BBQ Craze Dying Down???

[Okie Sawbones]

I do believe that KCBS needs to work out some problems. I do believe that IBCA needs to work out some problems. There were 8 IBCA comps in Arkansas last year. There is maybe one this year, but I'm not sure of that one either.

I'd like to know from a cook's perspective why they would enter an IBCA contest, when IBCA has no certified judges? There is enough bitching about KCBS certified judges, but to enter a contest where they pull Joe Blow off of the street? Makes no sense to me.

 

[Jorge]

I'd like to know from a cook's perspective why they would enter an IBCA contest, when IBCA has no certified judges? There is enough bitching about KCBS certified judges, but to enter a contest where they pull Joe Blow off of the street? Makes no sense to me.

For the same reason I say that you can have a contest without CBJs, but you can't have one without cooks. Judges off the street in IBCA seem to get it right without having to attend a class.

EDIT: I should have said that IBCA judges, off the street, seem to get it right no less often than CBJs.

 

[BBQchef33]

This is my humble opinion on this.. from MY perspective.. may or may not be part of the trend.. But ive found something better to do with time and resources.. After competing for 12 years, yes, i became burned out, disillusioned by KCBS and BBQ Politics and grew more and more frustrated.. so I've pretty much decided to officially retire from Competition BBQ. My list of reasons;

1 - BBQ comps changed too much since 2004. When I was starting out, most folks were setting up 10x10 ezups in a 10x20 spot and sleeping in their trucks. At 11Pm there were parties in the tents, folks wandering around socializing till all hours of the morning and many were up al night stoking the stick burners. In the past few years, more and more folks have been holed up in their RVs and toy haulers watching tv and asleep by midnight while the gurus and computers controlled the flame so they are bright eyed and bushy tailed at 5am for ribs and chicken. As prize pools grew, the game got more and more serious.

2 - Expectations to stay competitive. The days of the 20$ briskets are gone. Our goal back then was take the crappiest piece of $.99/lb meat and thru skills and techniques and recipes, turn out something awesome.. Now, with some of the $160 briskets, you can slap it on the hot asphalt for a few hours and it will still come out respectable. Its hard for a pro, even with a little luck thrown in, to have judge score his or her select/choice brisket better than snake rivers golds, regardless of who cooked it. Its even harder for the new competitor to swallow the fact that he has a chance going against the seasoned veteran who is using high end meats. Its possible, but will need some devine intervention.

Then add in the judges 'expectations'.. Rewind to early days.. pre 2007..I used to turn in slightly trimmed, never scraped chicken. It looked like chicken.. oddly shaped triangles, marinaded, rubbed, sauced.. but it looked like a piece of chicken. Not a chicken Pillow, not a Muffin, not a cupcake, but a weird pile of 6 oddly shaped chicken thighs where the only common denominator between the 6 was.. chicken.. and ya know what, i would place in top 3 regularly and appearance scores were always up there.. try that now.. and your appearance score will likely suffer. Not all judges, but there are judges with predetermined expectations.. it just can not be denied. Ive encountered them, and argued the point with them until im blue in the face. The problem likely stemmed from not having a judging class around here in probably 10 years. Theres been no progress.. many have become stuck in their ways, and changes in rules have not always trickled down. Refreshers are desperately needed.

Also, The BBQ Politics. Thru several chains of events, I simply lost faith in KCBS and other governing BBQ bodies. But thats just my personal gripe.


Costs vs return. Biggest reason.. As stated above, costs can be expensive.. for me,. over $1000 to pull out of my driveway. Start with $300 for entry fees, 500-600 for meats and supplies, then add in $100 for groceries, then fuel costs, then supplies, then hotel, ferry, etc.. it adds up and by the time the weekend is over, close to $1500 if not more.....poof... gone.

and my trips to the American royal.. THOUSANDS!.. entry fee $1000, FUEL for 1600 miles one way...supplies, hotels, top end meats, Holy crap.. $4000 Plus.. 5 years running..!!! and 3 times to The Jack a month later.. thats $6-7000 for one month of American royal and The Jack.

for what?? To deal with a week of preparation, then 3 days of stress, and huge expenses... All this to feed 6 judges who will critique our efforts??

I began to ask myself....

WHY? :doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:



For the cost of one contest..$1500??? DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY VETERANS WE WILL FEED FOR $1500? :thumb:

Last weekend, for $500. We fed 120 veterans... burgers, dogs, pulled pork sammies, BBQ Chicken, 2 sides, desserts. And not one of them gave me a 6 because the pork was over/under sauced.. to firm, or salty, or hot, or mushy... not one.. all we got was a smiling face and a thank you.. and we gave back to those who risked themselves for us.

