2dumb2kwit
Full Fledged Farker
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2011
- Location
- Elizabet...
What? You mean that you don't believe the USDA, when they say that pink slime is OK to feed to school kids.:-D
What? You mean that you don't believe the USDA, when they say that pink slime is OK to feed to school kids.:-D
I rather like this, and think it is very sound advice too, in the argument for charcoal grilling.
El Ropo
Quintessential Chatty Farker
I've probably said this before, but will say it again.
Following a school bus to work several times a week is probably a lot more dangerous to your health than eating BBQ.
Those buses spew out some nasty stuff, and seem to be exempt from emission laws.
What about that wax coating they spray on apples?
Following a school bus to work several times a week is probably a lot more dangerous to your health than eating BBQ.
Those buses spew out some nasty stuff, and seem to be exempt from emission laws.
What about that wax coating they spray on apples?
Kingsford does NOT contain petroleum or petro-chemicals, except for Match-Light -- or if you pour charcoal starter fluid on your Kingsford. But the regular old Kingsford Blue has no petroleum or petro-chemicals.
CD
SirPorkaLot
somebody shut me the fark up.
Easy - don't marry a health conscious educated lady. :shock:
That being said, it is not proven that cooking over charcoal cause cancer anymore than it is proven that having two degrees and promoting a healthy lifestyle will extend your time on earth.
Enjoy your time here on earth, as it is very limited. :thumb:
That being said, it is not proven that cooking over charcoal cause cancer anymore than it is proven that having two degrees and promoting a healthy lifestyle will extend your time on earth.
Enjoy your time here on earth, as it is very limited. :thumb:
SirPorkaLot
somebody shut me the fark up.
Sorry - lump is no better for you than briquettes.
Of course, if you are convinced it is..then so be it.
It is your story, you can tell it anyway you want. :mrgreen:
F
frohe
Guest
Scientific I am not nor will I try to refute the information the learned have amassed to state their view against charcoal. I do think though we all should take things into a larger macro about life. Of all the things we do and enjoy, everything can kill us. From just getting out of bed or trusting the fellow drivers you encounter that they have their vehicle under control and you won't get into an accident that tosses you through the windshield and kills you.
There is only one guarantee in life - death. How it happens is something none of us can control. When it happens, it happens and we're simply out of here.
So, that said, I have to conclude that the limited amount of charcoal one would encounter through their life may or may not give them cancer. I, for one, haven't heard that much about folks who have gotten cancer from charcoal. When it becomes epidemic, then I might worry. But until then, I'm using my lump to cook some good eats for me, my family & friends.
F
frohe
Guest
Man, what a list. I think I may have injested some of those last night. I gotta be more careful about what I'm eating. :-D :-D :-D
A
AlanTX
Guest
And there's more? Holy chit. I can't believe I'm not dead yet.
Well from now on, I'm not going to grill my food. I'm going to deep fry it in lard because that's much healthier. :becky: Many times I hear people say they won't eat something because it is unhealthy and then proceed to eat something else that is much worse, then get run over by a car the next day. OK, maybe not, but you get my point.
Sadly, when something is smeared, it is impossible to unsmear it. We simply cannot prove a negative, that something does not cause cancer, and this goes for anything, broccoli, chicken, green beans, whatever. They all cause cancer, or at the very least, we cannot prove that they don't. Pick your poison: I'll pick a grilled steak.
BTW, this news arrives via the Center for Science in the Public Interest, the same people who make their living by scaring us about everything pleasurable in life. I am happily on their mailing list so they can waste their money asking me for donations I will never give.
Sadly, when something is smeared, it is impossible to unsmear it. We simply cannot prove a negative, that something does not cause cancer, and this goes for anything, broccoli, chicken, green beans, whatever. They all cause cancer, or at the very least, we cannot prove that they don't. Pick your poison: I'll pick a grilled steak.
BTW, this news arrives via the Center for Science in the Public Interest, the same people who make their living by scaring us about everything pleasurable in life. I am happily on their mailing list so they can waste their money asking me for donations I will never give.
Clarification: Anthracite coal, dug up form mines hundreds or 1,000 of feet below the surface is just not "carbonized wood". Just does NOT belong in the Q or on your food.
Thats' my story and I'm sticking with it! Just wish I had a source for coconut shell charcoal. That was clean heat!
....oh well, nothing ever stays the same.
I'm gonna flash a flank steak on the K tonight. Pics to follow....
Thats' my story and I'm sticking with it! Just wish I had a source for coconut shell charcoal. That was clean heat!
....oh well, nothing ever stays the same.
I'm gonna flash a flank steak on the K tonight. Pics to follow....
