Thoughts on pulling whole chicken at 145?

COS · Apr 28, 2016

Ordering from thermoworks, I get there newsletter now. Just received one about pulling whole chicken with breast meat at 145. When you pull at 145 and hold there is kills all the Bacteria as cooking to 165.
Fwismoker, interesting about what they said about letting the chicken cook naturally, legs open. I wonder if this what you did with your non-trussed chicken cook. Made a device to hold the legs open and not flop around when you got it on the rotisserie.
Overall a good read I thought, below is the link.
http://www.thermoworks.com/blog/2016/04/thermal-tips-simple-roasted-chicken/

Fwismoker · Apr 28, 2016

For me as long as the legs and thighs are cooked to tender is what matters because when they are cooked well the breast is done/juicy. When the legs just want to pull right off is the best sign imo.

The non trussed chicken cook I used the new product I made... Actually the legs were a little open but I just liked that because it let them get good color vs being tied/held tight to the birds body.

As far as temperature goes I stick a probe in the deep part of the breast and when it's around 160 ish + or - it get's pulled, the legs/thighs are tender by then. (thighs will be in the 175* area by the time the breast reaches the 160 area)

16Adams · Apr 28, 2016

I cook chicken to 187. It works for us. Crispy skin, juicy meat. I cook it fat side down first. I flip when it does not stick to grate for grilling. When smoking I start offset breast down finish breast up. Again the lowest temp I want to see is 187. Always juicy well done no pink juices. I've seen read all the articles posted here about young chickens and red juice. I don't want to see it on my plate or plates I serve to guests. This is regardless of which cooker I use- 187

Bludawg · Apr 28, 2016

I look at chicken through the prism of Butts & Briskets: at 145* the chicken is under cooked IE not as tender as one that is cooked to 165. if you go past 165 to 175-180 or above the meat relaxes and becomes more tender and will be moist just like a butt or a brisket that has been cooked to probe tender.
Breast meat is Similar to a Pork Loin and the Leg quarters are similar to a Butt both of which are safe to eat at 145 but are even better when taken to a higher temps as they get more tender and moist. Remember those temps are USDA recommendations as to Safe To Eat not to be confused with cooked to perfection, if they where we would be cooking briskets & butts to 125-160 and think it was wonderful.

16Adams · Apr 28, 2016

Blu nailed it. Everyone seems to be in a hurry. Slow down. Have a beverage. Enjoy the smoke.

Fwismoker · Apr 28, 2016

People get confused on the 165 breast and 175* drum/thigh temp guidelines. The breast by the time it reaches temp in the deepest part the dark meat is much hotter and thus more tender by that time.

Now for parts only like thighs/drums I cook to 180-190

Ron_L · Apr 28, 2016

Here is a great article on cooking chicken breasts sous vide and the effect on temperature.

http://www.seriouseats.com/2015/07/the-food-lab-complete-guide-to-sous-vide-chicken-breast.html

Basically, chicken breast need to be at 145 for a little over 9 minutes for pasteurization to be complete. That's a bit hard to do in a smoker or grill since the internal will continue to rise since the ambient temp inside the smoker is above 145. If you have a way to hold it at 145, the results should be similar to sous vide.

I've tried chicken breasts at 145 and didn't like the texture. I prefer 150.

Here is a similar article for thighs...

http://www.seriouseats.com/2015/07/the-food-lab-complete-guide-to-sous-vide-chicken-thigh.html

I tried thighs at 150 and did not like the texture. I prefer thighs at 165 or maybe higher. Sous vide thighs at 165 for a longer period are great, but in a smoker they need to get to 175 - 185 to get the same texture.

Not really apples to apples, but still good info to keep in mind.

jwtseng · Apr 28, 2016

16Adams said:
Blu nailed it. Everyone seems to be in a hurry. Slow down. Have a beverage. Enjoy the smoke.

Just chillax...

Gore · Apr 28, 2016

Here is the oft-quoted post by knucklhed on chicken safe times. Yes, you can cook to 145*, but you'll want to hold it there for 10 minutes.

KnucklHed BBQ said:
Alrighty folks... 'setcher lil hearts at ease - Most of the USDA's "blah, blah, blah" is designed so the that the average burger flipper can remember it -

Let me ask this question though, would you consider chicken kept at 137 for an hour to be:
A) Lethal - WTH are you trying to do to me man????
B) Just right! Bring it on, I'm hungry fo' that!

FDA says... Good to go! What???? AYFKM???!!!! (Are you freaking kidding me??)