Next month, another 100-150 vets.. BBQ Lunch.. $500

August 26.. All day BBQ 1200 Veterans at a local VA Hospital.. $5000..

Thanksgiving? 12 course meal for 50 veteran families.. and 25 families undergoing cancer treatments.

Christmas?/ Full Christmas meals for 10 veteran families..

We are working on having one veteran event a month thru to November..

So, that $$$ that I used to spend on judges and comps, and fuel, and $160 briskets??? i now put towards our veteran events. The cost of ONE Awaygu Brisket will buy 160 lbs of chicken.. or 130 lbs of pork for our vets.

THATS WHY I GAVE UP COMPETING.. Our slogan for competitions is 'Fear the Pig'... thats what my banner said....

Now it says..
'BBQ Brethren Outreach.. Serving Those Who Served Us.'

There it is.. MY reason for bailing out of Competition BBQ. Not sure if youve seen this video below,.. but the time and resources of MANY BBQ Brethren Judges and backyarders and former or current teams are now doing this.... This was our signature event last year. With the Statue of Liberty and the Freeedom Tower as our backdrop. We took over the Brooklyn Navt yard parking lot and 75 BBQ Brethren members cooked for and served 1200-1500 sailors, marines and guardsman off 2 Navy Destroyers and a Coast Guard Cutter.

We were all teams and judges there.. but not to compete.. but to serve.. Once I got this involved with our troops, I never looked back.. To see our guests of honor arrive on 2 warships and a Cutter.. Never more proud of this group.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li4CE8aHo3Q"]BBQ Brethren BD346F8D B2E0 4EE9 AB04 36E2EC5C7EA4 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[erichasaces]

I'd like to know from a cook's perspective why they would enter an IBCA contest, when IBCA has no certified judges? There is enough bitching about KCBS certified judges, but to enter a contest where they pull Joe Blow off of the street? Makes no sense to me.

I can't speak for everyone, but the crowd I run with only competes in the occasional ibca contest because there aren't enough kcbs contests in Texas. I've done 6 kcbs contests this year, and I'll be doing my 3rd ibca this weekend.

 

[Qbert60]

My 2 cents worth. I have the same mentality the Candy Sue was saying. I am a 1 man team and i do everything myself (to most extent) This is my 5th year. Last year, counting the Jack and the Royal, I cooked 13 comps. I was and still am pooped! I did a non-sanctioned competition this weekend at a local brewery. My 4 year doing it. For some reason, I just wasn't excited. I was kinda dreading it.

Can a great team/cook turn in commodity meats and win? I would love to see that. I understand getting the chicken, ribs, and butts from the local Wal-Mart (as some top teams do) but you don't see those tops teams get back to basics and cook a choice or even a Prime from Costco.

Michigan BBQ has had contests come and go. There ar 2 right now that are over 5 years running. but when some teams elect to go elsewhere due to prize pool and chose not to support their home state. Something is wrong. Really wrong. Work to make contests better and not shun them due to a bad experience.

Not sure where I was going, but 3 KCBS comps is all I plan on doing and i am OK with that.

 

[GrillBillie_D]

I think you are spot on BBQchef33! The game has certainly changed. I spent 20+ years working in local dirt track auto racing. It's been through the same things competition BBQ is going through. In the 90's, local auto racing was hugely popular. Then as times changed and the sport didn't adapt, it has faded away. Sure it still exists but not as popular as a whole with just a few examples of where it still thrives. I see competition BBQ headed in the same direction. The reality is when you have some guys (or gals) who are willing to spend $5,000 to win $1,000, then the smaller guys who want to try to win $1,000 while spending $500, you will push out the smaller guy over time.

I'm glad to see you taking your passion for BBQ and doing something for those certainly deserve it. Much props!

 

[SDAR]

I'd like to know from a cook's perspective why they would enter an IBCA contest, when IBCA has no certified judges? There is enough bitching about KCBS certified judges, but to enter a contest where they pull Joe Blow off of the street? Makes no sense to me.

I like the progressive tables. At a large IBCA contest, up to 30 judges determine the winner instead of six sided dice.

 

[pharp]

If have often thought the exact opposite. I am not really suggesting or promoting change, I show up and do as many KCBS contests as I can afford and have a great time. But after my second contest I realized I wasn't really trying to cook great BBQ, I was trying to cook what judges were expecting. The guys that win a lot are great cooks and would turn out great BBQ regardless of the rules or judges. That being said, having judges "off the street" would eliminate the consistency of expectation and allow for some creativity on the part of the cooks. I have just accepted that I am cooking to a rubric (not very well a lot of times). I would argue that a contest organized in a way that allowed for more judges to sample each entry and the only requirement to be a judge was a signed statement that they "liked eating BBQ" would be a great indicator of who turned in the best BBQ on that given day.

