My First Brisket - fewer errors but still learning ;)

[lay3r3]

Well, the Pitmaker Safe has been on the ground now for a few weeks and I'm 2 racks of ribs and some chicken breasts in so I figured what the hell and kicked off a brisket. Admittedly a bit unprepared! But I had a window of opportunity and a wild hair. Problem then became I forgot we had plans so I couldn't really get the brisket on as late in the evening as I wanted... you'll see what that resulted in here in a minute

Started off with about an 11lb brisket. Butcher trimmed it down and cleaned it up and final weight came in at 9.8lbs.

I didn't plan ahead so no time to let it sit overnight with the rub. So I opted to vacuum pack it like I would for sous vide. Coated it with a light coat of peanut oil and then rubbed it down with Pitmaker's BBQ Seasoning.

This would be my longest run and my first overnight so I started to second guess my coal arrangement. I was going to do a U shape in the box with two briquettes wide and two tall but then I started wish-washing and ended up with a section of 3x2 and I used three chunks of cherry spread evenly through the U. Set the guru at 225 and had the damper on the viper at half-way as my experience has been getting the safe to not run hot with the guru un-dampened is nearly impossible. As you can see though, the temp ran away a bit overnight so I probably could have had the damper at 1/4 but think it has to do partially with my coal arrangement and ended up with too many coals going at once. Should have stuck to 2x2.

As you can see, the brisket over cooked to 200 degrees. Was shooting for 12 hours and about 185 to pull out. I got out of bed at 6:15 and pulled her out of the smoker concerned for what I was going to see but she looked and smelled amazing but felt a bit dense.

I wrapped her and let her rest in the cooler for 3hrs 45min. Like the rest of my learning runs it's more than edible. It is overcooked and a good chunk is understandably dry. You can tell by the color she needed to come off quite a bit sooner while I was snoozing. But, I'm pretty happy considering it was a last minute shot and my first run.

Next time I'll be more mindful of my evening plans so I can get it on later in the evening so my final few hours are while I'm up and watching in case it cooks faster than planned. Also going to hold firm on my coal arrangement to try and mitigate the temp spike I had overnight.

Comments and suggestions are welcome!!

 

[Bludawg]

I don't get 225 for 100 hrs & stayin up all night. Cook hotter start earlier 930 am and eat sooner 5 pm. Why make it more difficult that it need to be?

 

[Nuco59]

Way to go on getting that first brisket under your belt! (literally I guess :grin. Sounds/looks like you've got a very nice rig. (I've *heard* of those overnight cooks- just never understood why someone would want to do one. If you were running HnF that'd be a 6 hour cook instead of 12- you could be awake for the whole shebang.) You have a ton of data and couple of temp probes stuck off into your meat to gather that data...but at no time did you mention if it had "probed like butter" which would be the only thing I'd be looking for - sorta confused by that but... Congratulations again!

 

[landarc]

To be honest, it looks under cooked to me. That first cut seems to have held together quite well. Plus, you numbers don't make sense, 10 pound packer at 225°F overdone in 12 hours?

Still, you cooked, and learned.

 

[lay3r3]

I don't get 225 for 100 hrs & stayin up all night. Cook hotter start earlier 930 am and eat sooner 5 pm. Why make it more difficult that it need to be?

Couple of reasons... first it's just a philosophical difference from what I've discerned through the threads. I'll try both and go with what works. Secondly though, I have two boys under 4 so it's very appealing to me to be able to do the prep and setup after they go to bed rather than taking time away while they're up playing to do it. And, when I have a proper fuel setup, this smoker is hands-off. I normally touch it only to put the food in once it's at temp and then to take the food out unless it's something getting basted. Even then, I'm not jacking with vents. So I don't stay up at night. Once it's in I'm going back to whatever it is I'm doing. Last night We went out for dinner, drinks, etc then went to bed. 12 hours of hands-off isn't a problem. This time though I had a fuel layout mistake (I believe) that caused the spike.

Way to go on getting that first brisket under your belt! (literally I guess :grin. Sounds/looks like you've got a very nice rig. (I've *heard* of those overnight cooks- just never understood why someone would want to do one. If you were running HnF that'd be a 6 hour cook instead of 12- you could be awake for the whole shebang.) You have a ton of data and couple of temp probes stuck off into your meat to gather that data...but at no time did you mention if it had "probed like butter" which would be the only thing I'd be looking for - sorta confused by that but... Congratulations again!

