Explain this to me...

[WareZdaBeef]

If you got taste and tenderness down I say you win. :thumb:

Yeah no doubt, im not complaining in that department, except when i go overboard sometimes with trying new rub recipes.

I just want that elusive bark/dark red ring combo.

 

[pjtexas1]

i like this thread. i have never cooked a brisket without a smoke ring. it must be some kind of voodoo magic because i am not doing anything unheard of. insulated cabinet, vertical, stick burner all make a smoke ring. the insulated cabinet has the weakest ring. i have never cooked low and slow in anything but a stick burner so if low and slow does not produce a ring in my cookers i would not know. the only thing consistent in my charcoal cookers is i use all natural briqs and 90% of the time i use pecan chunks and a lot of them by most standards. looking forward to this discussion.

 

[WareZdaBeef]

i like this thread. i have never cooked a brisket without a smoke ring. it must be some kind of voodoo magic because i am not doing anything unheard of. insulated cabinet, vertical, stick burner all make a smoke ring. the insulated cabinet has the weakest ring. i have never cooked low and slow in anything but a stick burner so if low and slow does not produce a ring in my cookers i would not know. the only thing consistent in my charcoal cookers is i use all natural briqs and 90% of the time i use pecan chunks and a lot of them by most standards. looking forward to this discussion.

Sarcasm detector is going off like crazy reading this post. I never said i had a problem creating a smoke ring or a thick bark, i said i get one or the other. And both turn out great low and slow.

 

[JS-TX]

Forgot to ask.. are you wrapping in anything?

 

[THoey1963]

WareZ, I don't think Paul was being sarcastic. I think he is truly interested in the discussion. We'll see...

JS, I am sure you were talking to WareZ, but since I listed what I do above, I'll say I used to wrap, but not any longer. Since I got the LSG cabinet, I let them run nekkid the whole way and only open the door to probe for tenderness. (no spritz)

 

[WareZdaBeef]

Forgot to ask.. are you wrapping in anything?

Yeah i wrap in BP when i hit the stall (usually 180ish) By then whatever bark i have is set. I dug up a pic of a brisket cook which i felt was a nice bark but no smoke ring.

 

[pjtexas1]

Sarcasm detector is going off like crazy reading this post. I never said i had a problem creating a smoke ring or a thick bark, i said i get one or the other. And both turn out great low and slow.

Most of the time I am a sarcastic farker so that is a good assumption. I am interested because I love a great bark and smoke ring. Looking forward to hearing what everyone does to get both. This thread is interesting as I've never heard the question on if one has an impact on the other.

 

[WareZdaBeef]

Most of the time I am a sarcastic farker so that is a good assumption. I am interested because I love a great bark and smoke ring. Looking forward to hearing what everyone does to get both. This thread is interesting as I've never heard the question on if one has an impact on the other.

My apologies then. I usually rub (pun intended) people the wrong way with my posts so im quick to assume the worst.

 

[m-fine]

Fuel matters. Burning wood with a visible flame creates more NOx than charcoal and glowing coals will. So, to maximize the smoke ring, use a stick burner and try to keep the temp low for as long as you can before the meat hits the magic 130-140 where the ring formation is halted. If you don't have a stick burner, try more wood chunks. Keeping the surface moist in this phase is supposed to help capture the smoke.

Bark seems to do better with higher temps and less moisture. After the ring is no longer forming because you hit 140, up the heat and airflow. Perhaps start at 200 for a few hours and then bump to 275-300. You can add spice but try basting in oil only and not water if at all at this point. I don't think you need a thick layer of spices to get what I consider a good bark, but if that is what you want and you think it is blocking smoke penetration after further testing, try adding it mid cook after staring the cook with a simpler salt based rub.

 

[WareZdaBeef]

Fuel matters. Burning wood with a visible flame creates more NOx than charcoal and glowing coals will. So, to maximize the smoke ring, use a stick burner and try to keep the temp low for as long as you can before the meat hits the magic 130-140 where the ring formation is halted. If you don't have a stick burner, try more wood chunks. Keeping the surface moist in this phase is supposed to help capture the smoke.

