Chicken Safety - Pasteurisation - Myths

[JohnHB]

I think I need to make my purpose clear again. I am not suggesting at what temperature you want to cook chicken for your consumption - that is your personal choice.
What I object to is a bunch of the brethren that insist that chicken must be cooked at 165F+ to make it safe. One needs to pasteurise the chicken to make it safe and that can occur at lower temperatures (e.g. by holding it at 150F for say 5 minutes).
Why can't we all agree that chicken shouldn't be eaten unless it is cooked enough to pasteurise it!
John

 

[landarc]

I can agree to that. Then again, I ate it raw.

 

[Whistler]

At an internal temperature of 150F+ chicken isn't pink. It changes colour around 140F.
Let me be clear I don't care what temperature you like cooking your chicken to. You should cook it for your tastes. What I am saying is that once you have determined the internal temperature has been held at 150f for the required time to pasteurise you can stop worrying about the chicken safety. AND stop all the bull dust that it MUST hit 165F.
John

Maybe it's my old eyes but that first pic in the article looks pink to me. I think I complimented the interesting science of the article and I agree completely; "I don't care what temperature you like cooking your chicken to". Don't believe I commented on safety at all, my comment was what I'm able to successfully serve. Easy big fella, do what thrills ya' :biggrin1:

 

[CharredApron]

"The juices ran clear when carving" Let em rest and carve away!

 

[buccaneer]

Pink isn't the color of bacteria, it's the hue of myoglobin.

Toriwasa, which I have eaten quite a few times.

 

[CharredApron]

^^^What he said^^^

 

[Whistler]

Pink isn't the color of bacteria, it's the hue of myoglobin.

Toriwasa, which I have eaten quite a few times.

Still didn't say pink was bad and to each his own but break that out for the boys around the pit and they'll want to know when I'm going to cook it or put it on a hook. I'd try it but in the immortal words of "Ol Bob "it ain't bar-b-que". I'm still agreeing with you guys, not sure where we're crossing wires except all the science in the world won't convince most of my guests/customers to eat it. Is what it is I suppose and not trying to pick a fight, have fun I'm done. :tape:

 

[JohnHB]

 

[JohnHB]

 

[buccaneer]

You're only done when the juices run clear.
Get back in here.:wink:

 

[JohnHB]

I am still here with you Bucc !!!!

 

[JohnHB]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddweatherholtz
When it comes to chicken I just don't want to mess around. I get a few chefs here and there who want to sous vid but when it comes to my food safety class its 165. When it comes to health Dept restaurant inspections 165 is the only number sous vid or not. Also I believe all bbq associations require chicken cooked until 165 and held at 140.

Well what temperature do they require for beef both cooked & holding? If they (the chefs) are following the USDA it will require a cooked temperature of 145F AND I DO not WANT TO EAT IN THEIR RESTAURANTS!!!!

Well aren't you going to answer. You push USDA for chicken but will not respond on the USDA's view on beef. Probably because most of us and most restaurants cook beef at less than the USDA's recommendation of 145F!!!!!
Don't wimp out - come clean.
John

 

[buccaneer]

I love this place, the spirit and humor here.

 

[Smokey Mick]

Doods:doh:
Yall missing the pointy bit.
YOU can do this on BBQ and not have pink bits.

You can sous vide on your bbq yes indeedy.

If you have a bbq that can go from a searing 600F then be able to choke down to 150F within 30 minutes. You are there.

You can brown and hold for as long as you want.

An example, I get a BGE up to flames, Buzzard on indirect then lid down and start choking the fire.
First stage It will brown up ,,, Job done.
Next stage as the IT starts to rise I choke more to meet the desired IT temp.
Once I meet in the middle at 150 ish, I hold it there for as long as I want. Maybe an hour, maybe more and look Mom , No pink meat :caked:
Just pure white juicy meat.
Got to pick your cooks though as I Take my lump spit buzzard way beyond 165F as that's just the way I swing.:biggrin1: The Op is not chitting you, The technique is worth the knowing as it transcends to every other meat:wink:

 

[Whistler]

You're only done when the juices run clear.
Get back in here.:wink:

Ha! That was good :loco: My juices were already running clear, had to hit the sack. Will be thinking of this tomorrow night when I put the chickens on the pit, heck I might even dig out a thermometer.

