Well, OP, I hope you got the info you were looking for...because this guy just turned this in to a chit storm....
offset smoker choice
- Thread starter jeepaholic
- Start date
Well, OP, I hope you got the info you were looking for...because this guy just turned this in to a chit storm....
Not here to argue or be rude and go off the rails but that’s my opinion based off of over 100 hours testing my pit with and without food in it and cooking 25 separate briskets in the last 5 months. Franklin’s backyard pit definitely doesn’t draft as fast as the 1975 with the stack wide open - not saying his draft is inferior or worse, it’s probably set at the perfect airflow for that size pit. I referenced the Mad Scientist video because it’s visual proof, not to mention the specs dictate airflow. Franklins backyard pit is nothing like the 1,000 gallons at his restaurant. I like a pit that is closer to drafting like a 1,000 with a damper just like those pits too - every Texas bbq restaurant I’ve seen uses a stack damper on the bigger pits. (I updated my post to articulate that better). All I’m saying more options and settings are always better.
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Another important thing to mention is if I’m messing with stack damper there’s a greater risk I can mess up my food. For example, cooking with too much convection the entire cook = really crispy edges, not enough convection = poor rendering/over smoked, adjusting the damper/airflow will move the hotspot = potential for bottom burn if you don’t know where the hot spot moves to. It’s definitely more of a learning curve, but using those options to your advantage I believe results in better food on my pit.
The Franklin backyard doesn’t have those convection options with vented firebox door & no damper. My assumption is Franklin designed it to draft at a perfect convection setting for the majority of the cook to eliminate the risk of the potential cooking errors I described above, resulting in a user friendly, less tinkering, more consistent food product for the new Backyard cook. Many probably prefer that. There’s a ceiling though, with less convection options.
The Franklin backyard doesn’t have those convection options with vented firebox door & no damper. My assumption is Franklin designed it to draft at a perfect convection setting for the majority of the cook to eliminate the risk of the potential cooking errors I described above, resulting in a user friendly, less tinkering, more consistent food product for the new Backyard cook. Many probably prefer that. There’s a ceiling though, with less convection options.
Lynn Dollar
is Blowin Smoke!
jeepaholic
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 26, 2009
- Location
- Sin city
Thanks for all the information guys.
Connor_Macleod
Full Fledged Farker
OP: Check out SkaterSmoker's YouTube brisket videos (he is "smoke scouts" on YouTube if I recall). He knows what he is talking about when it comes to smoking a brisket.
Misterwaterfallin
MemberGot rid of the matchlight.
I think you nailed it. The Franklin was designed to make it as easy as possible to get a decent product, and hard as possible to mess up.
And to the people saying we're idiots for saying that the Franklin design can be improved for serious backyard guys, it's not like their cooking on the small Franklin pits at his restaurant.
Yea, Starring YOU
You took this completely polite, informational thread about offsets, one in which myself and others took interest in hearing the opinions of others, and turned it into the "I hate Jeremy Yoder Vendetta Show" and threw a fellow brethren under the bus.
Provide some useful and informational commentary to the discussion. You know, like some data to counterpoint his claims.
I think the whole world knows you don't like Jeremy Yoder. Fine, hate him all you want. Start your own damn thread in woodpile to profess your disdain of him for all I care. I will gladly join in polite discourse about that subject. Just stop tanking threads because someone mentions a name. It's getting really old, and as you can tell, I am getting quite tired of it.
sudsandswine
Quintessential Chatty Farker
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2012
- Location
- Kansas City
A lot of teeth gnashing and insult slinging from a member who, as best I can tell based on thread titles they make, never posts pictures of the food they cook. :twitch:
Also odd to admonish others for "singing the praises" of some random YouTuber or hot new BBQ joint while also....seeming to have quite a fixation on Aaron Franklin.
Imout.
Lynn Dollar
is Blowin Smoke!
I don't ever post pics of food, because I think its stupid. Its not important how the food looks, its how it tastes. And its boring.
And responding to those posts are merely a way of building post counts, ya know , the predictable " that looks delicious " , " you really nailed it " , " save some for me " , " I'lll be over after work " ............ please, after several years of that , it gets older than dirt.
