INteresting take on why a successful team will not be competing anymore

Looks like something I wrote years ago. Well reasoned article and I don't see it as much as a bitter letter, but the "bitter" you are sensing is the bitter sweet feeling he has leaving the sport. It hurts. And I have seen many get there so I would not judge the guy. And no I am not saying anyone is as I have not read the entire thread. Just feel sorry for the guy and not pity... just sorry it has come to this for many.
 
Pitmaster T said:
Looks like something I wrote years ago. Well reasoned article and I don't see it as much as a bitter letter, but the "bitter" you are sensing is the bitter sweet feeling he has leaving the sport. It hurts. And I have seen many get there so I would not judge the guy. And no I am not saying anyone is as I have not read the entire thread. Just feel sorry for the guy and not pity... just sorry it has come to this for many.
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There's a certain manufacturer who's smokers are very, very popular on this board who has a similar story. Mike McGowan, owner of Backwoods Smokers told me back in 2003 when I bought my patio unit from him. That he got out of competition barbecue for a lot of the same reasons mentioned in the original memo. It can be a grind and anything can quickly turn from a hobby to a job.
 
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Maybe he was just giving it up for the reasons he mentioned in the email he sent to his customers. He sent it to those who used his products & services. He didn't post it on these boards. He simply told his customers he was getting out and his reasons why. Perhaps to avoid answering a bunch of emails asking "why did quit? What happened?" No reason to slam the guy. Bottom line folks, he DID NOT send that message to the BBQ world, only his customer base.
 
While not a Comp guy, I can fully understand.

I have heard very similar reasoning from people that have stopped racing, which I am heavily involved in. It also reminded me of when I stopped participating in organized martial arts; overall cost, time, stress and subjectivity of judging.

Maybe the important part is not trying to judge whether he is a whiner or a winner, but openly evaluate why he and others are leaving the "sport."
 
Vince RnQ said:
Let's just put this myth to bed about how much of a money saver this event was to teams.

Travel expense and lodging expense would be the same as any other event so these are a wash. The two other remaining costs are entry fee and cost of meat.

The average entry fee for a $10K event in that part of the country is about $300 and the entry fee at this event was $400. An increase of $100.

The meat was provided and the average cost of meat for a KCBS event is about $250. A savings of $250.

That would result in a net savings of $150, which in the grand scheme of things, isn't all that much. So, bottom line, fun concept but not the incredible savings bonanza that has been touted again and again.
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Vince wether you like the man or not this comp was a home run..our average meat cost is much higher than 250 but that's our choice..the meat provided was all comp quality and we didn't have to drive all over the place for it so that was a big plus..we usually trim before we get to a comp but doing it there took less than an hour so it was fine..if we saved 150 per comp our savings last year would have neared 4k
 
big matt said:
Vince wether you like the man or not this comp was a home run..our average meat cost is much higher than 250 but that's our choice..the meat provided was all comp quality and we didn't have to drive all over the place for it so that was a big plus..we usually trim before we get to a comp but doing it there took less than an hour so it was fine..if we saved 150 per comp our savings last year would have neared 4k
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You trimmed chicken, ribs, pork and brisket in less than an hour!

Damn I wish I had your knife skills!!
 
big matt said:
Vince wether you like the man or not this comp was a home run..
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Matt, who said anything at all about liking or not liking anyone? My comments were specifically about the cost structure and issues related to that.

Another poster above mentioned that lodging was included in the entry fee which is great if everyone on the team is staying on site. That isn't the case with our team so lodging is a cost for us. The bottom line is that cost for a contest is going to vary from team to team and from event to event. I'm using the data from the 120+/- events we've cooked over the last 7 years and our average is about $1000 per event. Yours is likely higher because you have a trailer to pull and the increased fuel costs alone could total $200 or more above ours. Add to that the diluted payout structure and a team could have a very difficult time breaking even let alone turning a profit without a GC or RGC. Not everyone looks at events from that point of view but if you have a limited budget, the opportunity to recover your costs or even make a couple of bucks is just as important as what it costs to do the event in the first place.

I'll certainly agree that if a team is limiting itself to only doing contests within a few hours of home, their average cost to compete is going to be considerably lower than the $1000 average we have. In that case, a contest with this cost structure will be a significant savings but that is hardly the case for every team and I stand by my initial assessment that it is not a cost savings bonanza by any means.

big matt said:
our average meat cost is much higher than 250 but that's our choice..the meat provided was all comp quality and we didn't have to drive all over the place for it so that was a big plus..we usually trim before we get to a comp but doing it there took less than an hour so it was fine..if we saved 150 per comp our savings last year would have neared 4k
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I have spoken to a number of people who competed at the event and, while the meat may have been comp quality, (I'll accept your opinion on that), I have been told that the sizes and weights of the individual pieces varied widely. Not exactly a level playing field unless the leveling aspect simply refers to the equal chance at getting substantial and evenly sized cuts vs. the smaller and varied sized cuts.

At the end of the day, competition barbeque will meet each team wherever they want to be met. Cook a lot, cook a little. Cook KCBS, cook backyard. It's all out there and folks are welcome to do whatever they like. If this style of event catches on, it will be because there are enough teams who like it and are willing to deal with the downsides that come with it because they feel that the upsides more than offset them. That's OK with me. What I don't like and, again, what I originally posted about, was the use of blanket descriptions of what a great bargain it is. In some circumstances it is, in some it isn't. It all depends on each individual team.
 