I'd like to know from a cook's perspective why they would enter an IBCA contest, when IBCA has no certified judges? There is enough bitching about KCBS certified judges, but to enter a contest where they pull Joe Blow off of the street? Makes no sense to me.

 

[Okie Sawbones]

For the same reason I say that you can have a contest without CBJs, but you can't have one without cooks. Judges off the street in IBCA seem to get it right without having to attend a class.

EDIT: I should have said that IBCA judges, off the street, seem to get it right no less often than CBJs.

I would disagree, but then I don't do IBCA judgings just for that reason. There is a difference between eaters and judges.

 

[Okie Sawbones]

for what?? To deal with a week of preparation, then 3 days of stress, and huge expenses... All this to feed 6 judges who will critique our efforts??

I began to ask myself....

WHY? :doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:

First off, no one 'feeds' a judge. Some entries are painful. If I want to feed myself good Q, I cook it myself.

Secondly, who would you have critique your efforts? The local sanitation worker? Honest question.

Judge bashing is counterproductive. Trying to improve judging criteria is productive.

 

[Jorge]

I would disagree, but then I don't do IBCA judgings just for that reason. There is a difference between eaters and judges.

The cream seems to consistently rise regardless of who is seated.

 

[BBQchef33]

First off, no one 'feeds' a judge. Some entries are painful. If I want to feed myself good Q, I cook it myself.

Secondly, who would you have critique your efforts? The local sanitation worker? Honest question.

Judge bashing is counterproductive. Trying to improve judging criteria is productive.

You obviously missed my entire point. This post was not about judging and I was not judge bashing in any way, shape or form. In fact, the act of judging in the context of the post is irrelevant. Would you prefer I just said 'cook for 6 judges'? Whatever.. say it however you want.. it's simple symantecs and has no bearing on the point of the post.

At this stage of my BBQ journey.. who would I have judge? No one..I'm done competing. I burned out and found better use of my resources. Your op asked if we think comp BBQ has jumped the shark.. I gave my answer from my perspective as why there's one less team signing up.


Btw... forgot to mention is prev posts..Contests around here have seen a decline in sign ups for the past 2-3 years.

 

[Rusty Kettle]

First off, no one 'feeds' a judge. Some entries are painful. If I want to feed myself good Q, I cook it myself.

Secondly, who would you have critique your efforts? The local sanitation worker? Honest question.

Judge bashing is counterproductive. Trying to improve judging criteria is productive.

that comment about a sanitation worker is bull ****. My wife is a sanitation worker in a food plant. So yeah I absolutely would trust a sanitation worker to judge my food. That's ignorant and elitist to assume because some one works in sanitation they can't possibly know good food. Thing is she could easily out cook you any day of the week.
Probably another reason people don't bother with this **** anymore that holier than though attitude kind of wrecks the fun... Why the hell should we bust our ass to cook for you to come in with the attitude you have. If you want good Q you would cook it yourself? Well then don't let the door hit you where the good Lord split you. No sense eating ****. Go cook for yourself then.
You want to insult people like my wife and friends and then you Got the nerve to insult everyone else's cooking... Piss off you stuck up old man and take your cooler with you.

 

[lcbateman3]

Phil,

The reasons you listed are the same reasons my wife and I stopped competing. There are much better ways I can use the few thousand dollars a year I competed with. Veterans and other outreach projects are what we are focusing on. In this area, it seems if you don't do 15-20 comps a year you will not be able to compete. I'm sorry, I don't have an extra 15-25k a year to do them. I still like my backyard, small competitions and I will do them from time to time. But other than that, my money is going to others in need.

 

[Eggspert]

One little comment pertaining to judges. I believe that most KCBS judges are very passionate about what they do. I think a lot of them are there to do the best job they know how. Unfortunately, when you are passionate about something you start to seek information about it and I think a lot of information they have found does not follow the KCBS guidelines. All of the BBQ pit masters tv show, internet judge my box, information passed at the judging table is clouding their judgement about completing the task at hand. The judge is there to judge what is in front of him, not compare it to other entries or what he/she expects to be there. A judge should judge appearance according to the golden rule, "does it look like food I want to eat". BBQ was never intended to be perfect and uniform and lined up like chicken nuggets in a take out box. The judge is there to judge excellent BBQ, not perfection. For that reason I prefer judges off the street or noobs, for that reason to master judges. They don't have all the wrong information to cloud their judgement. They look at the food with an open mind and think, "damn that looks good!" 9. "Damn that pork tasted good, I like that hint of apple in there," 9. "Nothing wrong with the texture, just good meat." 9. That being said, it's already a game of inches. We are all turning in meat that is so good. I do wish more master judges would enter the judging table as a new set of eyes and taste buds and forget everything they think they know. It really doesn't make you any better of a judge to have judged more contests, because you are more likely to expect and compare. Stepping off the soapbox.