I'm too busy preparing my food and eating my food than to take pictures for the internet. I could give a chit if anyone else see's it, or not. I'm not smoking a brisket every week so I can impress people on social media. If I smoke a brisket, its for my wife and I to eat.
Its all a waste of time.
Just like this thread.
And I'm not the one bringing up Aaron Franklin. He seems to be a magnet for catching flak.
Same way I don't bring up the charlatan Scientist guy.
Inthewoods
Quintessential Chatty Farker
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2016
- Location
- Idaho, USA
John would be right in this f****r!
Miss ya, son.
-D
Miss ya, son.
-D
Bob O Q Shawtee
Knows what a fatty is.
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2013
- Location
- North Texas
Do I lack enough passion for Q and tools of the trade ? I didn't know people ever got their panties in a wad just talking about it.
Dustin Dorsey
Full Fledged Farker
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2014
- Location
- Burkburn...
There are a lot of adjustments you can make just with fire management alone to control a lot of the same variables that you are talking about with damper adjustments. As far as the vents on the door, they probably equal to the same amount of airflow you get when you crack the firebox door. With the Millscale, I noticed that when Jirby is talking about shutting the door, he really means cracking the door.
Franklin doesn't mess with their vent settings. If you notice there are no handles to do that easily in any picture I've seen of the pit room. They may be preset to some setting and may even be throttled back, I don't know. As far as crispy edges, that's kind of the whole point of the aggressive brisket trim. There are other methods of dealing with that I've seen joints do, like placing bits of foil, etc.
Mad Scientist kind of pissed me off as a Franklin owner. Back when he did his review, he praised the pit in the video while trashing it in his comments. A lot of complaints he made, I've seen the same problem on Millscale and other pits. For example, the door leaked. Well, the door leaked on the Fatstack too. I've seen door leaks on a Millscale in several videos. He pointed out that firebox door didn't close. Well, he put the handle on wrong. I've seen that same clip repeated on several Smoking Dad videos, on why the Smoke North pit is better, with Mad Scientist unable to shut the door with the handle on wrong.
The biggest complaint Mad Scientist made was the price, and a lot of these pits are way more expensive, the exceptions being the Workhorse, and the Blue Collar pit. When I bought my Franklin there was a much bigger gap in cost between the Franklin and the Millscale with the Millscale being much more expensive.
Supposedly fire management is harder on the Franklin because of it's size than on the bigger pits, at least that's what I keep hearing. So why do I see in every video on Workhorse, Millscale and other pits people doing the exact same things that I have to do, like cutting down splits. These ideas kind of get spread by one guy and because of youtube, they just proliferate and get quoted by everyone else verbatim. It's weird.
With the Millscale and Franklin style pits, that hotspot doesn't move. It's just right there on the right side of the pit. The baffle plate on the Workhorse and Shirley pits are going to cause that problem while giving the illusion of an even cooking surface.
If someone just HAD to have a damper on the Franklin it'd be cheap and easy to add. You could even unbolt the Stack and take it to a welder.
Anyway, these are just some thoughts on the subject. With the types of pits we are comparing there are pros and cons to each of them and you have to tailor your cook to that pit. I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.
Franklin doesn't mess with their vent settings. If you notice there are no handles to do that easily in any picture I've seen of the pit room. They may be preset to some setting and may even be throttled back, I don't know. As far as crispy edges, that's kind of the whole point of the aggressive brisket trim. There are other methods of dealing with that I've seen joints do, like placing bits of foil, etc.
Mad Scientist kind of pissed me off as a Franklin owner. Back when he did his review, he praised the pit in the video while trashing it in his comments. A lot of complaints he made, I've seen the same problem on Millscale and other pits. For example, the door leaked. Well, the door leaked on the Fatstack too. I've seen door leaks on a Millscale in several videos. He pointed out that firebox door didn't close. Well, he put the handle on wrong. I've seen that same clip repeated on several Smoking Dad videos, on why the Smoke North pit is better, with Mad Scientist unable to shut the door with the handle on wrong.
