2 in Appearance

[EMTTLC]

Kcbs does not allow the table captain to "confront" the judge. He is to take his concern to the Rep who has the authority to remove a judge for any reason he sees fit. The simple truth on this entry is that the judge contradicted himself. His scoring indicates that he felt the food looked inedible, but then scored it as excellent in taste. The rep shoud have questioned the appearance score and alloed him to change it and then kept a close eye on the judge. If there was a repeat in any other category, the judge should have been removed. I've only seen one judge removed, but it was handled professionally and the judge in question was doing a very poor job.

 

[jcog44]

I no longer sit at the end of the table, because you get the last sample in the box half the time, and I have seen some sorry looking last samples However, I can't imagine what a 2 in appearance would look like, other than charcoal, maggots, or blood. In either case, I can't imagine someone tasting such nasty stuff. I got some rotten pork once (you could smell it on the plate), and called over the rep to show him that it was indeed inedible (btw, half the table got rotten pork, the other half didn't... go figure). This situation looks a 7 was picked up as a 2, and it was blown off. If so, its just plain wrong, by all involved. You guys work too hard, and I drive too far to have something like this happen. Also, I really hate it when I hear that it really doesn't matter because it's thrown out anyway. I have heard this from both judges and cooks. In a tie-breaker, the thrown out scores are the first tie breaker and can cost you cooks a lot of money. Sorry for the rant, but the cooks and judges have to look out for each other, and call out who ever is wrong.

 

[Crash]

That 2 on appearance seems really weird, super rare to see that. I'm on the typo bandwagon.

 

[ShencoSmoke]

Could it have been a hair or something else that only one judge noticed?

 

[Smoke'n Ice]

Everyone is saying the low score is thrown out so "no harm, no foul"!! This is not entirely true.

If it were truly a typo and was a '7', then the weighted score would have been 33.7372 which would have made it the 4th highest score and would have changed the results by 1.1772. So instead of getting a 172.0000 in the category, he would have gotten a 173.1772 which in a KCBS contest is a large number and can really change the results.

If it happened on site and was taken care of on site, then the "no harm no foul" attitude would have been correct, but now, the office must take care of the mistake, if there was one, and there is great confidence that it will be handled expeditiously and fairly for all parties concerned, NOT.

 

[rookiedad]

Apologies if I offended. 2000 posts and in the Comp forum I made an assumption. The question wasn't if the 2 was thrown out (yes it was) or if it was justified or not (it obviously wasn't). The question is if the process worked. Some say it's thrown out and the system worked so move on. I clearly posted because I do not agree. I don't think the system worked in this instance. A glaring issue was brushed under the rug. There is no exaggeration here. This is exactly what happened.

Do nothing? Give the TC the ability to act? Let it fly and address the judge afterwards?

i know what you are saying, but i think the dropping of the lowest score was implemented to deal with just such siduations and that is exactly what it did. this is not to my knowledge a widespread problem that would require more than what is already in place to account for it. now if he got two 2's...then we got problems.

 

[bignburlyman]

Comment card should have been issued. Fail by the judge and table captain

Fail by the judge, agree, but the table captain can only ask the judge to complete a comment card, they can not insist on a comment card. I have asked judges with a low score in the past if they would fill out a comment card and the answer was NO, not much else I was able to do or say.

I think judges are getting better at using comment cards, I table captained a contest Saturday that my table gave at least 2 comment cards in every category. And one rib turn in that was ugly got 4 of the 6 judges comment cards. And a couple of the comment cards were for good turn in's.

 

[Scottie]

I talked to him after awards and told him to insist that the reps to audit. He said he had talked we it them, but I would have pushed harder and I said he should see the card. Good reps, so I am not slamming them at all. Peace of mind is what I would be looking for.

 

[TheJackal]

Thanks, Scottie. When they said they were set up next to you I was comfortable that they had a neighbor that would help them out if/when needed. It was their first contest and were happy with their overall better than expected results (2 calls!). Being the new guys they were not comfortable pushing it any further.

 

[Jorge]

Could it have been a hair or something else that only one judge noticed?

Let's hope not. In that case it should have been brought to the attention of a TC, who would then summon a Rep, and a DQ for a foreign object would be the correct procedure.

 

[Burnt at Both Endz]

I talked to him after awards and told him to insist that the reps to audit. He said he had talked we it them, but I would have pushed harder and I said he should see the card. Good reps, so I am not slamming them at all. Peace of mind is what I would be looking for.

Exactly the way a cook should handle the situation. Good reps will show you the score card after the contest. You can also contact KCBS to have a copy of the score card sent to you.