That being said, if you don't want to worry about the judges scores.... cook better so they have no choice but to give you 9's. That is really the name of the game. Cooks need to spend more time cooking better and giving even a crabby master judge comparing your food to some piece of chicken they had in 1985 no chance of giving you anything but a 9. If you want to prove you are the best, cook better and stop blaming judges. Take responsibility for the crap you turn in. We are not in an everybody gets a ribbon sport.

Eggspert

 

[Ron_L]

Mod note:

Let's settle down and stop the name calling!

 

[ThomEmery]

This is my humble opinion on this.. from MY perspective.. may or may not be part of the trend.. But ive found something better to do with time and resources.. After competing for 12 years, yes, i became burned out, disillusioned by KCBS and BBQ Politics and grew more and more frustrated.. so I've pretty much decided to officially retire from Competition BBQ. My list of reasons;

1 - BBQ comps changed too much since 2004. When I was starting out, most folks were setting up 10x10 ezups in a 10x20 spot and sleeping in their trucks. At 11Pm there were parties in the tents, folks wandering around socializing till all hours of the morning and many were up al night stoking the stick burners. In the past few years, more and more folks have been holed up in their RVs and toy haulers watching tv and asleep by midnight while the gurus and computers controlled the flame so they are bright eyed and bushy tailed at 5am for ribs and chicken. As prize pools grew, the game got more and more serious.

2 - Expectations to stay competitive. The days of the 20$ briskets are gone. Our goal back then was take the crappiest piece of $.99/lb meat and thru skills and techniques and recipes, turn out something awesome.. Now, with some of the $160 briskets, you can slap it on the hot asphalt for a few hours and it will still come out respectable. Its hard for a pro, even with a little luck thrown in, to have judge score his or her select/choice brisket better than snake rivers golds, regardless of who cooked it. Its even harder for the new competitor to swallow the fact that he has a chance going against the seasoned veteran who is using high end meats. Its possible, but will need some devine intervention.

Then add in the judges 'expectations'.. Rewind to early days.. pre 2007..I used to turn in slightly trimmed, never scraped chicken. It looked like chicken.. oddly shaped triangles, marinaded, rubbed, sauced.. but it looked like a piece of chicken. Not a chicken Pillow, not a Muffin, not a cupcake, but a weird pile of 6 oddly shaped chicken thighs where the only common denominator between the 6 was.. chicken.. and ya know what, i would place in top 3 regularly and appearance scores were always up there.. try that now.. and your appearance score will likely suffer. Not all judges, but there are judges with predetermined expectations.. it just can not be denied. Ive encountered them, and argued the point with them until im blue in the face. The problem likely stemmed from not having a judging class around here in probably 10 years. Theres been no progress.. many have become stuck in their ways, and changes in rules have not always trickled down. Refreshers are desperately needed.

Also, The BBQ Politics. Thru several chains of events, I simply lost faith in KCBS and other governing BBQ bodies. But thats just my personal gripe.


Costs vs return. Biggest reason.. As stated above, costs can be expensive.. for me,. over $1000 to pull out of my driveway. Start with $300 for entry fees, 500-600 for meats and supplies, then add in $100 for groceries, then fuel costs, then supplies, then hotel, ferry, etc.. it adds up and by the time the weekend is over, close to $1500 if not more.....poof... gone.

and my trips to the American royal.. THOUSANDS!.. entry fee $1000, FUEL for 1600 miles one way...supplies, hotels, top end meats, Holy crap.. $4000 Plus.. 5 years running..!!! and 3 times to The Jack a month later.. thats $6-7000 for one month of American royal and The Jack.

for what?? To deal with a week of preparation, then 3 days of stress, and huge expenses... All this to feed 6 judges who will critique our efforts??

I began to ask myself....

