THE BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS

Welcome to The BBQ Brethren Community. Register a free account today to become a member and see all our content. Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Sad to read stuff like this for a guy like me who has only done amateur comps (at KCBS events) and considered going professional.

I really hate when politics and antics like these sully an otherwise awesome group of people.

My take from an outsider's view on all of this:

#1 If some dude was running around with a "real" dong picture on his apron and I was there with my kids I'd have had some very serious words, and if it was in my home town he may have been introduced to the badge. I can think of a few statutes applicable.

#2 Anyone outright cheating when money is involved has basically comitted fraud, and depending on the $$ involved could face some very serious charges.

I REALLY and TRULY hope this is very much the exception to the rule when it comes to most BBQ comps because I have only met the greatest folks and had a really good time so far. Maybe I should just stay amateur and not have to deal with this stuff.
 
Sad to read stuff like this for a guy like me who has only done amateur comps (at KCBS events) and considered going professional.

I really hate when politics and antics like these sully an otherwise awesome group of people.

My take from an outsider's view on all of this:

#1 If some dude was running around with a "real" dong picture on his apron and I was there with my kids I'd have had some very serious words, and if it was in my home town he may have been introduced to the badge. I can think of a few statutes applicable.

#2 Anyone outright cheating when money is involved has basically comitted fraud, and depending on the $$ involved could face some very serious charges.

I REALLY and TRULY hope this is very much the exception to the rule when it comes to most BBQ comps because I have only met the greatest folks and had a really good time so far. Maybe I should just stay amateur and not have to deal with this stuff.

Sure you are brave enough to get shot at, but Bbq scares you? J/k
 
All I have to say is it doesn't surprise me at all anymore what the BOD at KCBS does,it's been doing nonsense for so long that it really shouldn't surprise anyone,when they do something like this ! Cheaters are rewarded,so are some board members bad behavior at contests,it goes on and on,like Dr BBQ said,it's the same good o'l boys club it has always been,and it's not gonna change because its ALL about money,greed,and power trips,and never about doing the right,correct,and sensible things.
 
All I have to say is it doesn't surprise me at all anymore what the BOD at KCBS does,it's been doing nonsense for so long that it really shouldn't surprise anyone,when they do something like this ! Cheaters are rewarded,so are some board members bad behavior at contests,it goes on and on,like Dr BBQ said,it's the same good o'l boys club it has always been,and it's not gonna change because its ALL about money,greed,and power trips,and never about doing the right,correct,and sensible things.

Now granted, I haven't been cooking competitions long, but I have never gotten the impression from anyone I have dealt with in competition BBQ that it is all about money, greed, and power. From the organizers, to the reps, to the board members I have cooked beside, all I have ever noticed is good people trying to put on good events and have fun cooking BBQ. There are bad apples everywhere, but they are the exception and not the rule.

I don't know the full details in either case, so I can't really make a judgement.
 
Kcbs has growing pains. We have been doing BBQ for a long time, and have watched KCBS grow, and cook both KCBS and MBN, as well as MIM. The KCBS organization exploded in size, and like any organization or business that grows very fast over a short period of time, a mistakes are made in management.

It's like a chain business...each contest is a store, and each is run by a manager (rep). When you are growing slowly you can take the time to pick your managers, and get to know them. You have good managers. When a company is pressed for time, mistakes are made.

The problem is when mistakes are made you must act swiftly to get rid of the problem before it tarnishes your name...I hope they decide to get rid of the problem, otherwise it will come back to bite them later down the road.

Neil
 
Kcbs has growing pains. We have been doing BBQ for a long time, and have watched KCBS grow, and cook both KCBS and MBN, as well as MIM. The KCBS organization exploded in size, and like any organization or business that grows very fast over a short period of time, a mistakes are made in management.
Neil


Unfortunately, there have been accusations of cronyism and a lack of transparency in the KCBS in all phases of it's growth.

I don't think that any current problems can be ascribed to growing faster than they can adapt to circumstances. If the stories are mostly accurate, the problem seems endemic.

Eric
 
Unfortunately, there have been accusations of cronyism and a lack of transparency in the KCBS in all phases of it's growth.

I don't think that any current problems can be ascribed to growing faster than they can adapt to circumstances. If the stories are mostly accurate, the problem seems endemic.

Eric

Just keeping up with the other traditional KC "Organizations"?

http://www.onewal.com/maf-b-kc.html

:rolleyes::becky:
 
As i read through what we have available, i see that a mistake made by someone under a rep with a long history of service who was terminated as a consequence. In the other case I see that we have a team consisting of 2 members banned from competing and another placed on probation for inappropriate behavior at a contest. In both cases all parties were able to explain and issue statements on thier behalf to the BOD during a closed Executive Session.

