Dry Briskets

[joespo]

My BBQ Brethren, I am calling on you for help.

I promised a good friend visiting America soon some homemade brisket, as I have done some good ones in the past. But now I wonder if it was just luck... as recently I am on a losing streak... I keep ending up with dry beef!

This last attempt was the worst:
I separated the point & flat to make sure I dialed in the texture for each perfectly. And both probed like butter in the thickest part when pulled... around 203F there and 210F+ elsewhere. Then vented to 170F and rested for 12 hours in a 155F oven (and monitored via probe to make sure the meat never went above 160F overnight).

The flat seems overcooked, because it is dry and falls apart when I try to hold it (video below). But the point almost felt undercooked, because it had more 'chewable' fat than I expected. So was the flat undercooked as well?! :doh:

https://streamable.com/scjsrz

 

[Kanco Connection]

Good place to start: https://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57882

 

[joespo]

Good place to start: https://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57882

Thanks, good reference. I guess my biggest issue is knowing whether or not I under- or over-cooked it, so I know what to do differently.

The flat texture really threw me off. I thought it could be undercooked since some parts were a little more tender when I pulled it, but it cracked and was dry like it was overcooked. Not sure if I am waiting too long for the 'buttery' texture, or just not venting fast enough after being buttery and it overcooks... Or just undercooking it and it should be even more tender before I pull it...

 

[Groundhog66]

Why separate the point from the flat before you cook it?

Smoke it whole, and separate when needed.




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[Back9Q]

Smoke whole and keep whole. Hold for a lot lower length. Try a few hours only in cooler or microwave wrapped in towel


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[joespo]

Why separate the point from the flat before you cook it?

Smoke it whole, and separate when needed.

I usually do, it saves a lot of prep time, and for me comes out better, but that could just be inexperience not necessarily the method! I wanted to give it a try after reading some good points here:
https://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4084428&postcount=5

 

[Papa Don]

Not saying this is the end all fix for you. Try aiming for a lower temperature. Like only going to 195 max. I’ve found that, for me, a 203 goal was too high.
I follow it up with at least a 2 hour rest wrapped, then wrapped in towels in a cooler.

 

[Groundhog66]

The other part of your recipe in the OP I find strange is the 12 hour ride in a 155° oven, I have to believe you’re getting some drying out during that time.


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[joespo]

Not saying this is the end all fix for you. Try aiming for a lower temperature. Like only going to 195 max. I’ve found that, for me, a 203 goal was too high.
I follow it up with at least a 2 hour rest wrapped, then wrapped in towels in a cooler.

That helps and is good to hear success with other approaches. I usually cook lower temps (200-245) which seems to correlate.

My last success a while back was pulled at 193F in the center, and was not as probe tender as I wanted it, but it was 2:20 AM and this beast was on for 15 hours... and I had to hit the sack... Yet it still turned out great after an overnight rest.

I wonder if waiting for 'probe tender' is what is getting me. In order to get there I usually need to take it to 203+, but then I get a dry product in the end even though it felt good while probing...

Anyone else cooking at lower temps have success pulling briskets before the flat feels truly buttery? (for Prime / Choice, this is probably different for the Wagyus)

 

[joespo]

The other part of your recipe in the OP I find strange is the 12 hour ride in a 155° oven, I have to believe you’re getting some drying out during that time.

Thanks, will have to try a shorter rest to see if that helps. I may pop off a slice or two and put it back to see if there's a difference at those low temps.

 

[cowboyupbbq]

Cook until the probe slides in easily. Could be 199-202, much more and it gets overcooked. Let it steam out and hold in dry cooker for 4 hours or less. Also, make sure high buy a good brisket that has internal fat.

 

[bowhnter]

I’ve done a 16 hour foil boat rest and it turned out the best brisket to date. Twice.
3rd time, the boat went dry and well, that was a fail.

I don’t think you’re holding too long as long as you have liquid in there.

 

[gtsum]

I use the foil boat method pretty much exclusively these days. But if you are going to do a long extended heated rest, I would pull the brisket earlier than normal like maybe 195, 196, 197 etc. let it cool down to 150 and then put in turkey roaster or an oven that can go down to 150 and hold there overnight…..6-12 hours. Check out chud’s video for specifics.


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[Mike Twangzer]

This is an interesting thread and details the good old nemesis brisket. I admire those who can hit it out of the park consistently. Keep us informed on your progress. Thanks !!!

 

[SkaterSmoker]

It looked like the flat was over cooked in the video. With the IT of 170 when putting in the oven, and the 155 oven temp, there’s going to be carry over cooking, so like others suggested pull it around 195 if you don’t change your resting technique.

When I cook my briskets to probe tenderness, I like them to cool to 140-145, before putting in a 140 degree warmer overnight. Also, when I take the brisket out of the pit, I try to have it cool to 145 in 60-90 minutes. If it’s wrapped in foil, it traps in too much heat and takes over 2 hours, so I like to vent it or my favorite method is wrapping in butcher paper for the cool down on the counter before it goes into the warmer.

 

[Fsonicsmith]

There are so many possibilities/variables that could have caused the outcome;
A bad brisket-every single brisket is different. The grade, size, flexibility, fat structure, quality of fat, source of the meat, and on and on.
Trimming-it has an effect, particularly separating the flat and point
Smoker and cook-they are not all equal-your temps could have gotten too high at some point and air flow plays a role too-you don't want too much or too little.
Wrapping-when and how? Not wrapping may give you a nicer crust but promotes drying, particularly with a long cook.
Cook time-see above-say what you will but cooking at 215 for a long time promotes drying. Hot and fast or even cooking at 250-270 helps promote moister results if you know what you are doing.


Going back to my first variable-the brisket-it might have been due to separating the flat but your brisket looks like it was unusually small/thin. That does not help either.

 

[joespo]

I’ve done a 16 hour foil boat rest and it turned out the best brisket to date. Twice.
3rd time, the boat went dry and well, that was a fail.

I don’t think you’re holding too long as long as you have liquid in there.

Great point. My wrap had less liquid than usual when I went to slice, which surprised me... But was probably linked to the issue. I will add some fat when I wrap next time to make sure.

When you rest, do you keep it exposed on top in the foil boat? Or do you cover it to keep the moisture in?

 

[Groundhog66]

I guess I am not understanding the extended rest with heat after it’s done, where did you get this method from?


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[SkaterSmoker]

These two videos are a great resource for this subject:

Watch this video first: https://youtu.be/Z0-6eUBBlg8

Then watch this video second: https://youtu.be/-6ocRbEU7io

I prefer a different method than the 2nd video. I still prefer to cook my briskets to fully tender, then rest on the counter to IT reaches 145 and hold in the warmer at 140, but these videos above are a really good source to understand how you can react on the fly and determine if you need to adjust your rest time on the counter/IT temp when putting in oven/oven temp. Here's a few hypothetical scenarios to explain it better:

1) Pull it when 65% of the flat is probe tender, temping at 190 in the thickest part: I'll remove from the pit, no counter rest, wrap tightly in foil to trap in heat, and put directly into my warmer temp at 145. The brisket will take 6-8 hours to come down from 190 to 145 and that extra long time and carry over cooking at a very low temp will finish the brisket.

2)Pull it when 80% of the flat is probe tender, temping at 195 in the thickest part: I'll remove from the pit, wrap in foil, let it rest on the counter until IT is 170, and put into my warmer at 145. The brisket will take 4 hours to cool down from 170 to 145 allowing some carry over cooking to finish it.

3)*preferred method for me* Pull it when 90% of the flat is probe tender (don't mind if 10% is undercooked vs. overcooking 90% of it), rest on counter in bp until IT 145 (60-90 minutes), put in 140 warmer. Minimal carry over cooking with this method.

 

[bowhnter]

Great point. My wrap had less liquid than usual when I went to slice, which surprised me... But was probably linked to the issue. I will add some fat when I wrap next time to make sure.

When you rest, do you keep it exposed on top in the foil boat? Or do you cover it to keep the moisture in?

I leave it exposed. Fat cap is up at this point. I just move the foil boat to counter, let cool, and straight to the oven or turkey roaster to hold.