Extended Active Brisket Hold Experiment In Progress!

[Kevin James]

Up front warning... this is going to be a long post and the experiment is still in process.. so I will update when results are in, after dinner tonight.

So lately, I have been obsessed with finding a way to do 12+ hour brisket holds as I'm convinced it will make life easier by giving the ability to cook today for tomorrow's dinner so I don't need to choose between staying up all night, or waking up at 4AM etc. when I want brisket. It will also potentially lead to a better end product, I mean hey... this is what Franklin and most of the real Texas places do and many think it is one of the keys to why their briskets turn out so great (in addition to starting with a quality piece of meat and their consistency).

Unfortunately, my oven's lowest setting is 175 which is way too hot, and I also have a feeling it runs hotter than the set temperature. It also has a safety shut off feature that automatically shuts the oven off after 4 hours.

After checking all the settings I found some good news and some bad news. The good news? I realized there is actually a setting that will put me in the temperature range I want... 145 - 155! The bad news? It is absolutely the worst setting you could possibly use... dehydrate. But, none the less I decided to do some testing. I stuck an ambient probe for my Fireboard 2 in the oven and set it on dehydrate at 145 and left it in for 2 hours. I was right... my oven runs hot.. it was ranging from a low of 156 to 165. So the next day I adjusted it and tested it for multiple hours at 130. It ran between 145 - 155 for 6 hours.... which also told me the auto shutoff does not apply to the dehydrate mode.

So now it was just a matter of how do I use the dehydrate mode without actually dehydrating my brisket? So my theory is that it is multiple factors that contribute to the dehydrate mode working as intended... 1. Very low heat, 2. the convection fan on constant, 3. very thin layers of meat or whatever you are trying to dehydrate. Well, a brisket certainly isn't thin, and I WANT the low heat, so the only thing I'm thinking I need to avoid is the effects of the convection fan, which can easily be done by containing the brisket in it's own environment that is unaffected by the fan.

So.... it was time for a real test. Now... I am a believer that you have to test things to know how they will work, and sometimes things pan out, and sometimes they don't so I was fully prepared to completely ruin a brisket if I attempted this and it failed. But if it doesn't fail... well, it will probably mean I change the way I do my briskets permanently, and the benefits of that out way the cost of ruining 1 brisket if it fails miserably.

So I went to Costco and bought a 12lb Prime packer yesterday morning, trimmed it up, and after trim it was about 9lb.'s. I got it seasoned with SPG and it went on the reverse flow stick burner yesterday afternoon at 4PM cooking at 275. It got wrapped in butcher paper at 8PM, and I rendered some tallow from the trim which was applied to the butcher paper wrap. The wrapped brisket went in to a large foil pan and back in to the pit. It was done by 10PM, probing tender and about 208 in both the flat and the point.

I left my probes in and left the wrapped brisket in the foil pan. I set it on the counter and allowed it to cool to about 160. It took about 2 hours to cool to 160 so about 12AM I covered the foil pan with foil to seal it (so it would be unaffected by the fan), and it also appeared to have plenty of moisture from rendered fat in the bottom of the foil pan. So in the oven it went on dehydrate at 130, and I set alarms on the probes to a low of 140 on the point, the flat, and an ambient probe. I stayed up a couple more hours and by 2AM the internals had dropped to 152. I went to bed, but woke up a couple times and checked and it was still holding steady with internals around 150, so it appeared everything was working well.

I got up around 9AM today and it was still holding steady but had dropped a little bit to 148.I would prefer to keep it at a minimum of 150, so I bumped the temp up just a little to get it to climb back up to 150, then lowered the oven temp back down.

It is currently 2:25 and holding steady at 149.8 in both the flat and the point. I have not opened the oven at all since it went in at midnight last night. Planning to slice in to it for dinner at 5:00 today.

Based on what I've seen so far I think it will easily stay above 140 until that time. As to the end product, I think this is either going to turn out amazing and possibly be the best brisket I've ever cooked.... or be totally dried out and ruined. Time will tell :laugh:

 

[MisterChrister]

I believe that if the brisket had enough moisture content left (or you added a little) before it went into the long hold state, this is going to be a resounding success. Fingers crossed!

 

[lzbcook]

Kitchen remodel in progress right now. Would you mind sharing Mfg. and model of your oven?

