Judges and cooks

[Lake Dogs]

I could see probably doing this with a newbie team that had never entered a contest but this was a team that did fairly well last year

So, the best shouldn't be allowed to work on recipes and perhaps improve?

Seriously. I'll bet whoever this team is/was that they produced multiple recipes, to be judged against one another, so he/she could see which one(s) score better, and why. I know when I've done it, I did this very thing, cooked multiple recipes (different rubs, different injections, sometimes actually across multiple cookers with different smoking woods used) and I used varying sauces on them. It gave us literally a matrix of combinations to be judged. And, they were (judged).

So, we can't do this now? Using people, some who happen to be CBJ's, to tell us which they prefer and why? OK....

Last time I/we did this at my house (organized anyway, we always do a little of this at parties for fun) I did only 2 injection recipes against one another, but 16 base sauces (that's 32 combinations). Damned if all 12 didnt agree across the board at the end, and that involved mixing and matching the 3 of the 4 best scoring sauces with one particular injection. It was a very fun and quite FILLING afternoon. AFTERWARDS we hit the Margaritas, which have never scored worse than 2nd in any competition.... :becky:

I suggest not coming to Georgia, too. There's trouble in them thar hills!!!

 

[little bit of r & r]

Like I said I think I look at things a little different and no I don't trust anyone. After this it has me really considering not competing at all I hate it because I love the competition but I feel like there is always a slight disadvantage.

 

[DawgPhan]

Like I said I think I look at things a little different and no I don't trust anyone. After this it has me really considering not competing at all I hate it because I love the competition but I feel like there is always a slight disadvantage.

It sounds like competition BBQ isnt for you. At least you know that.

 

[HookedonSmoke]

I think that this is a stroke of genius. We all practice but to have a team of judges there to evaluate your end product is awesome. There is no way that the judges will be able to consistently pick out a particular teams entry.

If you are boycotting AL, you may as well boycott all events within at least 300 mile radius to be on the safe side. I mean really what are the chances of tainted results?!?!?

 

[bbq.tom]

I've been asked to "help" a new team (from a CBJ perspective) by not only the team, but also another team in the area that just wanted the new team to know what they were doing when they entered their first comp. Team to team is good advice, but when they hear constructive criticism from a CBJ they might listen closer.
Would I ever sway my score if I tasted what I thought might be the entry from the team I helped - NO! I have more integrity than that and I truly believe that MOST CBJs do also.

If you don't trust ANYONE, then why bother!

 

[CarolinaQue]

Imagine that...a team that want's to stay consistent with doing well asking, likely friends that are CBJ's, for an honest critique of a likely new sauce, rub or technique. All of this before a contest so they can make final tweaks if they are needed.

Imagine that...a team trying to do all they can to stay successful with out cheating!!!

 

[boogiesnap]

i think it's been discussed many times before. the odds of successfully leaning scores in favor of a particular team and them winning is very very very slight. there would have to be some major corruption throughout the whole system for that to be happing and i highly doubt that to be the case.

there are a handful of teams up here that can expect to GC any given comp they attend, both in the northeast AND abroad. has nothing to do with cheating judges, just badass cooking skill. IMHO.

 

[dosvans]

Being the team that had the 6 judges over this past weekend, I don't think that you are realistic in your thinking. As other people have posted, this is going on in more states than Alabama. I know teams out of GA, TN, and MS that are getting feedback from CBJs/MCBJs that they know. Do you really believe that any CBJ/MCBJ that I am friends with should never ever taste and critique my food? My wife and I are both CBJs and judge a few contests. Are you saying we should never taste another teams food outside of a specific competition?
As far as the Judges that I had over to my house this weekend, I consider them very honest and respectable people. I don't think they read this forum, but if they did, I'm sure they would be offended that you think they would cheat for any team.
Honestly, I really think it would be a shame if you did not compete in Alabama or anywhere else. Based on the your standing in the BAMA BBQ Trail this past year, you are obviously a good team and cook good BBQ.

 

[bbq.tom]

As other people have posted, this is going on in more states than Alabama. I know teams out of GA, TN, and MS that are getting feedback from CBJs/MCBJs that they know.

Include NC in the list.

 

[TooSaucedToPork]

The Team and Judges have done absolutely nothing wrong. We are all one big family here in BBQ, and the sooner everyone realizes that and gets rid of the Judges vs Teams attitude the faster we can all improve and have a better time. Judges are ALWAYS welcome in our tent up until Midnight of the day before the contest...and they are DEFINITELY welcome in my booth after they judge so that I can find out what flavor profiles did well and if mine matches up. If you are a judge and want to come to my house PM me and I will send you my address, lets talk BBQ.

Most of my team is made up of MBN, MIM, and KCBS CBJ's. When we don't cook a contest, we judge it. We have made many friends in BBQ and hang out at each others houses outside of contests...why??? because its fun to learn from each other and you have a common bond.

The traditition of Competition BBQ is one big family. it was alot different 20 years ago when most of us at a competition knew each other, each others family, place of work, and of course who to schmooze for the best hunting land

Point is, many of us remember that this is one big family, and since the BBQ Explosion (not to dis on the newcomers) some have not learned or have forgotten that.

(Dismount Soapbox)

Neil

 

[Rookie'48]

Might as well include Iowa, also.

I've judged somewhere around 85 or 90 KCBS sanctioned comps, mainly in Iowa, Missouri, Kansas and Nebraska and have undoubtedly tasted entries from some of the nation's top teams. Can I pick out the flavor profile or appearance of any one team? Fark NO !!!

And even if I could, if it doesn't rate a 9 then it's not getting a 9 from me.