 

[deguerre]

Well aren't you going to answer. You push USDA for chicken but will not respond on the USDA's view on beef. Probably because most of us and most restaurants cook beef at less than the USDA's recommendation of 145F!!!!!
Don't wimp out - come clean.
John

I'm not disagreeing with your premise John, because I do occasionally enjoy the blue rare steak - :mrgreen: - and I don't let my pork loin roasts go over 135 because they'll climb to 140. With chicken though I've got a psychological issue to deal with...:shock::wink:

 

[dwfisk]

JohnHB, thanks for the article & info and to everyone else thanks for the dialog. My take home (learned sumpin here) is that 165* ain't magic; once you get to/above the "red line" chicken is pasturized and safe to eat, no matter how you cook to get there. I have always cooked chicken until juices are clear and I get the texture-moisture-taste I like and really have not had any trouble getting all three at about 165* (i.e. not dry, not rubbery, not cardboard) but its good to know that getting to 165* is not essential from a food safety standpoint. Thanks again.

 

[ddweatherholtz]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddweatherholtz
When it comes to chicken I just don't want to mess around. I get a few chefs here and there who want to sous vid but when it comes to my food safety class its 165. When it comes to health Dept restaurant inspections 165 is the only number sous vid or not. Also I believe all bbq associations require chicken cooked until 165 and held at 140.

Well what temperature do they require for beef both cooked & holding? If they (the chefs) are following the USDA it will require a cooked temperature of 145F AND I DO not WANT TO EAT IN THEIR RESTAURANTS!!!!

Well aren't you going to answer. You push USDA for chicken but will not respond on the USDA's view on beef. Probably because most of us and most restaurants cook beef at less than the USDA's recommendation of 145F!!!!!
Don't wimp out - come clean.
John

145 for Beef and held at 140. Difference with beef is that the gamble is not as bad. eight out of 10 chickens were found to contain pathogens like salmonella and campylobacter. You can cook your food at what ever temp you want, it is like rolling dice! I prefer to stick with what will extend my life a bit and keep me off the toilet!!

 

[Bludawg]

I love a Rare and a Blu Steak but I will not eat a Pink Burger. With Beef the bacteria is on the outside of the meat sereing will kill it. However once you grind it the bacteria is all through it anything pink is a Crap shoot and can make you fire out of both ends simultaneously.
Domestically raised Pork is much the same since the eradication of Trichinosis in the US. If it is a Wild Pig you have to cook it well because they are still carriers.
Poultry carries Salmonella it don't die until it gets to 165 and it is carried in the tissues of the critter, it can prove fatal in the very young and the elderly among us.
Cooking and Holding indefinitely; Two of my Food Poisonings came from Chicken that was held in a Warmer over 4 hrs. So I aint buying that either.

 

[BeansBaxter]

Poultry carries Salmonella it don't die until it gets to 165...

The USDA tables show that for a worst case of 12% fat chicken you can achieve 7-log10 lethality of salmonella at a temperature as low as 136º F if held for 81.4 min.

At temperatures greater than 163º F the same 7-log10 lethality is instantaneous. In other words, time and temperature are both important variables.

More importantly, there is good science to prove that salmonella indeed will die at temperatures below 165º F

Cooking and Holding indefinitely; Two of my Food Poisonings came from Chicken that was held in a Warmer over 4 hrs. So I aint buying that either.

If the chicken was held at temperatures below ~130º F than that's not surprising. If the chicken was properly held at 140º F or higher than you probably need to look elsewhere for the culprit of your illness. As you can see on the chart linked above, 35 minutes at that temperature and you would have 7-log10 lethality of salmonella.

Of course, if the chicken wasn't prepared properly then holding it at a safe temperature isn't going to remedy the situation.