Scores were faslified at a contest under a rep's control. It seems that the rep team in question was made aware of the mistake and corrected the situation during the process. This is evidenced by only 2 of the 4 categories used "falsified" scores, the other 2 categories were apparently scored correctly IAW established procedure. The BOD also took action to ensure the scores listed were compiled accoring to procedure and the corrected scores were posted. http://www.kcbs.us/news.php?id=513
The rep in question subsequently reapplied after the mandated 1 year termination and was accepted into the rep in training program. http://www.kcbs.us/news.php?id=658

In the other event we have 3 individuals and 2 teams being disciplined for inappropriate behavior at a contest. No other details are given. http://www.kcbs.us/news.php?id=539

What I am not understanding about this whole thread is how may of us are willing to take a subjective leap from the discipline meted out for 2 separate unrelated offenses to equal the title of this thread, "KCBS Says Cheating Better Than Offending TOTY/I]".
No where can I find any reference to cheating, offending or the Team of the Year (which I assume is what the OP is refering to by TOTY).

I think these are both egregious errors and all parties involved should have know better. They both have the ability to harm the competition process and possibly the organization as a whole should be dealt with quickly and judiciously. which I think they were in both cases.

Even using facts other than the ones on record, I see no direct correlation between either of these events nor can I see how it equates to the BOD saying they like cheats better than lewd behavior. What I really don't understand it how so many others are willing to make that leap yet they are unwilling to accept the other subjective mitigating circumstances that may have come into play.
One case involves a member with long history of service to an organization in multiple roles or an extended period of time. The other involves a non member that has a history of being a malcontent.

In one case we have a member accepting their punishment and continuing on within the organization and reapplying to once again go above and beyond that of the average member. The other chooses to not be part of the organization only to sit back and criticize it from afar.

So if some of you are so willing to jump to the conclusion that comparing these two things equate to KCBS condoning cheating over lewd behavior you will have to forgive me if I jump to another conclusion altogether. I see this as a proud organization that will take the difficult path of disciplining those that violate the rules quickly and quietly without dragging anyone through the mud.

I have no problem with an organization that is more lienent with a long time member that makes a mistake than a person that is unwilling to be part of our process yet sees fit to criticize from without. That is what paying dues every year gets you. You get to be part of process and call it your own. If you are not willing to accept that, why should an organization accept you? Some may call it the old boys network, I call it reward for being a contributing member and I have no problem being part of an organization willing to take a stong stance against an outsider and giving long time members the benefit of the doubt.

In the case of the scoring, corrective actions were made onsite and also afterward that enabled all the affected parties to be made whole. It may have been a major pain in the ass and really sucked if you were one of those, but in the end proper scores were used. How do make whole someone that gets offended by a lewd act? What can you do to make it better to those that this act affected?
 
I hve no problem with an organization that is more lienent with a long time member that makes a mistake than a person that is unwilling to be part of our process yet sees fit to criticize from without. That is what paying dues every year gets you. You get to be part of process and call it your own. If you are not willing to accept that, why should an organization accept you? Some may call it the old boys network, I call it reward for being a contributing member and I have no problem being part of an organization willing to take aTy stong stance against an outsider and giving long time members the benefit of the doubt.

Both were wrong, but rules are rules, and NO ONE should ever be treated better than anyone else in KCBS where the rules are concerned. I don't care if everyone hates a team and thinks the other is Gods gift, you treat them the same. If you dont then your organizations integrity is shot to chit and its rules mean nothing.

NO ONE should EVER get preferential treatment in this organization where the rules are concerned...I dont care if you founded KCBS, you break a rule, you receive the same sentence as first time CBJ or rookie cook.

That is the problem many of us have...They don't treat everyone the same.
 
Then there is the theory, since someone has been identified as being a malcontent (One man's malcontent being Another man's whistle blower perhaps), that the board seized upon the first opportunity to silence, by banishment, this malcontent for a long, long time.
 
Hey, I just got an email that the new KCBS scoring system is going live. Perhaps the suspended rep was reinstated to make this happen!

I love a good conspiracy theory.
 
Both were wrong, but rules are rules, and NO ONE should ever be treated better than anyone else in KCBS where the rules are concerned. I don't care if everyone hates a team and thinks the other is Gods gift, you treat them the same. If you dont then your organizations integrity is shot to chit and its rules mean nothing.

NO ONE should EVER get preferential treatment in this organization where the rules are concerned...I dont care if you founded KCBS, you break a rule, you receive the same sentence as first time CBJ or rookie cook.

That is the problem many of us have...They don't treat everyone the same.

All things being equal, I agree but here we are comparing apples and oranges, Sonny's case to Dan's.

Why is there no comparison to other team at the same contest that also was deemed to have acted inappropriately? That is a much more equal and equitable comparison than to another event involving a completely different set of circumstances?
 
Both the team and the rep should have gotten the SAME sentence,both did innapproprite things at a contest,bottom line.If you don't believe there's blantent favoritism in KCBS,then you haven't paid any attention to the stuff going on the past few years.
 
Dan was caught up in "penisgate" I know, but just because he likes to bi*ch about things doesn't mean he should be treated different, or have the book thrown at him

Sonny messed up, didn't follow the rules, and it effected the outcome of a contest. In business, do you allow your managers to get away with things because you like them better than others, yep...are you setting yourself up for a fair labor lawsuit...you betta believe it.