Bark seems to do better with higher temps and less moisture. After the ring is no longer forming because you hit 140, up the heat and airflow. Perhaps start at 200 for a few hours and then bump to 275-300. You can add spice but try basting in oil only and not water if at all at this point. I don't think you need a thick layer of spices to get what I consider a good bark, but if that is what you want and you think it is blocking smoke penetration after further testing, try adding it mid cook after staring the cook with a simpler salt based rub.

This sounds interesting. Do you have any experience adding a more rub mid cook? i have considered something like this at the 130F mark, basicly just pulling it and doing a shake and bake type method with a mild flavor sugar based rub , then putting it back on the pit.

 

[m-fine]

This sounds interesting. Do you have any experience adding a more rub mid cook? i have considered something like this at the 130F mark, basicly just pulling it and doing a shake and bake type method with a mild flavor sugar based rub , then putting it back on the pit.

Not dry, but I have done various seasoned mops and oils, some nearly a paste. I now prefer to keep the rub simple on brisket, so for my tastes I would not add any sugar mid cook, but adding sugar and upping the heat will blacken things up.

 

[jsperk]

For whatever reason, if I use Meat Church holy cow on my brisket, I am sure to get a really nice smoke ring.

 

[WareZdaBeef]

Not dry, but I have done various seasoned mops and oils, some nearly a paste. I now prefer to keep the rub simple on brisket, so for my tastes I would not add any sugar mid cook, but adding sugar and upping the heat will blacken things up.

Well i was thinking S&P only for the initial few hours to reach 130F (that should develop the smoke ring, then add a coarse sugar like turbinado. I am just trying to think of idea's to build a bark that doesn't impact too much flavor. Maybe some coarse activated charcoal. lol

 

[WareZdaBeef]

For whatever reason, if I use Meat Church holy cow on my brisket, I am sure to get a really nice smoke ring.

Is nitrate/nitrite an ingredient in this holy cow you speak of? Or red food coloring powder?

 

[pjtexas1]

Fuel matters. Burning wood with a visible flame creates more NOx than charcoal and glowing coals will. So, to maximize the smoke ring, use a stick burner and try to keep the temp low for as long as you can before the meat hits the magic 130-140 where the ring formation is halted. If you don't have a stick burner, try more wood chunks. Keeping the surface moist in this phase is supposed to help capture the smoke.

Ok. Interesting comment. I've heard to leave them on top of the charcoal so they will burn cleaner and I do this. Never heard that it would help the smoke ring. I lay my charcoal down and put my chunks on top. I also don't use big or even medium size chunks. I use 4"-6" chunks that are longer than they are thick. They look like a miniature split vs a square block. Do my chunks actually burn instead of smoldering? I've never thought to look at therm mid cook.

 

[IXL]

Yeah i wrap in BP when i hit the stall (usually 180ish) By then whatever bark i have is set. I dug up a pic of a brisket cook which i felt was a nice bark but no smoke ring.

That looks delicious. How come there's no smoke ring?.......

 

[WareZdaBeef]

That looks delicious. How come there's no smoke ring?.......

Thats what im trying to figure out! LOL

Thanks btw

 

[mattmountz94]

Both of these were cooked on a yoder 640. I have always heard pellet give awesome smoke rings. Let me say though I absolutely hate smoke rings. I think it looks so fake. I would much rather not have one. I have used the simple salt and pepper and also a variety of rubs. All give the same result for me.

 

[WareZdaBeef]

Both of these were cooked on a yoder 640. I have always heard pellet give awesome smoke rings. Let me say though I absolutely hate smoke rings. I think it looks so fake. I would much rather not have one. I have used the simple salt and pepper and also a variety of rubs. All give the same result for me.

That is one heck of a ring. I agree, it does look fake. Why is it so pink? I strive for that 1/8" dark red ring. Its subtle, but pronounced.

 

[mattmountz94]

The light pink one was salt and pepper. The darker one was holy cow