 

[Kevin James]

Kitchen remodel in progress right now. Would you mind sharing Mfg. and model of your oven?

It's a Samsung Gas range, similar to this one, https://www.samsung.com/us/home-app...convection-in-stainless-steel-nx58r5601ss-aa/ but it's about 4 years old so not exactly the same.

But honestly... as I said in my original post this could turn out great or could be totally dried out and ruined so until the verdict is in it's a little too early to be making any recommendations LOL

 

[harknii]

I love experiments! Especially the kind you can eat. Thank you for doing this and keeping us informed. A true brethren.

 

[Rockinar]

Why does everyone think holding a brisket at 145 is some "Franklin secret"? It's Health Code rules, not a Franklin secret.

 

[Kevin James]

Why does everyone think holding a brisket at 145 is some "Franklin secret"? It's Health Code rules, not a Franklin secret.

I think it's more the extra long rest that people are referring to, but obviously if you're going to hold it for an extended period then to your point the minimum temp of 145 comes in to play which is more of a health code thing.

 

[93_confirmed]

Why does everyone think holding a brisket at 145 is some "Franklin secret"? It's Health Code rules, not a Franklin secret.

He's referring to the length of the hold being the key to a supreme brisket not the temp its held at.

 

[sudsandswine]

Wrap it in plastic wrap for the active hold :thumb: no moisture issues. Probably mostly the same effect with the way you wrapped it though. Looking forward to seeing your results. The longest I’ve held in my Alto Shaam is 8 hours and I was pleased with the results. I pulled it just a shade less than perfect probe tender anticipating that the active hold would have a sous vide like effect, in that it would keep rendering it.

 

[onemanlan]

You are a gentleman and a scholar.

Very curious to see how your experiment pans out? Using dehydrate mode sounds fine as long as you have the brisket contained to prevent moisture loss, like you reasoned. Please report back with results!

 

[Kevin James]

Results are in! OMG... YES this was definitely a success. In total it was a 20 hour hold including 2 hours on the counter top to let it cool when it came out of the pit and 18 hours in the oven fluctuating between 145 and 155.

Moisture was definitely NOT a problem, infact the butcher paper was absolutely DRENCHED when I pulled it out and the whole thing jiggled like jello. Only the very tip of the flat felt a little harder when I squeezed it which worried me, but it actually sliced like warm butter from end to end.

I will say that after a 20 hour hold I was a little paranoid that if my probes were off it could be unsafe, so I double and tripple checked it right when I pulled it out with two different Thermapens just to make sure they agreed with the Fireboard. Checking multiple spots in the point and flat both Thermapens read above 140 in all spots, most between 143 and 145.

Unfortunately my camera sucks so the pics didn't come out to great, but they are good enough to show how drenched the butcher paper was when it came out and you can definitely so how juicy it was on the point shots, the flat shots came out a little blurry though. I need a new camera...

Anyways, I will say that for me, this was a game changer and I will probably be doing all my briskets this way going forward. A long as the foil pan is sealed with foil and there is a good amount of moisture inside there are no problems with using the dehydrate setting, and I won't be worried about adding any additional moisture, it doesn't appear to be needed.

And now for the pics... sorry about the low quality.

 

[ModelMaker]

Good.
Ed

 

[thirdeye]

I like experiments like this. I have seen some videos where guys were pre-oiling their peach wrapping paper, not sure what difference if any this would make. So, it looks like one of the photos shows a nicely set bark but the surface is moist with wrap juices, what was the texture or mouth-feel of the bark like?

I do a pressure finish on my (brisket) pastrami and have the ability to use any psi to cook things because I have a pressure canner with a gauge, so I'm not limited to pre-set pressures. Pressure finishing a smoked brisket is a work in progress, but this is a finishing method.... not a holding method like you are using. For holding, what I have been wanting to try is to wrap a smoked brisket in peach paper, then slide it into a bag and into a 155° sous vide bath for an extended time and see how that preforms.

 

[onemanlan]

Did you just find the Franklin secret? lol obviously it's not beef tallow like those guys were spouting on YouTube. The longer hold time might be it. In my experience cooled and reheated brisket, close to cook date, often tastes better IMO than the day of brisket. That said it might just be from the fatigue of cooking for so dang long.

Regardless thanks for the trip report.

