INteresting take on why a successful team will not be competing anymore

[Vince RnQ]

There are some valid points about the expense of competition bbq... this is another reason why the various national bbq associations need to be contacting Big Poppa Smokers and work to bring The Guinea Pig to other parts of the Country



This even was fantastic, and if you are fortunate enough to convince BPS to bring it to your region, you will be thrilled!!

Let's just put this myth to bed about how much of a money saver this event was to teams.

Travel expense and lodging expense would be the same as any other event so these are a wash. The two other remaining costs are entry fee and cost of meat.

The average entry fee for a $10K event in that part of the country is about $300 and the entry fee at this event was $400. An increase of $100.

The meat was provided and the average cost of meat for a KCBS event is about $250. A savings of $250.

That would result in a net savings of $150, which in the grand scheme of things, isn't all that much. So, bottom line, fun concept but not the incredible savings bonanza that has been touted again and again.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I don't know this guy but one thing he does mention that I've heard from people I know who compete is the style of bbq required to have a chance to win, and that's the candy sweet type bbq.

I don't understand why there aren't categories that represent styles of bbq. I've heard people I know who've cooked in comps say they didn't start placing until they started significantly sweetening up their bbq. Like the guy in the memo stated, if you don't cook what the judges like you're done. Wouldn't judging to a standard be better? Meaning if someone cooked more of a "Carolina" style or "Texas" style bbq, rather than holding the bbq to if you, the judge, the individual like it or not, judge it to a standard of that style bbq? It would bring more variety to the event rather than everyone trying to conform to the exact same taste profile. Which is what it sounds like happens. Just because someone's bbq isn't sweet doesn't mean it isn't "good".

 

[DUBBAGA]

Let's just put this myth to bed about how much of a money saver this event was to teams.

Travel expense and lodging expense would be the same as any other event so these are a wash. The two other remaining costs are entry fee and cost of meat.

The average entry fee for a $10K event in that part of the country is about $300 and the entry fee at this event was $400. An increase of $100.

The meat was provided and the average cost of meat for a KCBS event is about $250. A savings of $250.

That would result in a net savings of $150, which in the grand scheme of things, isn't all that much. So, bottom line, fun concept but not the incredible savings bonanza that has been touted again and again.

...

BPS stayed away from marketing it as cheaper, but rather, cost controlled.

True, it wasn't a huge cost savings for all of the teams, but that was never the singular goal. Many teams had a lower initial expense, but the savings was dependent on how much meat they normally cook, and the type of brisket that they normally cook.

The payout was for the top 10 overall, and top 10 of each category. BPS provided many additional services. The lodging and services of the resort were available for 2 evenings, all included in the cost.

No, The Guinea Pig model will not be the panacea for any of the contest woes, but it is innovative and a great step. Hopefully other promoters around the country are trying to think outside the box and do something new and exciting as well.

 

[Rich Parker]

I don't know this guy but one thing he does mention that I've heard from people I know who compete is the style of bbq required to have a chance to win, and that's the candy sweet type bbq.

I don't understand why there aren't categories that represent styles of bbq. I've heard people I know who've cooked in comps say they didn't start placing until they started significantly sweetening up their bbq. Like the guy in the memo stated, if you don't cook what the judges like you're done. Wouldn't judging to a standard be better? Meaning if someone cooked more of a "Carolina" style or "Texas" style bbq, rather than holding the bbq to if you, the judge, the individual like it or not, judge it to a standard of that style bbq? It would bring more variety to the event rather than everyone trying to conform to the exact same taste profile. Which is what it sounds like happens. Just because someone's bbq isn't sweet doesn't mean it isn't "good".

You will have the same problem as you have today as there are many interpretations of these styles. The reason sweet bbq wins is because it is enjoyed by the majority. On this topic it always amazes me to hear that some cooks don't like the bbq they turn in. For me I don't think this hobby would be for me if I had to cook something that I don't like to eat let alone taste.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

*You will have the same problem as you have today as there are many interpretations of these styles. The reason sweet bbq wins is because it is enjoyed by the majority. On this topic it always amazes me to hear that some cooks don't like the bbq they turn in. **For me I don't think this hobby would be for me if I had to cook something that I don't like to eat let alone taste.

*But at least you'd still have more variety. The process could be refined. Having more variety in comps could possibly create even more interest and participation.

** Same here. Outside of cost and time this is one of the reasons I don't compete. I simply do not like bbq sweet and if I had to cook something I didn't personally like myself to have a shot at winning it wouldn't be worth it.

 

[Meat Man]

Let's just put this myth to bed about how much of a money saver this event was to teams.

Travel expense and lodging expense would be the same as any other event so these are a wash. The two other remaining costs are entry fee and cost of meat.

