BBQ Craze Dying Down???

[Okie Sawbones]

One little comment pertaining to judges. I believe that most KCBS judges are very passionate about what they do. I think a lot of them are there to do the best job they know how. Unfortunately, when you are passionate about something you start to seek information about it and I think a lot of information they have found does not follow the KCBS guidelines. All of the BBQ pit masters tv show, internet judge my box, information passed at the judging table is clouding their judgement about completing the task at hand. The judge is there to judge what is in front of him, not compare it to other entries or what he/she expects to be there. A judge should judge appearance according to the golden rule, "does it look like food I want to eat". BBQ was never intended to be perfect and uniform and lined up like chicken nuggets in a take out box. The judge is there to judge excellent BBQ, not perfection. For that reason I prefer judges off the street or noobs, for that reason to master judges. They don't have all the wrong information to cloud their judgement. They look at the food with an open mind and think, "damn that looks good!" 9. "Damn that pork tasted good, I like that hint of apple in there," 9. "Nothing wrong with the texture, just good meat." 9. That being said, it's already a game of inches. We are all turning in meat that is so good. I do wish more master judges would enter the judging table as a new set of eyes and taste buds and forget everything they think they know. It really doesn't make you any better of a judge to have judged more contests, because you are more likely to expect and compare. Stepping off the soapbox.

That being said, if you don't want to worry about the judges scores.... cook better so they have no choice but to give you 9's. That is really the name of the game. Cooks need to spend more time cooking better and giving even a crabby master judge comparing your food to some piece of chicken they had in 1985 no chance of giving you anything but a 9. If you want to prove you are the best, cook better and stop blaming judges. Take responsibility for the crap you turn in. We are not in an everybody gets a ribbon sport.

Eggspert

Great post. No, BBQ does not give out participation trophies. And the old adage ' the cream will rise to the top' is true. Every contest I see a lot of crap that I would not serve to my friends. I also see entries that leave me wondering how the cook did that, and wish I could find out who sent in that entry (which KCBS does not allow) so that I could go talk to them. This is the one part of judging that I hate -- I can never talk to cooks about entries that I found great, and perhaps trade some secrets.

Your other comment really rings a bell with me -- BBQ Pitmasters. They are not what real competition should be, but I fear some judges only BBQ experience is what they've seen on the show.

I am passionate about cooking, and I am passionate about judging. I give the cook every break, but I judge fairly. If the entry is crap, they are going to get a crap score. If an entry is borderline between an 8 and a 9, the cook gets a 9. I wish I could change the criteria for being a judge, but no one died and made me God, so I play the cards I was dealt.

 

[SDAR]

Okie, in my non politically correct opinion, you are putting way too much emphasis on a certification paid for by participants and handed out by KCBS as a fund raiser. Stating IBCA does not have "certified" judges and asking why anyone would cook their contests implies KCBS judges are experts or something.

Honest question, does anyone that pays to get certified fail the certification? If not, what is the difference?

 

[Okie Sawbones]

You obviously missed my entire point. It went right over my head like a scud missile. This post was not about judging and I was not judge bashing in any way, shape or form. In fact, the act of judging in the context of the post is irrelevant. Would you prefer I just said 'cook for 6 judges'? Yeah, feed is what some judges do. They are there for eating, not judging. This strikes a cord with me. Whatever.. say it however you want.. it's simple symantecs and has no bearing on the point of the post.

At this stage of my BBQ journey.. who would I have judge? No one..I'm done competing. I burned out and found better use of my resources. Your op asked if we think comp BBQ has jumped the shark.. I gave my answer from my perspective as why there's one less team signing up. I understand and applaud your efforts for veterans, especially since I am a disabled vet myself.

Btw... forgot to mention is prev posts..Contests around here have seen a decline in sign ups for the past 2-3 years.

Which is one part of my question. Reading between the lines, what I really wanted to know is if there are too many contests competing for a finite amount of cooks.

 

[JS-TX]

When it's all said and done BBQ comps are similar to gambling. No matter how great a cook you are there is no guarantee you are going to win or even break even. High dollar meats, injections, seasonings, sauce, fuel isn't cheap at all. I don't compete too often but when I do I just do my best with what I got and just go out and have some fun.

 

[Okie Sawbones]

Okie, in my non politically correct opinion, you are putting way too much emphasis on a certification paid for by participants and handed out by KCBS as a fund raiser. Stating IBCA does not have "certified" judges and asking why anyone would cook their contests implies KCBS judges are experts or something.

Honest question, does anyone that pays to get certified fail the certification? If not, what is the difference?

