactly how I want. Cook times are always within a few minutes all seasons, all places. I have this weird idea that if I become competent with Big Green Eggs or Traegers that I will need to have 6-10 of them at all the places I visit to cook how I like. Anyways, I am weird and Kingsford makes stuff taste how I like it to taste where I want to taste it off my Webers. Could I do a similar thing with another brand or lump? Maybe? I have used some lump and other briquettes like Royal Oak, Weber , Stubbs, and some store brands. But the bottom line is, when I pack the truck for deer camp I grab the old Kingsford bag because I know it will do what I need it to do.
Click to expand...

Great thoughts here. I love the idea that you can pick up a bag of Blue anywhere you are and know with confidence that you already have a roadmap for a good cook. For me, the best part of BBQ is sharing. I always say, "You can't text message a pound of brisket to your buddy." All that cross your path and come away with a fixed up Weber is lucky. Spread the BBQ love!

If had started my BBQ journey with Big Blue I think I would be on the same path. I got most of my early guidance from Gary Wiviott's Low and Slow, so, I turned to lump right away. Since I was using a WSM, I stumbled quickly upon Harry Soo and his love for Jealous Devil. It's what I cut my teeth on and so it's what I know.

I've never really been intrigued by the pellet smokers and I feel a stick burner might need more babysitting that I'm willing to give it. I am intrigued by UDS smokers and might make that my next step. I could see myself leaving those all around the Midwest as well. Happy Smokin' Glad to be on this journey with you.
 
Michigan BBQ Fan said:
Thanks. Good find on the ingredient change. The general description of the woods is great but does still feel like it's a "byproduct" source. Does anybody know what "sodium tetraborate decahydrate" is, why it's needed or what makes it better than a "natural" option. It could just be a cost issue. The natural options could cost more or be harder to work with in a manufacturing setting. I think Jelous Devil makes their hardwood lump outside of the USA but I'm not sure about the new briquette product. If using the natural binders does cost more, it would explain the higher cost to these type products.
Click to expand...

Sodium tetraborate decahydrate is the chemical name for borax.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/chemical-engineering/sodium-borate
It's used as a binder. I didn't know this until I pulled up that web page, but borax is non-combustible, so much so that it is used as a fire retardant. So, theoretically, it should not contribute to the flavor profile of your smoke, unless the unburned particles can be volatilized. Not sure if that's possible or not.

As far as the use of "byproducts" goes, I think that's going to be the case for any affordable charcoal. Cutting your own timber specifically for making charcoal would get expensive. By using what is essentially someone else's waste product, whether it be sawdust in briquettes or sawmill trimmings in lump, the companies can get their raw material at a reasonable cost. Personally, I don't see anything bad about that, as long as the wood isn't treated or otherwise contaminated. It's just wood, same as if they went out and cut their own trees.
 
Monkey Uncle said:
Sodium tetraborate decahydrate is the chemical name for borax.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/chemical-engineering/sodium-borate
It's used as a binder. I didn't know this until I pulled up that web page, but borax is non-combustible, so much so that it is used as a fire retardant. So, theoretically, it should not contribute to the flavor profile of your smoke, unless the unburned particles can be volatilized. Not sure if that's possible or not.

As far as the use of "byproducts" goes, I think that's going to be the case for any affordable charcoal. Cutting your own timber specifically for making charcoal would get expensive. By using what is essentially someone else's waste product, whether it be sawdust in briquettes or sawmill trimmings in lump, the companies can get their raw material at a reasonable cost. Personally, I don't see anything bad about that, as long as the wood isn't treated or otherwise contaminated. It's just wood, same as if they went out and cut their own trees.
Click to expand...

Thanks for joining the discussion. I agree. On one level "wood is wood" and if there is no detectable difference in the final product (BBQ) then why worry. I know that when I step up my game on meat selection I see a huge difference in the final outcome. My worry is that I invest in higher-quality meats and then bath them in "borax" for hours.

I know that they say that heat comes from the charcoal and flavor comes from the wood (Apple, Hickory etc.), but I'm looking to better understand if it does make a difference and if so, how much. I've found that when I step up to premium brands I worry less about the overall cook. It might just be marketing and me trying to justify the extra money spend on the product.

When companies like Jealous Devil pull back the curtain and show me exactly what is in the product, where it comes from and they control the entire process, I feel I'm upping my charcoal game to the level of my meat selection etc.

What I do like is that there are options out there. Just like any product category you can pick a range of price and quality options. Some of the higher-end lump products, while easy to get online and many with free shipping, you can't find them in a convenient retail outlet. If I want to head to the corner to Wally World, I'm going to come home with Big Blue or a bag of Cowboy Pieces.

Happy New Year. Happy Smokin'
 
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