The average entry fee for a $10K event in that part of the country is about $300 and the entry fee at this event was $400. An increase of $100.

The meat was provided and the average cost of meat for a KCBS event is about $250. A savings of $250.

That would result in a net savings of $150, which in the grand scheme of things, isn't all that much. So, bottom line, fun concept but not the incredible savings bonanza that has been touted again and again.

Not to hijack this thread, but I really think you missed a very important aspect of the Guinea Pig comp. The promoters view. As more and more comps are being canceled across the county due to lack of sponsorship money. Could a event like this be successful from a promoters stand point. Only Arlie and Sterling could answer that. As to the he $150 dollars savings, when viewed as a percentage it's huge, a 23% saving. That may not be a lot of money to others but to some it might be the difference.

 

[Smokedelic]

I can understand getting burned out on a hobby, it happens. I've burned through a few of them myself. The key is realizing when you've had enough and being able to let go and walk away with your dignity intact.

His letter smacks of bitterness and sour grapes. He should have walked away sooner. If he had, maybe he wouldn't have felt the need to bite the hand that has been feeding him as he left the building.

 

[Porcine Perfection]

This whole article is irrelevant. The lowest score is thrown out and this is why.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I can understand getting burned out on a hobby, it happens. I've burned through a few of them myself. The key is realizing when you've had enough and being able to let go and walk away with your dignity intact.

His letter smacks of bitterness and sour grapes. He should have walked away sooner. If he had, maybe he wouldn't have felt the need to bite the hand that has been feeding him as he left the building.

No doubt. You can feel the bitterness in his memo. He kept doing it long after he should have gotten out of it.

 

[Jack Daniels]

I understand his thinking although i don't really see a need to announce it quite this dramatically.
But at the end of the day there are way more competitions and competitors every freaking year for a couple decades now so something is working.

<Brutal Honesty Mode>
I'm sorry but this sounds like the longer version of the "My BBQ is clearly superior but I never win so the judging must be fixed / biased / broken" whine.

I looked him up and in three years (37 contests) Zero Grands, One Reserve, two 3rds and some Category wins.

If he's trying to do it for a living (like he says) and his how to books and video sales are down perhaps it's because he needs to develop some flavor profiles, techniques and consistency that facilitate him placing a little higher and establishing some credibility for his products.
</Brutal Honesty Mode>

As I read through this I think these two things sum up my opinion.

We all know it costs money and its definitely not cheap by any means but some of the costs are self-imposed. I don't know what he's including in his total for #1 but I don't spend anywhere near $1000 for one contest. Buying boutique meat? $180 on a brisket? $80 per butt? $25 per slab? Yeah, that adds up. Buying boutique meats will not make someone a better cook.

Let's just put this myth to bed about how much of a money saver this event was to teams.
...
...
That would result in a net savings of $150, which in the grand scheme of things, isn't all that much. So, bottom line, fun concept but not the incredible savings bonanza that has been touted again and again.

I get what you're saying (and I wasn't there) but to some folks $150 is a lot of money. What amounts to almost a 28% discount is pretty substantial any way you cut it; you're just putting a range on it that maybe doesn't mean as much to you as it would to others. If you offered me a $1 item I wanted for $0.72 I would take it but that $0.28 I saved wouldn't mean all that much to me. If you were ready to buy a car that cost $25,000 and the salesman said you could have it for $18,000 (a 28% savings) would that be better? Or a $500K house for $360K?

Heck for the OP that $400 would represent a 60% savings over his $1000 costs. But even if a team is averaging $550/comp and cooking 10 comps a year that savings adds up to $1500.

 

[Burnt at Both Endz]

*But at least you'd still have more variety. The process could be refined. Having more variety in comps could possibly create even more interest and participation.

** Same here. Outside of cost and time this is one of the reasons I don't compete. I simply do not like bbq sweet and if I had to cook something I didn't personally like myself to have a shot at winning it wouldn't be worth it.

Please don't take this personal, but that last statement is the problem I see. You don't compete,judge, but need to tell everyone that sweet is what wins.:doh:

I've judged and competed, what wins is a well balanced product that doesn't cover/mask the taste of the product...oh well!

Let the Myth of needing overly sweet BBQ continue....

 

[big brother smoke]

Here is my contribution to this hi-jack that I posted on another forum regarding the Guinea Pig. Here are some real figures to consider:


Just think if you did 15 contest at $400 plus $200 for incidentals (gas, food, libation, etc). It would run me about $9000 versus 15 contest at about $1000 for $15000. Plus the given cash prize distribution would yield more cash prize money.

I am sold on this contest format!