WHY? :doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:



For the cost of one contest..$1500??? DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY VETERANS WE WILL FEED FOR $1500? :thumb:

Last weekend, for $500. We fed 120 veterans... burgers, dogs, pulled pork sammies, BBQ Chicken, 2 sides, desserts. And not one of them gave me a 6 because the pork was over/under sauced.. to firm, or salty, or hot, or mushy... not one.. all we got was a smiling face and a thank you.. and we gave back to those who risked themselves for us.

Next month, another 100-150 vets.. BBQ Lunch.. $500

August 26.. All day BBQ 1200 Veterans at a local VA Hospital.. $5000..

Thanksgiving? 12 course meal for 50 veteran families.. and 25 families undergoing cancer treatments.

Christmas?/ Full Christmas meals for 10 veteran families..

We are working on having one veteran event a month thru to November..

So, that $$$ that I used to spend on judges and comps, and fuel, and $160 briskets??? i now put towards our veteran events. The cost of ONE Awaygu Brisket will buy 160 lbs of chicken.. or 130 lbs of pork for our vets.

THATS WHY I GAVE UP COMPETING.. Our slogan for competitions is 'Fear the Pig'... thats what my banner said....

Now it says..
'BBQ Brethren Outreach.. Serving Those Who Served Us.'

There it is.. MY reason for bailing out of Competition BBQ. Not sure if youve seen this video below,.. but the time and resources of MANY BBQ Brethren Judges and backyarders and former or current teams are now doing this.... This was our signature event last year. With the Statue of Liberty and the Freeedom Tower as our backdrop. We took over the Brooklyn Navt yard parking lot and 75 BBQ Brethren members cooked for and served 1200-1500 sailors, marines and guardsman off 2 Navy Destroyers and a Coast Guard Cutter.

We were all teams and judges there.. but not to compete.. but to serve.. Once I got this involved with our troops, I never looked back.. To see our guests of honor arrive on 2 warships and a Cutter.. Never more proud of this group.

BBQ Brethren BD346F8D B2E0 4EE9 AB04 36E2EC5C7EA4 - YouTube

For me its been cooking for those in need.
Ill cook one or two contest a year still
But feeding 400 ppl who are hungry
Is very rewarding

 

[PatAttack]

that comment about a sanitation worker is bull ****. My wife is a sanitation worker in a food plant. So yeah I absolutely would trust a sanitation worker to judge my food. That's ignorant and elitist to assume because some one works in sanitation they can't possibly know good food. Thing is she could easily out cook you any day of the week.
Probably another reason people don't bother with this **** anymore that holier than though attitude kind of wrecks the fun... Why the hell should we bust our ass to cook for you to come in with the attitude you have. If you want good Q you would cook it yourself? Well then don't let the door hit you where the good Lord split you. No sense eating ****. Go cook for yourself then.
You want to insult people like my wife and friends and then you Got the nerve to insult everyone else's cooking... Piss off you stuck up old man and take your cooler with you.

Tom, I'm pretty sure he wasn't singling out your wife or friends. How the hell would he know she works in sanitation??? Take a minute and relax, man.

No since in going after someone's throat for something typed on the internet.

Personal attacks are not necessary.

 

[Okie Sawbones]

that comment about a sanitation worker is bull ****. My wife is a sanitation worker in a food plant. So yeah I absolutely would trust a sanitation worker to judge my food. That's ignorant and elitist to assume because some one works in sanitation they can't possibly know good food. Thing is she could easily out cook you any day of the week.
Probably another reason people don't bother with this **** anymore that holier than though attitude kind of wrecks the fun... Why the hell should we bust our ass to cook for you to come in with the attitude you have. If you want good Q you would cook it yourself? Well then don't let the door hit you where the good Lord split you. No sense eating ****. Go cook for yourself then.
You want to insult people like my wife and friends and then you Got the nerve to insult everyone else's cooking... Piss off you stuck up old man and take your cooler with you.

Wow, nice tirade. I insulted no one. Everyone in America walks around on eggshells. Sorry, I don't play the PC game. If you see an insult, then you pulled it out of your arse. And yes, I do cook good Q. Have you ever judged a contest? If you have, you will see every mistake a cook can possibly make, and you will see some very good Q as well. Some you literally have to quietly spit out.

There is absolutely no need for your arrogant tirade in the Brethren forum. Grow up.

 

[Okie Sawbones]

Tom, I'm pretty sure he wasn't singling out your wife or friends. How the hell would he know she works in sanitation??? Take a minute and relax, man.

No since in going after someone's throat for something typed on the internet.

Personal attacks are not necessary.

Obviously you see the post for what it was meant to be. Too many people find offense these days in anything that you say. I won't play their silly PC games. That is one reason I like Trump. He drives the press crazy.

I could just as easily have said Vegans.