The biggest complaint Mad Scientist made was the price, and a lot of these pits are way more expensive, the exceptions being the Workhorse, and the Blue Collar pit. When I bought my Franklin there was a much bigger gap in cost between the Franklin and the Millscale with the Millscale being much more expensive.
Supposedly fire management is harder on the Franklin because of it's size than on the bigger pits, at least that's what I keep hearing. So why do I see in every video on Workhorse, Millscale and other pits people doing the exact same things that I have to do, like cutting down splits. These ideas kind of get spread by one guy and because of youtube, they just proliferate and get quoted by everyone else verbatim. It's weird.
With the Millscale and Franklin style pits, that hotspot doesn't move. It's just right there on the right side of the pit. The baffle plate on the Workhorse and Shirley pits are going to cause that problem while giving the illusion of an even cooking surface.
If someone just HAD to have a damper on the Franklin it'd be cheap and easy to add. You could even unbolt the Stack and take it to a welder.
Anyway, these are just some thoughts on the subject. With the types of pits we are comparing there are pros and cons to each of them and you have to tailor your cook to that pit. I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.
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Quick fix I have seen if you want a damper and your pit doesn’t have one - toss a fire brick up there and move it when you want to limit the size of the opening of the stack - 1/4, 1/3, 1/2
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All good points on the other stuff. Thanks for the feedback.
The even +/- 5 degree claim by Workhorse is such a marketing lie. My 1975 with the stack wide open drafts really fast, pushing the hot spot out about 6 inches past the right Tel Tru making it appear the pit cooks even. If I close down the damper to 1/2 or 2/3 the hot spot moves right in line with the right Tel Tru or next to the firebox (I'm guessing similar to the Franklin or Millscale). The baffle is pretty small - 3 inches wide and is almost flat like a shelf, so I think that contributes less than the actual speed of the airflow itself. I personally don't mind having a hot spot, and use it to my advantage. It's just the one "con" you get with a traditional flow offset.
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1Gradymaci
Knows what a fatty is.
I will sell you my 250 gallon on wagon wheel setup by one of the Top builders in Texas that has his pits in Texas Restaurants for less than a Franklin.. Less than 2 years old and original price was $10250.00
We bought it to see if we wanted to purchase a 1000 gallon as we were going to add bbq to our shops.. we are not..
Message me if your interested..
We bought it to see if we wanted to purchase a 1000 gallon as we were going to add bbq to our shops.. we are not..
Message me if your interested..
You're right. I shouldn't have participated. I was genuinely interested in this topic, and the same individual gets involved and tanks the topic. My frustration got the better judgement of me. Hindsight, I should've just ignored it, for I feel that I caused the exact thing I was trying to avoid.
Apologies to the brethren. I am glad to see this is still on track. Carry on...I'm out!
Connor_Macleod
Full Fledged Farker
Sounds like a great deal - I would be jumping all over that if I were still in the market for a smoker! :clap:
rctyler89
Found some matches.
As another Franklin pit owner, I'd say this statement seems pretty accurate. From all the Youtube videos out there now saying running your pit at 275 with the damper open will draw flames into your cooker and burn your meat...I've just never really experienced that. If I build a normal enough fire at that temp with the damper fully open, and even the firebox door fully open it can come out great. So to me, I think that demonstrates that the Franklin is operating as designed (I like having the pit "just work" I think it's awesome), and it seems like the Workhorse Pits are also working as designed (as being designed to have a lot of airflow with the goal of controlling via the damper (nothing wrong with that, I think that's also pretty cool and opens up possibilities).
I know there are tips and tricks on the Franklin to increase/decrease draft (wood spacing, wood thickness, placement of wood in the coal bed, etc), but where I get confused is when people talk about draft in terms of rendering fat and/or smoke level. Are you saying that you can operate the Workhorse Pits at 275/slow draft, then 275/medium draft, and 275/high draft? Or does the temperature increase when you increase the draft so it's more like 225/low draft, 250/medium draft, 275/high draft? If so, then I can theoretically duplicate that on the Franklin by building a smaller or larger fire, right?