 

[mobow]

Like I said I think I look at things a little different and no I don't trust anyone. After this it has me really considering not competing at all I hate it because I love the competition but I feel like there is always a slight disadvantage.

If you think you are at a disadvantage have some judges over to your house to sample your food. You are only at a disadvantage (your words) by your lack of action. keith

 

[Lake Dogs]

Little Bit of R&R, might I suggest judging a few contests. I promise, it will be eye-opening and enlightening. We can talk about this and that, but until you sit in that chair and judge, most of what we're saying here just seems like bitter B.S. It's not. I hope you continue to compete, especially if you enjoy it. If you're competing in KCBS or another major sanctioning body, I promise, it's not rigged.

And, the different sanctioning bodies do it very differently, too. Dont watch a KCBS competition and think they're all like this. They're all different, all have pluses and minuses to each thing they do. I'll never forget the KCBS competitor who came here and really complained about the "cheating" judges in GBA because he saw how the judges are seated in GBA and didnt understand how different it is than KCBS (judges sit at different tables, with a different mix of judges at each table, every time).

Anyway, it was interesting what a tiny bit of information without any perspective can lead to...

 

[little bit of r & r]

I have judged and everything I judged was way below the quality of mine so I don't know why my scores are where they are sometimes. I did a gba it was different don't know about doing it again I prefer kcbs but when you stack 7 judges in your corner they know what boxes you turn in it will benefit. Yes they may not judge their entries but if you have those 7 there are probably more.

 

[little bit of r & r]

I see I am apparently the only one that feels this way so I guess it is time I step away from competing I can always use that extra $1000 a month.

 

[Lake Dogs]

To me, honestly, it sounds like you need 6-12 or so critics to come and give you constructive criticism. The old saying "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" thing. The reason I say this is that yours may be too far this direction, or too little of this or that, for the average person out there. All it takes is one, particularly 2 judges to not be as impressed as the others and *voila* that thing that the others so liked has you middle-of-the-pack.

Example: My partner at most of the competitions where I cook likes a little food with his salt. I, frankly, am 100% the opposite. He smokes; I dont. He likes salty and sweet. I like mildly sweet, and no where near the salt. He also really likes fat, and I really hate to get a bite of fat.

Now, that that to a KCBS table judging brisket, and lets say your brisket is a little on the salty side and you presented it with the fat-cap mostly on. He'll be giving you the 9, and I'll be significantly less impressed. FYI: For this reason we try to be on different tables when judging.

My point is this: You may have too much salt, or too little, or too much sauce, or too little, or any other of the terrible too's.

 

[TooSaucedToPork]

I have judged and everything I judged was way below the quality of mine so I don't know why my scores are where they are sometimes. I did a gba it was different don't know about doing it again I prefer kcbs but when you stack 7 judges in your corner they know what boxes you turn in it will benefit. Yes they may not judge their entries but if you have those 7 there are probably more.

I see I am apparently the only one that feels this way so I guess it is time I step away from competing I can always use that extra $1000 a month.

Not to be rude, but how long have you been involved competition BBQ?

There is NO WAY in hades that EVERY entry that was on your placemat was worse than yours. I've been competing near 20 years, and judging over 14 years and I still judge things better than mine at Comps. If you can't admit something is better, or you aren't cooking for the judges, thats mistake #1 that you are making.

We are trying to explain how it works in this sport. I'm sorry your opinion is that Judges and Teams should never talk but that ain't how it is. We all talk all the time, we give each other hints and yes, we taste each others food and give feedback.

This is how it works. You can get angry and feel its not fair, but it's not going to change...sorry for the reality check but welcome to Competitive BBQ.

 

[bbq.tom]

I have judged and everything I judged was way below the quality of mine so I don't know why my scores are where they are sometimes. I did a gba it was different don't know about doing it again I prefer kcbs but when you stack 7 judges in your corner they know what boxes you turn in it will benefit. Yes they may not judge their entries but if you have those 7 there are probably more.

Sounds like you sat down to judge with a preconceived notion of what is good and didn't judge each entry on its own merits. Just because you like the appearance, flavor and tenderness of what YOU are turning in doesn't mean that other judges will.

If only six teams enter the contest and those 7 judges that you talk about are the ones judging that day, then that team you are talking about has a pretty good chance - IF the judges are NOT "honest" judges. Knowing MANY of the judges that I judge with weekend after weekend I honestly think that you are really stretching to find fault with the judging process.

If you truly have so little confidence with the process, then you might be right to look for another hobby. Just saying...

 

[little bit of r & r]

I have only been in competition bbq for 6 years but then again I am only 28. Yes the stuff I have had wasn't as good as what I turn in, just about every contest we get at least one call sometimes more but once we left Alabama and ompeted in ms we had a reserve grand maybe my tastes are better for the one state over than Alabama. So everyone doesn't see how judges that are at every single contests the competitors are at and hanging out that a team doesn't how them pics of turnin boxes so they can pick it out. How do you think the team knew from the table captain that their entry didn't get the 180.

 

[dosvans]

How do you think the team knew from the table captain that their entry didn't get the 180.

Not sure what team you are talking about, but my guess it was a legs vs. thigh type of thing. There are those teams that always turn in legs. So my guess is that the Table Captain told them they didn't get the 180 because it was an all thighs entry or vice versa. With that said, the Table Captain should not be telling anyone anything. To be honest, I've been to 3 contests this year where a team has told me that they heard a specific category had a 180. Of course in all 3 of those cases, they were completely wrong. If you really think about it, does it really make a difference that the team you speak of found out they didn't get the 180? It doesn't mean that anyone got a score that they didn't deserve. That doesn't make it right that they were told anything, but it's not something to quit cooking over.