INmitch said:
You trimmed chicken, ribs, pork and brisket in less than an hour!

Damn I wish I had your knife skills!!
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It was two butts which take roughly 5-7 min or so
1 brisket about 10-15 min
3 racks of ribs..10 min or less
9 pieces of chicken..20-30 min
 
Sorry, but I feel I have to say something, even though it's a bit off topic, but in a way, it's not off topic. Yes, C.A. noted he spends $1,000 give or take at a contest. I do too. Big Poppa's contest, there is no arguing that you'll only save $150 or so for that contest, initially. That savings itself is not much, I agree. BUT, his payouts are far from Top heavy. If you got the chops to be top 10 in such an event, I am willing to bet that by the way the prize money is more distributed, you are more than likely to walk away with more money in that contest than a comparable contest with the same total prize money. Therefore, the total savings incurred is a heck of a lot more than $150. (granted if you didn't win in the top 2 overall).

Having said this, if it were typical for contests to not pay so top heavy, I wonder if teams like C.A. would still be in the game? Its not so much costs, it's the opportunity to have the chance of going home with more money in your pocket.
 
<<<<Back to Topic!

I will miss Bill. I hope he will consider just coming out to hang out at a contest. He'll always have a chair under the canopy of my party palace.

As I start my 11th year competing, I've done lots of soul-searching about this thing we do and why I do it. 90% of my contest costs are around the $600 range, unless I'm traveling beyond the 350 miles, then fuel costs rise. I cooked 9 KCBS events, 3 IBCA events and a steak cook off last year. I judged 14 times in 2013. I am not a top tier team, don't expect I ever will be. I cook alone, so all of the work falls on me. I am in the barbeque business (full time job), so competition cooking is part of a marketing strategy of sorts.

I'll know when it's time for me to quit! When I can't hook the pit to the back of the van by myself. When I dread the drive to get to an event instead of enjoying the journey. When I don't want to socialize with my fellow competitors and the general public. Then I'll stay home and garden.
 
It seems to me that the man wrote this to his customers as an explanation and to set their expectations. There is merit in posting this on boards such as this, but not really beneficial to fellow competitors. The benefit is probably to sanctioning bodies BOD's and possibly to event organizers so that they all understand where competitors are coming from.

Everyone competes for different reasons. Many to promote their business. When the cost (in terms of money and effort) outweighs the benefit, then these competitors will probably no longer compete, or they'll change their reasons for competing.

Like many here, with the exception of MBN competitions, I competed alone, for the pure enjoyment of the competition. While I too would usually spend well over $800, luckily averages being averages I would win back about 1/2 of the money invested. I do still LOVE the competition, but honestly I can no longer afford the time and the money (together). I hope someday to get back and do 2 or 3 competitions a year, but the years are catching up with me and every year (as I get older) it seems to be a younger man's game...

Nothing much an organizer can come away from my situation other than understanding that it's a helluva effort by each competitor to develop their recipes, hone their skills and techniques, then pack for travel, travel, unpack and set up camp, cook, compete, clean up, pack up, travel, and unpack at home... That doesn't including purchasing the meats and storing them and any other preparation before hand... It's a lot.

For BOD's, know that while judging BBQ is subjective, the more objectivity that can be applied will take out those frustrating factors that can drive a competitor bonkers.

There are plenty of other tidbits to come away with. I thought his write up was very good, and it was HIS write-up (not necessarily expressing opinions for everyone).
 
Podge said:
Sorry, but I feel I have to say something, even though it's a bit off topic, but in a way, it's not off topic. Yes, C.A. noted he spends $1,000 give or take at a contest. I do too. Big Poppa's contest, there is no arguing that you'll only save $150 or so for that contest, initially. That savings itself is not much, I agree. BUT, his payouts are far from Top heavy. If you got the chops to be top 10 in such an event, I am willing to bet that by the way the prize money is more distributed, you are more than likely to walk away with more money in that contest than a comparable contest with the same total prize money. Therefore, the total savings incurred is a heck of a lot more than $150. (granted if you didn't win in the top 2 overall).

Having said this, if it were typical for contests to not pay so top heavy, I wonder if teams like C.A. would still be in the game? Its not so much costs, it's the opportunity to have the chance of going home with more money in your pocket.
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Actually, Podge, I think you are dead solid "On Topic". It has been our experience that the best contests (and the ones that seem to be around the longest) are the ones that are able to find that delicate balance point between cost to compete and payout structure. There's enough prize money at the top for the GC and RGC to have a nice payday but still spread out enough to reward those who fall a little deeper into the field. This balance is also important in the categories. I know that we look at contests from that point of view and, while we might be inclined to take a shot at a top heavy contest, we rarely compete at events where the prize money is so low or so spread out that the odds of breaking even or making money are limited only to taking GC or RGC.

But you know something...even if every contest had that kind of structure, it is very hard to justify spending the kind of time it takes to do contests, especially if you're doing them alone, the way Bill Anderson has, when you have young children that you are away from. Competition barbeque will still be here when his daughter is older and is spending more and more time doing things with her friends on weekends. I'm betting that he'll be back one of these days.
 
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