Thanks! I know... I've not gotten my nerve up yet to trust the butter probe I'm a science guy so I default to data first as I get my experience. Then I'll be much more attune to touch vs. the probes.

To be honest, it looks under cooked to me. That first cut seems to have held together quite well. Plus, you numbers don't make sense, 10 pound packer at 225°F overdone in 12 hours?

Still, you cooked, and learned.

Landarc I thought the same thing! It cooked much faster than I thought. I was thinking I'd be pretty close at 12 hours flirting with 185 or so... I'd just take it out and wrap up. Was surprised it bumped to over 200 degrees - both the guru noted that and confirmed by my thermapen. I'm guessing it was b/c the temp spiked to 250 for a while. I'll repeat the same process again but with better alignment on the fuel to try and manage that temp spike and see what happens. The "stall" doesn't look to much like a stall either if you look at the graph. There is a notable plateau but since this is my first maybe that's what it should be.

 

[landarc]

Well, even with the data provided by a Guru setup, the temperatures on stalls are all over the place. And it could have been that this particular packer gave up the ghost faster than normal. I don't normally cook with a Guru, so all of my experience is dead reckoning, gut feel, things went really fast.

 

[Hogsmoker]

To be honest, it looks under cooked to me. That first cut seems to have held together quite well. Plus, you numbers don't make sense, 10 pound packer at 225°F overdone in 12 hours?

Still, you cooked, and learned.

I agree, I would like to see where it would have been at or around 210 internal temp of the point end. I also like to wrap so what do I know

 

[lay3r3]

Well, even with the data provided by a Guru setup, the temperatures on stalls are all over the place. And it could have been that this particular packer gave up the ghost faster than normal. I don't normally cook with a Guru, so all of my experience is dead reckoning, gut feel, things went really fast.

I wish it weren't such a pricey piece to work through variations. And just to get a good feel for them.

I agree, I would like to see where it would have been at or around 210 internal temp of the point end. I also like to wrap so what do I know

I was shooting for 185 so didn't even consider t being undercooked. Maybe I'll leave it on to 210 next time.

 

[landarc]

Granted, at today's prices, these lessons are a little more pricey. I was gifted the chance to cook with a very experienced brisket cook when I was much younger. All I paid was to hump a little wood, and fondle a bunch of briskets. Oh, and listen to him justify the massive amount of celery seed he used in his potato salad

 

[Bludawg]

Your Hypothesis is fouled & you are way over complicating a very simple process. Once you wrap your noodle around that your cooks will improve. Meat temp has little to do with BBQ. That brisket is under cooked it is still tight and admittedly dry. Evidence of incomplete conversion of collagen to gelatin is dry meat that is holding together with no gaps between the muscle strands. This is why probing for a butter feel in the thickest part of the flat(the last place to finish) is accurate do determine when it is done. Full conversion don't happen at some magical predetermined temperature.

 

[SmittyJonz]

At 185* IT Brisket ain't Done and is Tough n Chewy and Tastes like Chit. 198-210* range as every Brisket is different but most are gonna be 203* - 208*. I don't temp Briskets - cook it till it feels right but I did yesterday just cuz - 208*.

Might be done at 200* might be 210* - go by feel, probe tender. The few that do go by temp on here say 203* then a long rest - several hrs in cooler.

 

[SmittyJonz]

[ame="https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sMIlyzRFUjU"]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sMIlyzRFUjU[/ame]

 

[jemezspring]

I'm no brisket expert, done about 2 dozen but only 4-5 came out as they should have, but I think you undercooked her. I love data and the scientific process but bbq is part art. With brisket you really should go by probe tender. Temps are a good indicator for when to start checking for doneness but in no way ensures a properly cooked brisket. I finally started going by probe tender and now feel confident in serving my briskets to guests. Also the hot-n-fast butcher paper methods provide excellent results in much less time.

 

[landarc]

One of these days, I am going to try some experiments to copy the cooking method of Vencil Mares of the Taylor Cafe. Cook at 250°F until the brisket it 185°F internal, then remove, wrap immediately in paper, then into the rest. For 6 hours or so.

 

[Bludawg]

One of these days, I am going to try some experiments to copy the cooking method of Vencil Mares of the Taylor Cafe. Cook at 250°F until the brisket it 185°F internal, then remove, wrap immediately in paper, then into the rest. For 6 hours or so.