You mean no more Kingsford briquettes in milk for breakfast?
:shock:
Damn! And they really stayed crunchy too.
I am a cancer survivor too, and I am not at all sure how that might be germain to this discussion except to say, I hope you never get the application to join the club. That being said, one thing you learn sitting there in the radiation ward, watching folks slowly die, is that you have to live life as if it is the only chance you are going to get. Now, is there a reason to live as long as possible, sure, I imagine there are many. I sure as heck don't want to die. But, the real trick to life is not just to get older, it is to enjoy the journey as well.
I do not take these things lightly, cancer has farked the heck out of my life, I am in forced retirement, at 50, from a job I truly love and am still quite passionate about. Everytime I try to ramp up, both to make money (sauce I want a Klose and a Spicewine :becky
and to return to what I truly love to do, I get terribly ill. I would never advise someone to do something that would knowingly cause cancer in them. But, to fear it to the point where I allowed it to control how I lived, would be giving in to that particular kind of walking death.
There is no definitive proof that cooking over a live fire will cause cancer, in fact, the largest body of information does carry a political payload with it. There are many studies that indicate that our current diet is anathema to our overall health. Studies such as The China Study and The Blue Zones, as well as multiple studies by the Seventh Day Adventists point to the actual danger being the meat itself. As well as refined fats and sugars themselves. Don't get me started on the irony of Kelloggs Frosted Flakes. Other studies suggest that dairy is a huge contributor to both inflammation and glandular disorders, and some of these studies are quite rigorous.
Now we are told that mankind is not evolved to eat wheat and roots, that we are not evolved to eat grains etc...where does it end? Soylent Green? How can man not be evolved to eat wheat, it is the oldest known domesticated crop, going back some 6,000 years of solid proof, and closer to 14,000 years based upon the science of genetic divergence. I was just told of a study suggesting corn is bad for us, and we should only eat archaic corn. Huh? Where do I find ancient corn? The reality is, food science if fraught with studies that can appear to be quite scientifically rigorous, but, are established with an agenda tied to funding.
Without peer review and publication in a reviewed journal, there is no proof that charcoal cooking is dangerous. Do I suggest eating red meat every day, no, I don't suggest eating anything everyday exclusively, you'll die from malnutrition long before the cancer gets you. You can't out think or out maneuver a genetic malfunction at a cellular level, a mutation or faulty genetic switch, it is what it is.
I do not take these things lightly, cancer has farked the heck out of my life, I am in forced retirement, at 50, from a job I truly love and am still quite passionate about. Everytime I try to ramp up, both to make money (sauce I want a Klose and a Spicewine :becky
and to return to what I truly love to do, I get terribly ill. I would never advise someone to do something that would knowingly cause cancer in them. But, to fear it to the point where I allowed it to control how I lived, would be giving in to that particular kind of walking death.There is no definitive proof that cooking over a live fire will cause cancer, in fact, the largest body of information does carry a political payload with it. There are many studies that indicate that our current diet is anathema to our overall health. Studies such as The China Study and The Blue Zones, as well as multiple studies by the Seventh Day Adventists point to the actual danger being the meat itself. As well as refined fats and sugars themselves. Don't get me started on the irony of Kelloggs Frosted Flakes. Other studies suggest that dairy is a huge contributor to both inflammation and glandular disorders, and some of these studies are quite rigorous.
Now we are told that mankind is not evolved to eat wheat and roots, that we are not evolved to eat grains etc...where does it end? Soylent Green? How can man not be evolved to eat wheat, it is the oldest known domesticated crop, going back some 6,000 years of solid proof, and closer to 14,000 years based upon the science of genetic divergence. I was just told of a study suggesting corn is bad for us, and we should only eat archaic corn. Huh? Where do I find ancient corn? The reality is, food science if fraught with studies that can appear to be quite scientifically rigorous, but, are established with an agenda tied to funding.
Without peer review and publication in a reviewed journal, there is no proof that charcoal cooking is dangerous. Do I suggest eating red meat every day, no, I don't suggest eating anything everyday exclusively, you'll die from malnutrition long before the cancer gets you. You can't out think or out maneuver a genetic malfunction at a cellular level, a mutation or faulty genetic switch, it is what it is.
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2011
- Location
- Lawrence...
And lots of the best Q is cooked with briquettes. I get the point about lump being more pure, but you definitely like to point out many times that a lot of the top Q'ers in the country (many on this forum) are "stupid/not smart/have no good sense/have no taste buds/don't know what good food is/etc" because they use briquettes. But it seems like your trolling gets responses :becky:.
Triple T BBQ
Full Fledged Farker
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2011
- Location
- SE...
