Better turn in your best...

[Okie Sawbones]

I have not seen that post yet on fb...will check it out. I have been cooking several years now...mainly PNWBA and the scoring has been fairly consistent. KCBS on the other hand has been a crap shoot from day one.

My wife took the PNWBA Judging Class this past weekend and came away very impressed with what she was taught...and she is hard to impress!

We are both taking the KCBS Judging Class this weekend in Coos Bay just to see what the hell they are teaching so we can try to be a little more consistent in our turn ins...

I'm certified with both associations. I do believe the training put on by the PNWBA was a little better than KCBS, but they both covered the basics.

The difference between a 7 and 9 is significant, so surely the cook must know that his/her burnt ends are not as good as the slices. Why would they put the burnt ends in the box if there was even a hint of discrepancy? A judge can only judge what is in the box.

I know I'm talking to the choir with you -- I've had your Q. :thumb: I'm just talking in general.

 

[BBQchef33]

I am done spending money on a lot of contests because of judging. KCBS is dragging g ass on fixing this lroblem. Wait until other teams completely quit because of it. Unfortunstely, all the bitching and complaining falls on deaf ears. Or on ears that don't want to hear it..

I'm one of those teams for this exact reason(and a few others).

Just ain't what it used to be. I'm putting my time and resources feeding veterans and sick kids instead of 6 judges.

 

[Porcine Perfection]

I am done spending money on a lot of contests because of judging. KCBS is dragging g ass on fixing this lroblem. Wait until other teams completely quit because of it. Unfortunstely, all the bitching and complaining falls on deaf ears. Or on ears that don't want to hear it..

I hope you cook better than you spell. :grin:

Like many things in life people will notice the bad before the good. If you put something in your box that isn't the best, expect it to be scored that way.

 

[bignburlyman]

I should probably just click past this thread without opening my mouth, just as I have on many of the other threads that eventually wind up bashing judges.

After typing my thoughts, I reconsidered what I was saying and decided to keep my mouth shut. Carry on.

 

[bradgreer]

Like so many other have stated, just make sure that you only put your best in the box and this becomes a non-issue. I just thought that it was a good topic to bring up to help us cooks improve.
I know that I had problems with this in my first contest where I made the bad decision on my pork box to put in meat that was way overdone and mushy just because I had a set idea or plan how my box was supposed to be made. Hindsight being perfect, I learned that I made a mistake. That's how we improve I suppose.

 

[Cuda1965]

Purely out of curiosity, were you told that cooks spend a lot of money? After that was it ever suggested that maybe they should be given the benefit of the doubt?

That's exactly what the Rep told us in the CBJ class I took a couple of years ago. (almost a direct quote =-))

 

[CBQ]

Purely out of curiosity, were you told that cooks spend a lot of money? After that was it ever suggested that maybe they should be given the benefit of the doubt?

One of the Facebook conversations went something along the lines of "Sure, cooks spend a lot of money, but you can win a lot of money. The judges spent money to get to contests with no chance of winning anything, so cooks should be more appreciative."

I doubt very much that any team outside of the top 10 in KCBS actually MAKES money at this, something I think some judges don't really understand.

Yea, that $50,000 prize pool looks impressive, but 70% of it went to the first two overall teams, and the guy in 9th place with his two top ten calls won $75.

 

[rob g]

I'm not sure how the amount of money a team spends on an event is relevant to how their meats should be scored. Bumping a score up with pity points also isn't fair to the guy that turned in a stellar piece of meat. Give them what you think they deserve and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Bob in Corona]

When the (averaged) score falls in the middle of 2 whole number scores, give the team the benefit of the higher whole number score.

As in BBQ, spending outrageous sums of money in Aviation does NOT guarantee a successful landing.

 

[JD McGee]

I'm not sure how the amount of money a team spends on an event is relevant to how their meats should be scored. Bumping a score up with pity points also isn't fair to the guy that turned in a stellar piece of meat. Give them what you think they deserve and let the chips fall where they may.

Bingo! :thumb: I know a LOT of judges personally(KCBS and PNWBA) and have had many conversations with them over the years. Everyone of them told me they judge the entries to the best of their ability according to the rules and teachings of the sanctioning body. The problem does not lie with the majority of judges...it lies with the folks doing the teaching and monitoring during events.
Well...there is that occasional ash-hat that goes into the tent with a closed mind looking for that one thing that they never find and almost always scores low... :mad2:

 

[Funtimebbq]

As table captains pass boxes around, they can see if there is more than 1 type of cut in the boxes. If KCBS truly wants judges to average their scores for the different cuts of meat in a box (if it is actually written or verbalized in the judges handbook and CD played prior to judging) there should be no issue with KCBS making sure table captains remind the judges to "average" their scores for taste and tenderness as the boxes are passed around. Again, only if that is the practice KCBS wants its judges to follow (worldwide). If there is no such language in the handbook or on the CD, then table captains should keep quiet and not impose their own values or opinions.