You need to have a good thermal mass for that to work. Taylor cafe packs their coolers full of hot wrapped briskets so the temp in the coolers will stay at 185 for a long time. Collagen starts to break at 160 up to 185.When meat is held at that temp for hrs the collagen breaks and converts to gelatin completely. Something AF uses to his advantage also by using a warming oven to hold his meat. There is science involved in all cooking knowing how to apply it to achieve nirvana is another matter. I achieve this temp twice on the way up and by taking it much higher and letting it complete the conversion on the way down to 150 deg before slicing. Just a different way of completing the process in less time.

 

[Demosthenes9]

You need to have a good thermal mass for that to work. Taylor cafe packs their coolers full of hot wrapped briskets so the temp in the coolers will stay at 185 for a long time. Collagen starts to break at 160 up to 185.When meat is held at that temp for hrs the collagen breaks and converts to gelatin completely. Something AF uses to his advantage also by using a warming oven to hold his meat. There is science involved in all cooking knowing how to apply it to achieve nirvana is another matter. I achieve this temp twice on the way up and by taking it much higher and letting it complete the conversion on the way down to 150 deg before slicing. Just a different way of completing the process in less time.

Yep, collagen breakdown is a function of temperature over time, or time at temp. the higher the temp, the faster the breakdown. If someone wants to try it, you can actually get a brisket to be tender and juicy cooking it at 180 degree chamber temp. Similar to doing it sous vide. It just takes a real long time.

Also, this is a good illustration of why one needs to be careful with resting in a cooler.

 

[lay3r3]

Your Hypothesis is fouled & you are way over complicating a very simple process. Once you wrap your noodle around that your cooks will improve. Meat temp has little to do with BBQ. That brisket is under cooked it is still tight and admittedly dry. Evidence of incomplete conversion of collagen to gelatin is dry meat that is holding together with no gaps between the muscle strands. This is why probing for a butter feel in the thickest part of the flat(the last place to finish) is accurate do determine when it is done. Full conversion don't happen at some magical predetermined temperature.

You sir, are mistaken. I've not espoused any hypothesis but rather following the guidance of any number of many different reputable sources that mention 185 as an ideal temperature for brisket. Perhaps you should turn your attentions at going after and challenging all of these sources with your guidance. And yes, my noodle is completely familiar with the chemistry behind the process. I've been using sous vide for years... well before it was a HGTV cooking show buzz word. Which, as you should understand if your as well versed on the science side as you'd portray, is very much about the temp/duration ratio of cooking to get the breakdown necessary for the different cellular structures. This is not rocket science but rather a different approach than what I'm accustom to hence a learning curve.

I'm not so arrogant as to suggest 1-way is the only way to do this which would also suggest all the other people that say low and slow is the preferred route is wrong. So I have no issue with low and slow given the numerous folks that use this for brisket. Once I feel I have a good grasp of the approach I'll try the other approach and see which way I like better.

With this cook I was between 205 and 210. Let it rest for nearly 4 hours and then cut into serving size portions and vacuum sealed. Reheated a couple of chunks this evening in a sous vide at 125. It was falling apart and actually damn tasty. Pleasantly surprised. I'll keep the next one in longer to see what happens to the touch after 210. Like I mentioned, I use the numbers until I develop the understanding of the touch. Already looking forward to the next one!

 

[landarc]

How long did it take to reheat at that bath temperature?

 

[lay3r3]

How long did it take to reheat at that bath temperature?

Honestly didn't check the temp when I pulled it out of the bath but rather was just getting it up to edible temps and it was about 2.5 hours. We had a block-party and I had smoked some chx breasts earlier and they were resting on the cabinet in foil before shredding them so I figured I'd drop the brisket in the water so I could have a cocktail and chat with neighbors rather than re-heating brisket This is the logic I was following... the meat internal temp probably didn't fully get down to 37 (fridge temp) in the time it was in the fridge for a few hours; anything below 128 would not require the bath to heat up b/c that's what my tap puts out; I had about 2.5 hours max before we were going to eat.

So long story short, it was in the water for about 2.5 hours and was perfect but I'm a fan of room temp or slightly above meat.

 

[Demosthenes9]

Am kind of confused about one thing. You said the brisket was overcooked to start, you cut, bagged and vac sealed. You then put it into a 125 bath for 2.5 hours and it was falling apart and tasty. Now, you want to cook the next one to an even higher internal temp ?

Seems contradictory.