Not at all, pard. If you have seen any of my posts on judging, you know that I am very unhappy with the criteria to become a KCBS judge, or for that matter a PNWBA judge, of which I've done both.

All judges should have to pass a written test at the end of the course. None is required. All judges should have to have X amount of continuing education per year to renew -- all that is required now is to send KCBS your membership fee. I would also like for part of the testing to be 'find the flaws' in this entry. This would cost KCBS too much money to put it on, so it will probably never happen.

As we all know, an expert is a person from out of town with a Powerpoint show. I am experienced. If there is a flaw, I'll find it for the most part. Does that mean that Joe Blow, who is not a certified judge, cannot judge properly? Not necessarily. It depends on their BBQ experience. If their idea of BBQ is grilling burgers and brats, then...

 

[BBQchef33]

Which is one part of my question. Reading between the lines, what I really wanted to know is if there are too many contests competing for a finite amount of cooks.

Theres definitely not too many contests here in NE. However, locally, my contest topped off at 50 teams many years ago, and even with a $15K-17.5K + prize pools and lots of perks and giveaways, we struggled to break 40 teams many years.

Admittingly, getting to Long Islands East end is a nightmare with the Hamptons traffic on weekends and having to get past NYC. Im sure that played a role.

With that being said, Many of pro teams that were competing from NY/LI are no longer competing.. reasons unknown, but mine was basically competition burnout brought on by factors stated above. I did it for 12 years.. thats a long time.. Towards the end, between competing and organizing, it was effecting not only my health, but also my family life. I was a bear to live with under the stress of organizing an event. I guess to put it in simple terms.. It Stopped Being Fun.

I think the main thing we are seeing is the change in the game.. Big payouts, bring bigger pockets and the newcomers are less willing, or become disillusioned when they realize the expense of the game. The media boom of pitmasters and other BBQ shows brought in the players, but also changed the game. The evolution was expected, but it came with a dark side.

 

[SDAR]

...sounds like you've got something against burgers and brats...:heh:

 

[jread23]

That is one reason I like Trump. He drives the press crazy.

Great... politics now.

 

[Mrshaunyd]

I am entering my first contest which is just a local one this year, been putting it off for awhile. Reading these post is kinda discouraging, however I think I am just gonna stick with backyard and Michigan comps if I can find them. Hopefully going that route will still be fun as I keep reading the negativity from the bigger sanctioned contest.

 

[nachos4life]

I am entering my first contest which is just a local one this year, been putting it off for awhile. Reading these post is kinda discouraging, however I think I am just gonna stick with backyard and Michigan comps if I can find them. Hopefully going that route will still be find as I keep reading the negativity from the bigger sanctioned contest.

Don't be discouraged. There are plenty of us who think comps are a total blast. We do 2-4 per year all within a couple hours of home. It is expensive yes, but we have a team that chips in. We love to cook BBQ and are somewhat competitive. We go to have a blast, drink beers, talk with other teams, and throw our entries into the hat and see what happens. We've been lucky and had a few calls. Sure there are teams that don't get out of their trailers and all that has been mentioned above. Sure the judging can at times make you scratch your head. Its all part of the fun to me. You absolutely don't have to buy wagyu or heritage pork to get calls. I'm sure it doesn't hurt, but just do you and don't worry about what others do. That can suck the fun out of it, I'm sure. Me, I'm a fan of the atmosphere, the process of it all, the rush, and hanging with my friends in a cool environment. We make our own fun. If and when it stops being fun, I'm out.

Also - props to those doing these charity cooks. That is awesome!

 

[backdraftbbq]

They already do. They spread around the master judges, and they try to not put more than one noob per table. Low scoring judge is pitched anyway. I would like to see required testing of judges, and required continuing education, but I think I am tilting at windmills.

That's not being done in my area.

 

[Okie Sawbones]

...sounds like you've got something against burgers and brats...:heh:

I do. I hate them, and hate people who eat them. I especially hate west Texas people who eat them. :becky: :butt:

 

[SDAR]

I do. I hate them, and hate people who eat them. I especially hate west Texas people who eat them. :becky: :butt:

Have a calf fry competition next month. You need to come judge. :thumb:

 

[gettinbasted]

I am entering my first contest which is just a local one this year, been putting it off for awhile. Reading these post is kinda discouraging, however I think I am just gonna stick with backyard and Michigan comps if I can find them. Hopefully going that route will still be fun as I keep reading the negativity from the bigger sanctioned contest.

Don't let this negativity by a small segment of the competition population get you down. I cooked my first competition exactly 5 years ago and it has changed the trajectory of my life significantly.