 

[Burnt at Both Endz]

I should probably just click past this thread without opening my mouth, just as I have on many of the other threads that eventually wind up bashing judges.

After typing my thoughts, I reconsidered what I was saying and decided to keep my mouth shut. Carry on.

It's not the middle of winter, you should be safe.....:biggrin1:

 

[Burnt at Both Endz]

Not too harsh. Like you said, control what you can. Hence, the appropriate title for the thread. But in a game of inches, it'd be nice to know that judges are at least on the same page when it comes to scoring those multiple presentation turn in boxes.

It might be inches for some, but when me and Jaestar get together it seems to be a game of thousands of a point....:twitch:

 

[Bob in Corona]

Funtime...
Table Captains do not instruct the CBJs at their table on Averaging. In fact, the specific word Average, and all derivations thereof, are not used since it could cause a confusion with the scoring value of "Average". AND neither do we impose our own values and/or opinions. This has been my experience as an active mcbj and active certified table captain.

You know what's worst than a pitmaster thinking that something is occurring when it is not... verbalizing his totally unfounded and totally incorrect concerns. Does nothing other than foster the them vs us attitude.

 

[Jorge]

Funtime...
Table Captains do not instruct the CBJs at their table on Averaging. In fact, the specific word Average, and all derivations thereof, are not used since it could cause a confusion with the scoring value of "Average". AND neither do we impose our own values and/or opinions. This has been my experience as an active mcbj and active certified table captain.

You know what's worst than a pitmaster thinking that something is occurring when it is not... verbalizing his totally unfounded and totally incorrect concerns. Does nothing other than foster the them vs us attitude.

You seem to have gotten something completely different out of that post than I did.

 

[DUBBAGA]

Woosah, Roscoe... Woosah

 

[Bob in Corona]

I might have been a little harsh. Being a CBJ also, Benny knows that such direction is to come for the Reps, not the Table Captains. Seeing as we both have judged some of same contests, he also knows we Table Captains try our level best to not inject corrupted, incorrect, and just plan false information when discussing anything with our assigned tables.

 

[enasnidx]

Funtime...
Table Captains do not instruct the CBJs at their table on Averaging. In fact, the specific word Average, and all derivations thereof, are not used since it could cause a confusion with the scoring value of "Average". AND neither do we impose our own values and/or opinions. This has been my experience as an active mcbj and active certified table captain.

You know what's worst than a pitmaster thinking that something is occurring when it is not... verbalizing his totally unfounded and totally incorrect concerns. Does nothing other than foster the them vs us attitude.

I think you misinterpreted that post. He was making the same point that you were: that judges and captains don't impose their opinions on others. Because until the KBCS decides to put "averages" in the language of the regulations, you're not supposed to tell judges to do it.

...I don't think Funtime's post was a case of them vs. us...

You know what's worst than a table captain thinking that something is occurring when it is not... verbalizing his totally unfounded and totally incorrect concerns. Does nothing other than foster the them vs us attitude.

Lol! Just kidding, but I had to say it. :becky:
It was probably a misunderstanding on your part.

 

[Funtimebbq]

I agree Bob, unless KCBS wants table captains to say anything, nothing should be said. But if we want judging to be consistent worldwide some language needs to be inserted and verbalized by KCBS on how to address different cuts of meat being sampled. Whatever that language is, it needs to be noted at all contests and not left to the individual Reps. or judging instructors. I realize judges are going to have different values and there will always be high/low scores. Cooks have to live with that (or get out of the game). I also think all judges can tell the difference between what is average bbq for scoring and averaging (maybe use the word balancing instead) their score between two or more individual cuts.

I'll see you in Norco my friend.

 

[big matt]

I believe the problem lies with some judges that have been judging for a long time who then in turn give advice and try to "educate" the new guys..I know for FACT there are a few judges here in Ca that always give 9's on appearance regardless of what's in the box..there is also another who squeezes chicken between the fingers to check for "tenderness"..these are the type of things that make cooks shake their heads and get upset at the whole process..it's the judges that judge by their own rules that hurt the good ones that actually judge by the stated rules..and btw the two I mention above one is a mcbj and the other is almost one..it's crazy to think how many contests they have skewed by their own judging standards