A judge can't, for any reason, change his score after it's been recorded. That is unless there is a DQ that the rep then instructs the judges to do so.

 

[bbqnjm]

Let's hope not. In that case it should have been brought to the attention of a TC, who would then summon a Rep, and a DQ for a foreign object would be the correct procedure.

sorry- hair in a entry is not considered a foreign object- and is NOT a DQ

7.3 Hair on Entry
Question: What should I do if a hair is on an entry and no CBJ will sample it?

Opinion: As we know, a hair is not a DQ as we do not know if the hair came from the cook, table captain, a judge at the table, or such. When a hair is found, the table captain should note how many samples remain and, if the effected piece is needed, ask if there is a judge that is willing to remove it, eat around it and score it fairly. Should no one volunteer, the table captain is to divide a sample so all judges can score fairly. If the sample cannot be divided, the table captain, or a willing alternate judge, is to score the entry.
September 10, 2008

 

[Jorge]

sorry- hair in a entry is not considered a foreign object- and is NOT a DQ

7.3 Hair on Entry
Question: What should I do if a hair is on an entry and no CBJ will sample it?

Opinion: As we know, a hair is not a DQ as we do not know if the hair came from the cook, table captain, a judge at the table, or such. When a hair is found, the table captain should note how many samples remain and, if the effected piece is needed, ask if there is a judge that is willing to remove it, eat around it and score it fairly. Should no one volunteer, the table captain is to divide a sample so all judges can score fairly. If the sample cannot be divided, the table captain, or a willing alternate judge, is to score the entry.
September 10, 2008

You are correct. My morning coffee hadn't kicked in yet.

 

[Slamdunkpro]

I no longer sit at the end of the table, because you get the last sample in the box half the time, and I have seen some sorry looking last samples

Appearance is scored prior to judges taking samples so that shouldn't matter.

I can't imagine a 2 in appearance unless the sample is still moving :wacko:

 

[ShencoSmoke]

sorry- hair in a entry is not considered a foreign object- and is NOT a DQ

7.3 Hair on Entry
Question: What should I do if a hair is on an entry and no CBJ will sample it?

Opinion: As we know, a hair is not a DQ as we do not know if the hair came from the cook, table captain, a judge at the table, or such. When a hair is found, the table captain should note how many samples remain and, if the effected piece is needed, ask if there is a judge that is willing to remove it, eat around it and score it fairly. Should no one volunteer, the table captain is to divide a sample so all judges can score fairly. If the sample cannot be divided, the table captain, or a willing alternate judge, is to score the entry.
September 10, 2008

That is the only possible scenario I could think of. The low scoring judge sees a hair when judging appearance and decides it is inedible because of the hair. When the box gets passed around another judge gets the piece with the hair (and doesn't notice it) and the low scoring judge gets a good piece and judges taste and tenderness accordingly. Regardless of what happened, a comment card should have been provided.

 

[mobow]

The part of the Rep asking the table captain if that was correct and the table captain asking the judge does not make sense. It would be the reps responsibility to talk to the judge. I think it was a typo that was brought to the attention after awards and rather than hassle with all that would come after awards are already given out it was easier to blame the judge. I would ask KCBS for a copy of your card. Judges get a bad enough rap. Lets make sure it is deserved. Keith

 

[Rich Parker]

Rich, this was at your contest. Congrats on the 708!!!

Thanks, I remember someone saying you can email KCBS and get a copy of the judges card. With all the different people in place it's extremely likely it is a typo. I got a 2 in tenderness in chicken on my first GC a few years ago. :drama:

BTW - I picked the BBQ Sherpe in the BBQ fantasy draft, so I had faith in him!

 

[Scottie]

See Rich. I told you the scoring was all screwed up. You got all of their points!!

 

[Podge]

A 2 in appearance but 9 in taste, so obviously it wasn't inedible. Had to be a typo and the Rep and TC didn't want to bother with it.

I agree.. Lazy.. 15-30 more seconds is all that was needed for a discussion to get to the bottom of it, for a team who spent hundreds of dollars to compete there. (I am potentially making some wild accusations here, but I'll put $5 on it). Another reason why to make comment cards mandatory when there is a score below a certain threshold.

Hard to get a 9 in taste in something if it looked like a turd to begin with..

 

[Ron_L]

Thanks, I remember someone saying you can email KCBS and get a copy of the judges card. With all the different people in place it's extremely likely it is a typo. I got a 2 in tenderness in chicken on my first GC a few years ago. :drama:

BTW - I picked the BBQ Sherpe in the BBQ fantasy draft, so I had faith in him!

Just call the office. They faxed cards over to us in the past when we had an issue.