Now, I'm not saying that the taste & texture will be what you want, but - technically, safe.

From USDA.gov - pages 5 - 16: http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OPPDE/rdad/FSISNotices/RTE_Poultry_Tables.pdf

Times for given temperature, fat level, and species needed to obtain
7-log10 lethality of Salmonella*
------------------------------------ fat%=9 ------------------------------------
Temperature (
o
F) Time for Chicken Time for Turkey
136 74.8 min 67.6 min
137 59.7 min 55.3 min
138 47.7 min 45.4 min
139 38.3 min 37.3 min
140 30.8 min 30.8 min
141 24.9 min 25.5 min
142 20.1 min 21.1 min
143 16.3 min 17.4 min
144 13.2 min 14.4 min
145 10.7 min 11.9 min
146 8.6 min 9.8 min
147 6.9 min 8 min
148 5.5 min 6.5 min
149 4.3 min 5.2 min
150 3.3 min 4.1 min
151 2.5 min 3.2 min
152 1.8 min 2.4 min
153 1.4 min 1.9 min
154 1.1 min 1.5 min
155 51.4 sec 1.3 min
156 40.7 sec 1 min
157 32.2 sec 49.7 sec
158 25.4 sec 40.3 sec
159 20.1 sec 32.7 sec
160 15.9 sec 26.6 sec
161 12.6 sec 21.6 sec
162 10 sec 17.5 sec
163 <10.0 sec 14.2 sec
164 <10.0 sec 11.5 sec
165 <10.0 sec <10.0 sec

I will often cook chicken to 150*, especially the tenders, which are tender anyway ... maybe that's why they call them that. :doh: Breasts? Juicy, but a little tough.

Shagdog · Apr 28, 2016

Dang, gore beat me to it with the knucklehead chart :doh:

I gotta agree with what's been said, yes, you CAN cook to 145, but do you really want to? Personally I don't like the texture.

Fwismoker · Apr 28, 2016

Last comment... It's not about or shouldn't be about what is the earliest safe temp nor about "sitting and enjoying the smoke" All that is silliness, It should be about what gives the best tender meat, juiciness and skin. All of those things will depend on the method, grill/smoker used and if it's parts or whole bird. There is no one size fit's all temp.

m-fine · Apr 28, 2016

Fwismoker said:
Last comment... It's not about or shouldn't be about what is the earliest safe temp nor about "sitting and enjoying the smoke" All that is silliness, It should be about what gives the best tender meat, juiciness and skin. All of those things will depend on the method, grill/smoker used and if it's parts or whole bird. There is no one size fit's all temp.

Yep! There are the minimums for safety, but they don't have anything to do with quality. Going to a higher temp, and holding for a longer time at the target temp can give more palatable results.

DownHomeQue · Apr 28, 2016

I prefer going over on my chicken.. hell I go over on everything.. lol I like it done and then cooked tender.. I probly go over 180 still juicy though. I don't own a thermometer when I can twist the leg and it pop off easily and the bone is white or no red.. its done lol

IamMadMan · Apr 28, 2016

It may kill the bacteria, however i can tell you my guests wouldn't eat it if the juices didn't run clear.

Richard1233 · Apr 28, 2016

I always cook my breast to 155. It comes out perfect for my family. 145 I would be afraid is pushing it, i was a little hesitant to do 155 at first too but it made sense to me that it would rest and come up to 165 so that's why I tried it and I love it that way and so does my family.

Thatgrimguy · Apr 28, 2016

I pull my breasts at 145. The rise brings me up to the mid 150s and it's the perfect texture for my family. Extreme juicyness.

16Adams · Apr 28, 2016

Thatgrimguy said:
I pull my breasts at 145. The rise brings me up to the mid 150s and it's the perfect texture for my family. Extreme juicyness.

Is this boneless? I can actually see that. But the young fast growing chickens that are flash frozen with soft bones the joints- bones specially around joints seem to leak red forever. It's well explained in various searches, I'm just not fond of bloody knee joints painting my taters and peas red.

Decoy205 · Apr 28, 2016

I've cooked chicken until 180-190 in the thigh and sometimes I still get a "bloody" joint. Drives me nuts.

Fwismoker · Apr 28, 2016

There was a good article from thermoworks talking about the young birds bones/cartilage aren't developed and the blood leaches through...and although it's safe many restaurants will over cook bird/parts just so they don't get complaints.

Happy Hapgood · Apr 28, 2016

At least 165*F here for any bird. That is all.

Thoughts on pulling whole chicken at 145?

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