 

[JD McGee]

Interesting thread...there's a lot of love-hate relationships in competition BBQ...some folks love hang in' out with family and friends every weekend and are happy with an occasional walk or two. Some folks get pissed off royally if they don't win every time. I guess this fella just got a belly full of the hate side and decided to go out with a bang! But...he did compete for a long time for some reason...:becky:

 

[Jack Daniels]

I've judged and competed, what wins is a well balanced product that doesn't cover/mask the taste of the product...oh well!

Let the Myth of needing overly sweet BBQ continue....

I whole-heartedly agree with you on both of these counts. :thumb:

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Please don't take this personal, but that last statement is the problem I see. You don't compete,judge, but need to tell everyone that sweet is what wins.:doh:

I've judged and competed, what wins is a well balanced product that doesn't cover/mask the taste of the product...oh well!

Let the Myth of needing overly sweet BBQ continue....

Not personal at all. For the record (and please don't take this personal either) I'm not "telling" anybody what wins. I'm passing on information from people I personally know who do compete in sanctioned events and that I commonly hear that when I ask what it's like to compete. I've also seen the same thing on message boards like this one as well. So either there's a lot of independent people who are bad losers, liars or maybe there's actually something to it.

But one thing I do know, is I'm not "telling" anybody what wins. Because I've never competed. Just passing on information of what I've heard and been told.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Please don't take this personal, but that last statement is the problem I see. You don't compete,judge, but need to tell everyone that sweet is what wins.:doh:

I've judged and competed, what wins is a well balanced product that doesn't cover/mask the taste of the product...oh well!

Let the Myth of needing overly sweet BBQ continue....

But aside from that. Do you think there would be support from the competition community to maybe one day have style categories of BBQ? Such as "Carolina Style", "Kansas City Style", "Memphis Style" etc and have the sanctioned body come up with standards for each category? Or would that be too much?

 

[Jack Daniels]

So either there's a lot of independent people who are bad losers, liars or maybe there's actually something to it.

From a judge's perspective I personally feel it's more the first two than the last. That's not to say that a lot of sweet bbq isn't coming in, but there are guys out there that aren't candy coating ribs that are doing well. As for me, when I judge, I don't care what your flavor profile is as long as it tastes good. If a cook turns in candied ribs that suck to no end then they are going to pay for it. Same for savory ribs. And while there will always be the exception judges that cooks overwhelmingly whine about, the actual, general consensus among judges that I hear and completely agree with is that perfectly cooked meat that is seasoned well wins contests regardless of finishing style (e.g. sweet, savory, vinegar, etc).

But aside from that. Do you think there would be support from the competition community to maybe one day have style categories of BBQ? Such as "Carolina Style", "Kansas City Style", "Memphis Style" etc and have the sanctioned body come up with standards for each category? Or would that be too much?

I can see those things maybe playing out in side categories. I don't know about other sanctioning bodies, but I can't imagine a world where KCBS would entertain such a thing. And while you can have standards and judges are taught to judge what is turned in and not what they like/prefer, you can't, IMO, define hard standard for each type because even within each of those categories there is wide variation of which none are wrong. So then you have a sanctioning body saying if it is Carolina Style it must be this and that only. Being that there are folks actually out there winning with BBQ both savory and sweet and everything in between I personally don't see the need.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I'd love to get in a contest just to see how my bbq would pan out. Probably wouldn't even place but who knows. Don't know til I try. I just don't have the time nor money right now. Working a primary job, running my own business on the side and raising four kids all under the age of nine "kind of" takes up my time. :becky:

From a judge's perspective I personally feel it's more the first two than the last. That's not to say that a lot of sweet bbq isn't coming in, but there are guys out there that aren't candy coating ribs that are doing well. As for me, when I judge, I don't care what your flavor profile is as long as it tastes good. If a cook turns in candied ribs that suck to no end then they are going to pay for it. Same for savory ribs. And while there will always be the exception judges that cooks overwhelmingly whine about, the actual, general consensus among judges that I hear and completely agree with is that perfectly cooked meat that is seasoned well wins contests regardless of finishing style (e.g. sweet, savory, vinegar, etc).


I can see those things maybe playing out in side categories. I don't know about other sanctioning bodies, but I can't imagine a world where KCBS would entertain such a thing. And while you can have standards and judges are taught to judge what is turned in and not what they like/prefer, you can't, IMO, define hard standard for each type because even within each of those categories there is wide variation of which none are wrong. So then you have a sanctioning body saying if it is Carolina Style it must be this and that only. Being that there are folks actually out there winning with BBQ both savory and sweet and everything in between I personally don't see the need.

 

[jketron]

cost aside, I'd like to see open events. Cook meat..how you prepare it is up to you. We all start with the same provided meat.

 

[Gowan]

This thread has officially jumped the shark.