Am interesting article from JAMA. Read and discuss. No shooting of the person sharing the link please. The conclusion covers most of the opinions of the research nicely. I am still cooking BBQ this weekend....
http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/241/6/617.full.pdf
Carcinogenic substances enter the
food supply in various ways. Arcos18
notes that a number of chemical
compounds produced by plants and in
the metabolism of certain molds are
carcinogenic and that the "naturally
occurring carcinogens constitute one
of the most rapidly growing and most
exciting areas of the study of chemi¬
cal carcinogenesis."
Pyrolysis pro¬
duces benzo(a)-pyrene in many foods,
including roasted coffee, smoked
meats, and caramelized sugar. Pyrol¬
ysis of proteins produces other mutagenic
substances from amino acids.
http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/241/6/617.full.pdf
Products of Pyrolysis:
Following the discovery and use of
fire, a new category of carcinogens
entered the food supply. These are the
products of pyrolysis that occur in
charring of food caused by toasting,
barbecuing, frying, baking, roasting,
and smoking. The carcinogenic poten¬
tial of these products has long been
evident.
Lijinsky and Shubik13 pointed
out that "it has been suggested many
times that high-temperature cooking
of food might give rise to carcinogenic
hydrocarbons of the polynuclear aro¬
matic group."
They found that such compounds were present in beef¬
steaks following charcoal broiling and
that the carcinogen benzo(a)-pyrene
was present at 8 ppb, probably by
deposition on the meat from the
smoke of burning fat during the
barbecuing process.
Nagao and co-workers" found that
strongly mutagenic substances are
produced when protein-rich foods
such as meat and fish are scorched to
the point of becoming charred. Indi¬
vidual amino acids, especially tryptophan,
serine, and glutamic acid, gave
rise to mutagens on pyrolysis, and
some of the mutagens were identified
and synthesized. Moreover, two of the
products from tryptophan produced
in vitro transformation of cultured
hamster embryo cells, a property that
is strongly correlated with carcinogenicity.
15
The production of mutagens and
carcinogens in foods by various cook¬
ing processes will undoubtedly receive
intensive further investigation.
Evidently, barbecue pits are carcinogen
factories.Following the discovery and use of
fire, a new category of carcinogens
entered the food supply. These are the
products of pyrolysis that occur in
charring of food caused by toasting,
barbecuing, frying, baking, roasting,
and smoking. The carcinogenic poten¬
tial of these products has long been
evident.
Lijinsky and Shubik13 pointed
out that "it has been suggested many
times that high-temperature cooking
of food might give rise to carcinogenic
hydrocarbons of the polynuclear aro¬
matic group."
They found that such compounds were present in beef¬
steaks following charcoal broiling and
that the carcinogen benzo(a)-pyrene
was present at 8 ppb, probably by
deposition on the meat from the
smoke of burning fat during the
barbecuing process.
Nagao and co-workers" found that
strongly mutagenic substances are
produced when protein-rich foods
such as meat and fish are scorched to
the point of becoming charred. Indi¬
vidual amino acids, especially tryptophan,
serine, and glutamic acid, gave
rise to mutagens on pyrolysis, and
some of the mutagens were identified
and synthesized. Moreover, two of the
products from tryptophan produced
in vitro transformation of cultured
hamster embryo cells, a property that
is strongly correlated with carcinogenicity.
15
The production of mutagens and
carcinogens in foods by various cook¬
ing processes will undoubtedly receive
intensive further investigation.
Evidently, barbecue pits are carcinogen
Carcinogenic substances enter the
food supply in various ways. Arcos18
notes that a number of chemical
compounds produced by plants and in
the metabolism of certain molds are
carcinogenic and that the "naturally
occurring carcinogens constitute one
of the most rapidly growing and most
exciting areas of the study of chemi¬
cal carcinogenesis."
Pyrolysis pro¬
duces benzo(a)-pyrene in many foods,
including roasted coffee, smoked
meats, and caramelized sugar. Pyrol¬
ysis of proteins produces other mutagenic
substances from amino acids.
In addition, large numbers of new
organic compounds have been synthe¬
sized, some of which have been found
carcinogenic. Many others have not
yet been tested.
organic compounds have been synthe¬
sized, some of which have been found
carcinogenic. Many others have not
yet been tested.
The Delaney Clause specifically re¬
fers to food additives. The principle of
the clause is praiseworthy, but it is
seldom invoked or enforced. Its exis¬
tence has focused attention on certain
food additives, while "nonadditive"
carcinogenic substances in food may
be ignored or given tolerances. There
is no rational basis for drawing regu¬
latory distinctions between various
carcinogens on the basis of whether
they are natural or man-made or
present advertently or inadvertently.
