Election for 2015 KCBS Board of Directors

[Gowan]

...The CBJ program as it stands today teaches damn little, tests nothing and is an insult to anyone who really wants to be a good judge of competition barbeque.

Oh, but it makes money so I guess that makes it OK.

This is what the overload of Reps & Judges on the Board have brought about. Thank you to all who have served but it's time for a change.

I think most of us agree that in some parts of the country there are tons more CBJs that want to judge than there are opportunities, but this is not true of all areas. In addition, some folks take the CBJ class on a lark and never judge at all, while many only judge a couple times and then let their membership lapse. I suspect there are also a fair number who give up after becoming discouraged after sending in a bunch of applications and never getting the opportunity to judge.

Several people have suggested a two step judging program along the lines of what MBN does. After you take the class, you become a "trained judge", but you only become a "certified judge" after reaching a specified experience level. The difference between the two doesn't really apply to the KCBS system, but the idea of "on the job experience" being integrated somehow into the judge certification process could be a way to address the concerns about inconsistent training without the unrealistic move to suspend new judging classes.

 

[jcog44]

Regarding judging changes, the quickest, easiest, and most helpful to the judges would be to give them access to the results. Everybody knows how the judges are scoring except the judges. I take judging very seriously, and think I do a good job, but I have no idea how I compare to the rest of the table other than discussion afterward, and even then, actual scores are seldom discussed. I could be every cook's friend, or the outlier at the bottom. I have know way of knowing. I have asked reps, board members, and called KCBS, but have never been given a good reason as to why we are not allowed to know how we compare.

 

[ModelMaker]

Regarding judging changes, the quickest, easiest, and most helpful to the judges would be to give them access to the results. Everybody knows how the judges are scoring except the judges. I take judging very seriously, and think I do a good job, but I have no idea how I compare to the rest of the table other than discussion afterward, and even then, actual scores are seldom discussed. I could be every cook's friend, or the outlier at the bottom. I have know way of knowing. I have asked reps, board members, and called KCBS, but have never been given a good reason as to why we are not allowed to know how we compare.

I believe that "the board" is currently working on getting that info available to the judges, at the KCBS site, but to what end do you want this info? Are you wanting it simply to adjust your scoring habits to match all the others? That's no gouda.
Nobody is looking for all judges to score exactly the same. What the cook teams want is all judges to score according to KCBS rules and procedures, that's all.
Ed

 

[jcog44]

KCBS doesn't define average, good, etc. and everyone has a different personal idea of what they represent. Sometimes it is far from the norm, perhaps due to different expectations. If I am constantly scoring at the extreme, or beyond, I would really like to know so that I can re-evaluate my baselines. I don't want to score like everyone else, but would like to know if I need to adjust my expectations.

 

[Jorge]

You must be a current paid member of KCBS to judge any sanctioned event.
The only exception is if there are none available, voulenteers are considered.
Personally I feel if your going to cook KCBS you should be a member of KCBS.
Ed

What I have stated are the rules per KCBS. If you had celebrety judges it's because the organizer has made it so.
The Jack is famous for having a very high percentage of local politicos and celebraties, yet no cook team has ever refused to attend because of it.
Ed

Sure, as stated in the KCBS website under "downloads" in both the "CBJ facts", and also in the "CBJ instruction manual" it states,

What if I let my membership expire, am I still a certified judge?

• No. Certified judges must be a member in good standing to be considered “certified.” Why, you might ask? Simple, each year the KCBS board reevaluates the rules for a competition. Occasionally, rules are changed and if you are NOT a KCBS member, you will not be informed of these changes.

Although a pretty chinsy explanation, it's still the rule.
Ed

Ed, unless something has changed since I was on the board I think you are mistaken. KCBS does not, or at least did not, "require" CBJs. Cooks tend to prefer them and as a result many organizers make the best effort possible to reach 100%. Others have other obligations or debts in some cases. While on the board I had a cook contact me to complain about a particular organizer and celebrity judges. I found that there weren't nearly as many celebrities as the cook thought, and that the celebrity judges that were seated were providing goods or services at reduced cost to make the contest financially viable. They don't judge, that contest doesn't happen. I contacted a Rep assigned to the contest prior to the event and told him what I'd been told and learned and asked him if he'd let me know if I'd been misled. After the contest I was told that I had not, and that he spot checked the celebrity judges scores and that they weren't any more out of line than some CBJs. What that means to one person may mean something completely different to another.

Being a member in good standing and retaining the title of CBJ is not the same thing as KCBS requiring a judge to be a CBJ.

 

[Vince RnQ]

Several people have suggested a two step judging program along the lines of what MBN does. After you take the class, you become a "trained judge", but you only become a "certified judge" after reaching a specified experience level. The difference between the two doesn't really apply to the KCBS system, but the idea of "on the job experience" being integrated somehow into the judge certification process could be a way to address the concerns about inconsistent training without the unrealistic move to suspend new judging classes.

I am strongly in favor of a two step process similar to what you described above.

 

[Rookie'48]

The Board is currently stacked with Reps or former Reps & Judges or former Judges. . .

I'm not sure that I see any former Reps on the Board, and the only former CBJs are the ones who are now Reps that don't judge any more:

Randy Bigler - Rep; Bill Capstack - CBJ, 100+ contests; Kim Collier - Rep & Organizer; Dave Compton - CBJ, 100+ contests, occasional cook; Steve Farrin - Cook; Don Harwell - Rep; Wayne Lohman - Rep; Mike Peters - Cook & Great American BBQ Tour; Dennis Polson - Rep; Mark Simmons - Rep; Richard Preston - Rep & active MCBJ; Candy Weaver - Cook, MCBJ & Rep-in-Training

And I still say that we need to have ALL of the different groups represented on the Board.