 

[harknii]

This long hold experiment (which is not "The Franklin Secret") is quite helpful to me even though I have no way to hold at that temperature for such a long time. A brisket can still be held in a cooler or Cambro or such for many hours, reheated to 155 in a 170 oven and then placed back in said cooler. Thanks again!

 

[Kevin James]

I like experiments like this. I have seen some videos where guys were pre-oiling their peach wrapping paper, not sure what difference if any this would make. So, it looks like one of the photos shows a nicely set bark but the surface is moist with wrap juices, what was the texture or mouth-feel of the bark like?

I do a pressure finish on my (brisket) pastrami and have the ability to use any psi to cook things because I have a pressure canner with a gauge, so I'm not limited to pre-set pressures. Pressure finishing a smoked brisket is a work in progress, but this is a finishing method.... not a holding method like you are using. For holding, what I have been wanting to try is to wrap a smoked brisket in peach paper, then slide it into a bag and into a 155° sous vide bath for an extended time and see how that preforms.

The mouth feel was great. While the bark was definitely set before wrapping, it did soften some in the wrap and a little bit did shred off the fat cap side when slicing ( I cook and slice fat cap up), BUT this only happened when I went back for seconds about 15 minutes later and I did not notice it on my initial slices. Not a huge deal and this was only on a portion of the flat, not at all on the point.

I will also say I did all the standard tests and it was perfect. On the bend test it was definitely a clapper when folded over a knife but when folded over on itself on the cutting board it did not break, on the hang test it was able to support it's own weight without breaking, and on the pull test it pulled apart very easily.

I do have some further testing I want to do next time I do a brisket, but I was extremely happy with the results for a first try using this method. I think with a couple minor process tweaks this will be dialed in.

 

[robertm]

I have been doing similar in a turkey roaster with pretty good results. I prefer it over the oven in the kitchen because I can do it outside and not consume the whole house with brisket smells (sounds great but it overpowering).

Only thing I didn't follow on your thread is cook time. You cooked 9lb trimmed brisket in 6 hrs at 275?

 

[Kevin James]

I have been doing similar in a turkey roaster with pretty good results. I prefer it over the oven in the kitchen because I can do it outside and not consume the whole house with brisket smells (sounds great but it overpowering).

Only thing I didn't follow on your thread is cook time. You cooked 9lb trimmed brisket in 6 hrs at 275?

Yes, the brisket went on at 4PM, was wrapped at 8PM and was probe tender with IT of 208 in the point and flat by 10PM, so yes, a total of 6 hrs.

While I realize that may be a bit fast, it works out to about 40 minutes /lb which is in line with most of my briskets cooked at 275 which seem to range from 40-45/lb. I also use a Fireboard 2 to measure temps at grate level, so I'm sure I'm not cooking hotter than 275.

I am cooking on a reverse flow stick burner and I have heard that reverse flows tend to cook faster than traditional flow due to heat coming in through the main entrance to the cook chamber and also heat coming up from the hot baffle plate. I can't say with any certainty that this is true as I've not cooked on a traditional flow stick burner to compare. As for comparing to my other cookers... It's been a LONG time since I cooked a brisket on my WSM, and I frankly I was still very new to cooking briskets when I was doing them on the WSM before I got my stick burner. And last, I've never bothered trying to cook one on my pellet grill which rarely gets any use these days.

 

[Cronulla]

Reading through this thread was really interesting. I usually cook my briskets and then let them cool on the counter to 145deg before slicing. If I need to hold a little longer it goes in the cooler. I tried something different this time...

-Brisket went on the smoker Saturday 12pm.
-Pulled it off Saturday night 11:30pm.
-Let it cool on the counter to 160deg and then put it in a 22qt Roaster oven, which I had bought the day before.
-Set the toaster oven to 145deg and put the brisket in on a wire rack. It was still in wrapped in butchers paper from the cook.
-Got plenty of sleep!
-It held great in the toaster oven set at 145deg till Sunday 2pm. Meat IT was 145deg when I took it out.

It was fantastic. Came out great. I really loved not having to worry too much about the timing of the cook and guests arriving. This was around a 12hr hold in the toaster oven.

 

[Springram]

Two weeks ago, I did a brisket active hold in my Hamilton Beach turkey roaster for 12.5 hours. It was set at 150* The brisket came out super juicy and wonderful.