Now, I cook almost every weekend, my best friends are all BBQ people, we travel from coast to coast competition cooking, my daughter was just on Food Network, I teach several competition classes each year along with weekly backyard classes, I have one restaurant with a second one in the works, I quit my desk job and now have the freedom to spend more time traveling and with my family, etc.

Competition BBQ has it's problems, but so does everything else. It might be evolving, but it's not going anywhere and it is still a ton of fun and full of great people and great contests. Bigger sanctioned contests are a blast to cook, so don't let this thread dissuade you from jumping in. I went in head first with my eyes closed and couldn't imagine my life any other way.

 

[Okie Sawbones]

That's not being done in my area.

That's too bad. This is the only fair way to seat judges. At almost every contest that I go to in my area, people are all seated at tables. Then the rep asks for a show of hands of master judges. He/she then politely spreads them around, so they are not all clustered. This is repeated for noobs. I don't see any other way to be fair, do you? Have you asked your reps why they are not doing this? I've never judged in the NE, so I am surprised at your statement. I thought it was universal.

 

[Candy Sue]

What Brad says!!!


I just like to cook competitions. I don't really care whether it's a steak contest, BBQ or cakes, I'll do it! I love Chopped type things. It's all about the challenge.


I disagree that you have to have waygu or duroc or organic chicken to win. As the great I Smell Smoke cook, Steve Farrin once told me, "Good food is good food no matter where you are."


I don't care whether judges are trained or not, I do care that judges judge fairly. I believe most do.


My current biggest KCBS concerns is reps setting up too many tables of judges. I think when there's only 4 entries presented on a table, the judges feel compelled to "pick apart" each entry to fill the judging time. That hurts teams and teams can tell when this happens.


All politics stink, and unlike the sweet smoke rising at a BBQ Contest, BBQ politics seems to stink right along with regular politics.

 

[Okie Sawbones]

Have a calf fry competition next month. You need to come judge. :thumb:

Seriously, I love 'em. Used to get some good ones at the Cattlemen's Café in Oklahoma City, by the stockyards, except I think they were lamb fries. Got calf fries fresh at my grandparent's farm.

 

[Okie Sawbones]

Great... politics now.

Just an analogy. :thumb:

 

[SDAR]

Seriously, I love 'em. Used to get some good ones at the Cattlemen's Café in Oklahoma City, by the stockyards, except I think they were lamb fries. Got calf fries fresh at my grandparent's farm.

Yep, I eat em until I pass out...wait...

I bet most of the judges for that have trained most of their life.

I with the folks that enjoy competing. I'm too old to compete in tennis. I respect the judging. I'm usually not surprised when I don't win because I am my toughest critic.

 

[BBQchef33]

I am entering my first contest which is just a local one this year, been putting it off for awhile. Reading these post is kinda discouraging, however I think I am just gonna stick with backyard and Michigan comps if I can find them. Hopefully going that route will still be fun as I keep reading the negativity from the bigger sanctioned contest.

DO NOT GET DISCOURAGED!.

If anything, youre going in with eyes wide open to the current trends and expectations. No surprises and no changes. In my case, i simply burned out after 12 years, and many would say i over did it for that to happen. I was competing, judging and organizing contests in the same seasons.. it was alot, and I aint no spring chicken. :redface:

....but believe me, I had awesome times on the comp trail. Met awesome folks and made some lifelong friendships. For many of those years, (and usually directly tied to how often you walk), I lived and breath competition BBQ. It was loads of fun and I competed every 2-4 weeks.. and the weeks i wasnt competing, I was cooking and practicing. But I felt like i was missing out on things on the circuit.

Like every hobby, there is evolution and attrition. The long timers leave and the new blood comes in. Me?, Im back to Backyard BBQ cooking, something I neglected when in Competition Mode. Experimenting. Feeding friends. Doing 'fru-fru' BBQ.. cooking Adam Perry Langs Recipes and going beyond the Big 4.

One thing i realized after retiring. ddont fall into this trap if you get bit by the bug and become obsessed(yeah, like i did :becky: ) For MANY years.. I was so focused on ribs, chicken, brisket, butts. I concentrated on perfecting my techniques and recipes so much that i neglected/forgot about the fun in experimenting with things besides the Big 4. My family was subject to eating competition BBQ every weekend, and even they eventually tired from it. But now im back outside of the 9x9 container. Stuffed pork loins, Prime ribs, hangers, chimchuris, dino bones, racks of lamb, etc.. .. All the things I did for the 10 years leading up to my beginning in competition BBQ.. Im back to that stuff and having a great time. Adam Perry Langs BBQ 25 got me back to backyard BBQ.