 

[Vince RnQ]

Current or former...it makes no difference. The Board is out of balance and needs more cooks. Added to that, the majority of those who are currently on the Board need to be replaced.

New blood, new ideas and, above all, ACTION!!!

 

[Theresa B]

How many open seats are there on the BOD?

 

[djqualls]

I'll be brief.

There aren't enough cooks on the BoD and as such, in my opinion, the critical decisions made often don't represent the interest/benefit/liability of the cook team.

To financially model the organization around churning out judges is not sound and is quickly becoming a detriment to the viability of KCBS as an organization.

I'll say it again, individual judges aren't the problem. While I think judges should get to see their averages, comparing to their score averages to others doesn't fix the problem either.

I absolutely believe that the judging recruitment should come to an immediate halt.

In the meantime, a new process developed and implemented.

With currently almost 20,000 members and I'll go out on a limb and say 17,000 are single annual dues paying members. With those numbers, that's $600,000 in dues alone to cover the office of less than 10 people in addition to the other revenue streams.

Remember, a moratorium on new judges doesn't mean the existing judges won't still have to pay dues to remain "Certified"

Please vote for who you think represents you. This is my position on this topic.

Like me or not, I'm too uncoordinated to "Ride the fence"!!! LOL!

 

[Vince RnQ]

You have one of my votes, David!

 

[Rookie'48]

How many open seats are there on the BOD?

Every year there are four seats that come open. A Board member may serve a maximum of two (2) terms of three (3) years each and then they have to sit out a year before they can run again.

Now, here's where I'm trying to remember exactly how this works. I THINK that if a Board member is elected to serve out the remainder of a Director's term when that Director has resigned or been removed, that replacement Director's term ends when the original member's term expires.

If I'm wrong on that, I'm sure that someone will jump in here and let me know.

So, to answer your question: There are four open seats this year. Two current BoD members are running for a second term, Richard Preston and myself, and the other two seats are wide open.

And yes, I'd appreciate your vote - but by all means VOTE!

 

[Bob in Corona]

Dave,

Who's are those two seats that are wide open ?


Bob

 

[ModelMaker]

Ed, unless something has changed since I was on the board I think you are mistaken. KCBS does not, or at least did not, "require" CBJs. Cooks tend to prefer them and as a result many organizers make the best effort possible to reach 100%. Others have other obligations or debts in some cases. While on the board I had a cook contact me to complain about a particular organizer and celebrity judges. I found that there weren't nearly as many celebrities as the cook thought, and that the celebrity judges that were seated were providing goods or services at reduced cost to make the contest financially viable. They don't judge, that contest doesn't happen. I contacted a Rep assigned to the contest prior to the event and told him what I'd been told and learned and asked him if he'd let me know if I'd been misled. After the contest I was told that I had not, and that he spot checked the celebrity judges scores and that they weren't any more out of line than some CBJs. What that means to one person may mean something completely different to another.

Being a member in good standing and retaining the title of CBJ is not the same thing as KCBS requiring a judge to be a CBJ.

Dang kid, why you always pickin on me?
Let me realign my thoughts.
1. You do not have to be a CBJ to judge a KCBS sanctioned contest. Rounding up judges is the resposibility of the organizer. KCBS Reps only seat the judges made available to them.

2. To be a "certified bbq judge" you must be a member in good standing with KCBS.

Now leave me alone you big blue meanie (yellow submarine).
Ed

 

[stan]

To the best of my knowledge, you do not have to be a member of KCBS to judge!

Organizers do their best to get KCBS judges but, in the end, fill the tables with what is available and then fill in with locals. Hence the table stacking prior to judging. this fact probably accounts for the disparity that Vince refers to above. Master, less qualified and non-trained occupying the same table.

You are correct I was speaking from having a BBQ Contest 100% certified CBJs. Sorry I wasn't clear.

 

[bbq.tom]

I know that this is a question for KCBS office, but does anyone have an idea of how many cooks are members of KCBS? I had heard last year that of the 17K members (at that time) there were approxmately 14K CBJs (at that time). This was stated by Wayne Lohman at the CBJ class that I helped with in San Juan, PR last February.

Just curious...

 

[Slamdunkpro]

I know that this is a question for KCBS office, but does anyone have an idea of how many cooks are members of KCBS? I had heard last year that of the 17K members (at that time) there were approxmately 14K CBJs (at that time). This was stated by Wayne Lohman at the CBJ class that I helped with in San Juan, PR last February.

Just curious...

Those number are consistant with the year end toy number of 2838 teams. Factor in teams with multiple KCBS members and I suspect the # of cooks is around 3500 - 4000.

ETA:
Upon further reflection I suspect the number of cooks is considerably higher as I suspect most cooks that are KCBS members are also CBJ's.

 

[Rookie'48]

. . . how many cooks are members of KCBS? ...

Those number are consistant with the year end toy number of 2838 teams. Factor in teams with multiple KCBS members and I suspect the # of cooks is around 3500 - 4000.

ETA:
Upon further reflection I suspect the number of cooks is considerably higher as I suspect most cooks that are KCBS members are also CBJ's.

There you have it Mike, I know quite a few cooks who took the CBJ class and have seldom, if ever, judged.

 

[Rookie'48]

Dave,

Who's are those two seats that are wide open ?


Bob

Steve Farrin and Don Harwell aren't running for re-election this year, so their two seats are up for grabs. Richard Preston and I are running to retain our seats.

In an earlier post I neglected to mention that Richard has also achieved 100 + contest status, so it shows that he does a lot more than just Rep.

 

[Bob in Corona]

Thanks Dave !
Wanted to see the mix available before deciding for whom my votes would be cast.

Bob