Furthermore, certain actual food sub¬
stances, such as saturated fats, are
now designated as carcinogens." En¬
vironmental carcinogens vary in
abundance and in potency; for exam¬
ple, aflatoxin B, may be 1 million
times as active as saccharin.20 A
comparative appraisal of carcinogens
is neededfers to food additives. The principle of
the clause is praiseworthy, but it is
seldom invoked or enforced. Its exis¬
tence has focused attention on certain
food additives, while "nonadditive"
carcinogenic substances in food may
be ignored or given tolerances. There
is no rational basis for drawing regu¬
latory distinctions between various
carcinogens on the basis of whether
they are natural or man-made or
present advertently or inadvertently.
Furthermore, certain actual food sub¬
stances, such as saturated fats, are
now designated as carcinogens." En¬
vironmental carcinogens vary in
abundance and in potency; for exam¬
ple, aflatoxin B, may be 1 million
times as active as saccharin.20 A
comparative appraisal of carcinogens
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BBQ Bandit
Babbling Farker
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2008
- Location
- Harrisbu...
There is a MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) PDF on Kingsford Briquettes available on Home depot's website:
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/d2/d2c8bee6-0a90-48dd-9959-580c905ac181.pdf
Under Section II of the MSDS sheet:
"Under normal consumer use situations, no medical conditions are known to be aggravated by exposure to this product."
Under Section III of the MSDS sheet refers to the carcinogenic properties of char wood.
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/d2/d2c8bee6-0a90-48dd-9959-580c905ac181.pdf
Under Section II of the MSDS sheet:
"Under normal consumer use situations, no medical conditions are known to be aggravated by exposure to this product."
Under Section III of the MSDS sheet refers to the carcinogenic properties of char wood.
So from that, and recognizing that is a partial of a no doubt more extensive paper, what I get is that any charred food can present a risk for cancer, but, although some evidence was linked to charcoal cooking, the actual curprit may well be the effect of high heat on high protein foods. That charcoal, while potentially playing a role in one study, the science would suggest it is not the charcoal per se, but, the effect of high heat acting as a catalyst to the creation of mutagenic substances. (sorry, Ninja Turtles just popped into my head)
Thanks for getting that info Triple T. It is compelling as a suggestion of further research but, it only suggests a link between charcoal, high heat cooking and carcinogenic elements being created. It would be likely the case similar compounds can be created in using high heat from infrared sources such as gas flame or electric reistance as well.
This ties into a little discussion I had a few years back with a couple of nutirtionists about the effect of heat on oils and fats and the nature of hydrogenated fats. Their contention, which had some scientific support, was that heat above 125F caused a breakdown in the covalent bonds of fat molecules in so-called "safe" oils resulting in olive oils, nut oils and rapeseed oils becoming hydrogenated with the risk of creating free radicals in the body. They were suggesting that cooking anything at high heat was eventually bad at both a cardiovascular as well as mutagenic level. And that if you must cook at higher heats (me) they suggested naturally saturated sources, preferably cold expeller pressed palm oil, rice oil or even tallow and lard at the lower end of the price spectrum.
Thanks for getting that info Triple T. It is compelling as a suggestion of further research but, it only suggests a link between charcoal, high heat cooking and carcinogenic elements being created. It would be likely the case similar compounds can be created in using high heat from infrared sources such as gas flame or electric reistance as well.
This ties into a little discussion I had a few years back with a couple of nutirtionists about the effect of heat on oils and fats and the nature of hydrogenated fats. Their contention, which had some scientific support, was that heat above 125F caused a breakdown in the covalent bonds of fat molecules in so-called "safe" oils resulting in olive oils, nut oils and rapeseed oils becoming hydrogenated with the risk of creating free radicals in the body. They were suggesting that cooking anything at high heat was eventually bad at both a cardiovascular as well as mutagenic level. And that if you must cook at higher heats (me) they suggested naturally saturated sources, preferably cold expeller pressed palm oil, rice oil or even tallow and lard at the lower end of the price spectrum.
J
jacksedona
Guest
if you marinade the meat and cook it quickly over the charcoal you reduce the chances of having the chemicals that cause cancer. i grill with charcoal but marinade everything and cut it thin. I am going to keep eating what I like. they say that sausage causes gi cancer -well ill still eat it but a iittle less.
http://www.thebarbecuemaster.net/healthy-bbq.html
http://www.thebarbecuemaster.net/healthy-bbq.html
Last edited by a moderator:
El Ropo
Quintessential Chatty Farker
Awww man, no more burnt toast! :flock:
