BBQ Guru for Full Time Stick Burner?

[Karubecue]

If I read your response correctly... I didn't realize it was you that said wood would make meat creosote ridden. If not PM me to get it straight.

Turning Wood into coal is what we stickburners do. I used to use coal throughout the smoke but stopped as I became more proficient with the stoker. I had not used charcoal at all in the 26 years of BBQing everywhere from Kreuz to Angleos the Funkotorium.

Turning Wood into Coals without Creosoting the meat is what I do.

You Load 16 Tons (in a year) what do ya get?

Just so everyone can get it clear... the STOKER IF, PROPERLY RUN AND COUPLED TO A PROPERLY LOADED FIREBOX WILL TURN STICKS INTO CHARCOAL... WHICH... PRETTY MUCH IS THE PROCESS WE ALL USE WHEN RUNNING MEDIUM (800 TO 4000 lb STICK BURNERS).

It does not exclude the need for proper fire knowledge.

I say that from 16 tons of meat and many many cords of experience on pits ranging from small langs to Oylers to 10,000 lbs units.

I didn't say that cooking with straight wood would make meat creosote-ridden. Straight wood is all I cook with, too. What I said is:

• A wood (not charcoal) fire that is being choked will make creosote
• These blower devices (and inlet/outlet dampers, for that matter) control power by choking the fire
• The harder it is choked (difference between what the fire needs to burn cleanly and what you give it) the more creosote it will make

What I think you are doing is building a fire that's slightly oversized, so the device only has to choke it a little to control it. I think that's what you mean by "properly loaded firebox / proper fire knowledge."

 

[barbefunkoramaque]

Examples of no smoke in an all wood/stoker run environment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01EAArFMVRY

Typical Amounts of Smoke on the Brazos run on the Stoker is found here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUltjgjEo8s
Note the amount of smoke when I place them on the pit

and Loaded a few seconds later is about the max smoke I do

and here

http://www.youtube.com/user/PopdaddysBBQ

Don't miss the girls!

 

[barbefunkoramaque]

Its cool My Texas Brethren!


Na.. I look at it this way... THE OTHER WAY ROUND,

I build a fire right and fuel it right, so that the stoker has to supply the right amount of air so that it does not smolder.

Cute huh?

You just have to see how these things work I guess.

If all I did was mind the pit I would,nt need the stoker But I think when you use it right it even challenges my fire tending abilities... It augments them.

John Jackson I am wearing myself out defending the stoker, LOL.

I didn't say that cooking with straight wood would make meat creosote-ridden. Straight wood is all I cook with, too. What I said is:

• A wood (not charcoal) fire that is being choked will make creosote
• These blower devices (and inlet/outlet dampers, for that matter) control power by choking the fire
• The harder it is choked (difference between what the fire needs to burn cleanly and what you give it) the more creosote it will make

What I think you are doing is building a fire that's slightly oversized, so the device only has to choke it a little to control it. I think that's what you mean by "properly loaded firebox / proper fire knowledge."

 

[Karubecue]

I suggested nothing of the kind. Your video pushed the scenario to an extreme and made my point precisely in the process. Overloading wood fuel and choking air causes creosote. I know you wanted to prove that the gadget could handle a huge load of wood, but all you proved is that it can't. Sure, after 2 hours everything was fine, but by then you were cooking with charcoal, not wood. Those gadgets work great with charcoal fires.

I tried in the video to make several comments that this was not how you load a firebox, including the phrase "packing it like a dumbass" but if you skip over parts you may come to the conclusion that this would be how you properly load the box... you would have to skip A LOT but its in there in the first few seconds.

For those of you that put the meat in the smoker and then build the fire and close it up (as karabu may be suggesting)... you may want to stop that.

 

[The Pickled Pig]

We use a Guru with a stick burner. It works fine. It decreases the maintenance some and helps stabilize the temperatures. We still have to feed it every 60-90 minutes so you won't get a full night of sleep at a contest but it does allow you to concentrate on other things during the intervals.

As for the creosote issues, our stick burner is so drafty it will burn a fire just fine with all intakes and exhausts closed so choking the fire would be hard to do.

 

[Karubecue]

Now we are in violent agreement.:shock: You put the fire in the right ballpark size-wise and the unit will tune it in tightly without significant degradation of combustion. But this thinking can't be pushed to the extreme with wood like it can be with charcoal.

Its cool My Texas Brethren!


Na.. I look at it this way... THE OTHER WAY ROUND,

I build a fire right and fuel it right, so that the stoker has to supply the right amount of air so that it does not smolder.

Cute huh?

You just have to see how these things work I guess.

If all I did was mind the pit I would,nt need the stoker But I think when you use it right it even challenges my fire tending abilities... It augments them.

John Jackson I am wearing myself out defending the stoker, LOL.

 

[barbefunkoramaque]

But this thinking can't be pushed to the extreme with wood like it can be with charcoal.

And who do you think would do that?

43 Lbs of Charcoal in a Stick Burner with a Stoker.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SotI-...e=channel_page

 

[barbefunkoramaque]

We use a Guru with a stick burner. It works fine. It decreases the maintenance some and helps stabilize the temperatures. We still have to feed it every 60-90 minutes so you won't get a full night of sleep at a contest but it does allow you to concentrate on other things during the intervals.

As for the creosote issues, our stick burner is so drafty it will burn a fire just fine with all intakes and exhausts closed so choking the fire would be hard to do.

Sounds like the meat mamma before I did the "Tighten Up" on it with the gaskets. I used the gaskets for the experiement.

There's no hope for the Brazos until I build a new firebox. If I do.

 

[smokinit]

I used on On a Lang 84 for years without a problem.

 

[BBQchef33]

one thing that hasnt not been mentioned.. I keep seeing the line 'chokes the fire' used.

The stoker(not sure about the guru), will NOT let a fire choke when it has reached target temperature unless you get a runaway and significantly overshoot to the point where the fans has to shut off. But even a pitmaster running the show will damper down in the case of a runaway.

The stoker, once it reaches temp, allows the temp to drop a few degrees and then begins to pulse. It runs off and on in short bursts. (I wish I had one of my graphs saved that showed fan activity) The pit will run all night within 4 degrees, with bursts going every minute or so. As temps drop, the (on)burst times get longer, and if the temp over shoots a little, the (on)bursts get shorter. When temps drop what looks like 8-10 degrees, it comes on full throttle, and then ramping down to avoid overshoot as temps approach target. The fan only goes off(to choke down) in the case of significant overshoot, which should not happen once the pit settles in. Even adding a log, as long as its hot and dry will not over shoot or produce bad smoke. The log ignites immediatly and the stoker detects the spike and does not go on. I have only used the stoker twice on my BYC and it although it extended the burn times slightly, I still had to monitor fuel load as it seems to burn the logs down faster than without.

 

[Karubecue]

one thing that hasnt not been mentioned.. I keep seeing the line 'chokes the fire' used.

The stoker(not sure about the guru), will NOT let a fire choke when it has reached target temperature unless you get a runaway and significantly overshoot to the point where the fans has to shut off. But even a pitmaster running the show will damper down in the case of a runaway.

The stoker, once it reaches temp, allows the temp to drop a few degrees and then begins to pulse. It runs off and on in short bursts. (I wish I had one of my graphs saved that showed fan activity) The pit will run all night within 4 degrees, with bursts going every minute or so. As temps drop, the (on)burst times get longer, and if the temp over shoots a little, the (on)bursts get shorter. When temps drop what looks like 8-10 degrees, it comes on full throttle, and then ramping down to avoid overshoot as temps approach target. The fan only goes off(to choke down) in the case of significant overshoot, which should not happen once the pit settles in. Even adding a log, as long as its hot and dry will not over shoot or produce bad smoke. The log ignites immediatly and the stoker detects the spike and does not go on. I have only used the stoker twice on my BYC and it although it extended the burn times slightly, I still had to monitor fuel load as it seems to burn the logs down faster than without.

Sorry, when I say "choke" I don't mean zero air, I mean less air than the fire would require to burn all the smoke produced. These types of units use an ON/OFF output with a P-I-D algorithm tuned to avoid overshoot and undershoot - that's the variable pulsing of the blower. These units control temperature perfectly but don't have any input or output based on the completeness of combustion - if your pit temp is above the setpoint, the fan will stay off, even if your fire is smoldering. Again, not a concern with a charcoal-only fire, but if you're using wood it is still up to the pit boss to maintain a fire that has good geometry (compact but aerated) and is of the right size for the pit's heat demand.

 

[barbefunkoramaque]

I used on On a Lang 84 for years without a problem.

Yes, but apparently we need more input from those that either don't have one, can't use one, or sit and theorize how it works. Its no fun asking people that use one successfully.

Fire Geometry hell....I thought I was just throwing the logs on dirty side down.

 

[BBQchef33]

Sorry, when I say "choke" I don't mean zero air, I mean less air than the fire would require to burn all the smoke produced. These types of units use an ON/OFF output with a P-I-D algorithm tuned to avoid overshoot and undershoot - that's the variable pulsing of the blower. These units control temperature perfectly but don't have any input or output based on the completeness of combustion - if your pit temp is above the setpoint, the fan will stay off, even if your fire is smoldering. Again, not a concern with a charcoal-only fire, but if you're using wood it is still up to the pit boss to maintain a fire that has good geometry (compact but aerated) and is of the right size for the pit's heat demand.

I think thats the most important point. I stillhad to watch the fire, unlike what i do with my spicewine and a load of charcoal. I did not/would not just load up the firebox and expect a 12 hour burn with logs. I did what I always do. I loaded up with a chimney and 3 logs to start, got the pit to 350, dampered down and loaded the food. Set the stoker to 245 and left it alone until temps got to around 250, I then closed off the dampers and let the stoker take over. When the temps dropped to target, it went for 4-5 hours with the stroker The fire was no differnt than I normally would do, but I added more fuel in betwen loads(by one log), using 2 logs instead of one, feeding it slighly earlier than i normally would and allowing them to ignite before closing the door. The stoker gave me longer burns between refueling, but I would not look for more than 4-5hours.(as opposed to 1-2 hours manually tending it.)


But to comment on the original topic.. the stoker does not produce bad smoke when used with proper fire sizes and fuel loads.

 

[barbefunkoramaque]

heres one

 

[barbefunkoramaque]

I did not/would not just load up the firebox and expect a 12 hour burn with logs.

I hope it would when I packed it. LOL

When the temps dropped to target, it went for 4-5 hours with

the stroker Now we know how you really feel about it... the stroker? LOL

Me too lots longer than tending alone.

The fire was no differnt than I normally would do, but I added more fuel in betwen loads(by one log), using 2 logs instead of one, feeding it slighly earlier than i normally would and allowing them to ignite before closing the door.

Same here on the extra logs WITHOUT smoking.

The stoker gave me longer burns between refueling, but I would not look for more than 4-5hours.(as opposed to 1-2 hours manually tending it.)

And 4 to 5 hours is a lot more uninterrupted sleeping time than I used to get at night.

But to comment on the original topic.. the stoker does not produce bad smoke when used with proper fire sizes and fuel loads.

Yes, that was a dubious claim.

 

[Karubecue]

Yes, but apparently we need more input from those that either don't have one, can't use one, or sit and theorize how it works. Its no fun asking people that use one successfully.

Fire Geometry hell....I thought I was just throwing the logs on dirty side down.

FWIW, I've used and designed/programmed/built a few of these, both blower-controlled and damper-controlled (like an Oyler but with a variable, servo-controlled inlet damper). But what's up with the personal attack? Why not debate on the merits?

 

[Karubecue]

heres one

The chart clearly shows the fan did not run from 10:00 to 10:40 and again from 11:20 to 12:05. No air to the fire unless your FB doors had major leaks.

But your smoke was clear, right? With wood, not charcoal, in the hot firebox? Sure.

 

[BBQchef33]

The chart clearly shows the fan did not run from 10:00 to 10:40 and again from 11:20 to 12:05. No air to the fire unless your FB doors had major leaks.

But your smoke was clear, right? With wood, not charcoal, in the hot firebox? Sure.

This is a point I was just about to make. The offsets(ok, the ones I use) are no where near as airtight as a charcoal burner(spicewine, backwoods, wsm, etc..) Even with dampers closed, theres enuf air to allow the fire to burn. Maybe not efficient and perfectly clean, but it will burn just to the left of smoldering. On my BYC, the damper is left open less than 1/2 inch to run. (keep in mind that make 3 vents open 1/2 inch). When it runs with the stoker, all vents are closed, but the stoker lets some air in on its own, and some still gets in thru the top door onthe firebox.

Unless donnies meat mamma is airtight, I think that on that graph, during that blower downtime, the fire was self sustaining with a closed damper and had enough air to fuel mixture to maintain a burn without producing bad smoke. As the fuel load dropped, it needed more air to maintain temps and the fan became more active. My klose will maintain 250 with a fire the size of 2 beer cans with dampers just cracked open, for about an hour. Thats not an airtight pit.

 

[barbefunkoramaque]

The chart clearly shows the fan did not run from 10:00 to 10:40 and again from 11:20 to 12:05. No air to the fire unless your FB doors had major leaks.

But your smoke was clear, right? With wood, not charcoal, in the hot firebox? Sure.

I have no idea who's that is... I googled it

When I did that experiement I made the pit very tight. I used gaskets all over the place. The reason I did this is becuase I wanted to limit the leaking factor totally for the sake of the experiements (over packing the firebox) I also WRONGLY theorized that there would be leaks from the fan itself... the door, however prevented it from happening

 

[BBQchef33]

I have some saved stoker logs from the BYC burns, but cant get them to display the graph.. anyway to do that?