The difference between the two...Absolutely nothing. They both had people under them do stupid things. They both have to deal with the consequences handed down...

One mistake compromised the integrity of an entire contest, the other compromised a teams integrity... Big difference.
 
I am not sure that a board member can even comment in a public forum about an issue like this. There are rules about that.
 
My title of the thread came to me as follows:

When the apron incident first happened, there were two people who complained. Two. Both of these were head cooks of perennial TOTY teams and carried a lot of weight with the board. I don't doubt that the two reps, one rep in training, and contest promoter on the BOD had their own say, and I won't argue that over the course of the next 72 hours there wasn't at least one other person who contacted the board, if for no other reason than the thread on this forum getting people riled up. One of the predominant reasons given for the punishment of my teammate and me was that the wearing of the apron to awards "hurt the brand and product" of the KCBS, so a severe punishment was levied to try to ensure that it never happened again.

There are now descriptions of the rep incident which go into more and different detail which was originally published on the BOD notes. Maybe I read things incorrectly, or maybe the notes were not taken very accurately, but the way I read the original notes was that two tables were short judges, and some how fake score cards were produced. Then, as I read the original notes, the process for "missing" score cards was introduced after the fake score cards were discovered, and those score cards, not the fake ones, were used as the official scores. If that is not what happened, then I would personally like to understand better the meaning behind the official notes. The whole thing wouldn't quite make sense to me either. I don't expect to get any answers to that, but the things coming out now, just don't seem to line up with what was originally reported.

As I said, the reason for my original post and title was based in the "harm" my former teammate caused KCBS when he wore that apron. How severe was that harm relative to that caused by scoring issues, whether they were outright cheating and making up of scores, or committing a snafu and inadvertently hosing 12 teams? How many people have quit KCBS or their competitions because of what my former teammate did? How many would have quit if we had been punished less severely? How many have quit because of the scoring issues? TOTY was mentioned because I believe that had the people complaining about my partner's actions not been the two individuals that they are, the punishment would not have been as severe. Members of the BOD may disagree, but the fact is, we will never know. I apologize if the title of this thread doesn't make much sense to you, but it did to me. At the time it was written in a "WTF" moment, and was not intended to spark a 16 page (and counting) thread. I hope that at least helps you connect the dots and understand.

I was called a malcontent, and a picture was painted of me as some one who has consistently caused problems. Over a four year period of time, I competed in roughly 25 competitions, most of which were KCBS events. Over all that time and all those events, I remember one where I got angry at an organizer who lied to me and prevented me from leaving an event until the morning after awards, and another two years later where that same organizer harassed me while I was trying to build a turn in box. Aside from those two incidents, I am not aware of having any issues at any event, KCBS or otherwise. I have also had respectful dialog with the BOD in the past over other issues.

If you are referring to the posts I make here on the BBQ Brethren, many members of the KCBS BOD have repeatedly said that this is not an official communications medium with the KCBS. Even still, the majority of my "malcontent" behaviour it seems was encouraging people to not feel obligated to join the KCBS because they compete. My stance is, and has been for some time, that competitors pay the KCBS a fee to participate in events, and telling competitors who aren't members that they don't support the organization is hogwash. My teammate was a member of KCBS during last BBQ season, and I have been a member of KCBS for multiple years, but each time, I seem to get financially abused, and I respectfully choose to not continue that abuse. For the record, I never said I wasn’t a member, but a former member of the BOD violated my trust and “outed” me on it. Indeed, I once suggested that every team be required to have a KCBS member, but was told by a member of the BOD that it would violate the not for profit status of KCBS. In my opinion, if the KCBS wants to keep that NPO status, they should respect the requirements of it, and not try to guilt extort membership fees out of people. They should earn them. If you disagree, that is your prerogative.

None of this is to excuse what my teammate did. I will defend my character in this thread with the truth. If you believe that the relative punishments for the two incidents make sense (and indeed, it appears that you do), I won't harass or insult you over that opinion. Please remember though that painting a picture of my with a broad brush is fair to no one.

Thank you,

dmp
 
Why is there no comparison to other team at the same contest that also was deemed to have acted inappropriately?

You want a comparison? Fine. The other guy, I'll call him Fred, had an idea and gave my former teamate an apron and suggested he wear it at awards. He then sat with him at awards, egged him on, and made sure to take a picture of him accepting the award with the apron on. For that complicity, he got one year probation.

I didn't know about the apron, didn't sit at the table with them, and didn't see it. I signed a piece of paper as the "head cook" and got treated more harshly than Fred, who's been cooking up a storm on the KCBS circuit this year.

Of course, the point was never to compare me to "Fred." It was to compare the incidents: Some one wears an adult themed apron, and the 2013 board votes 8-3 that a three year ban makes sense. A rep is involved with "invalid scoring" and the 2013 board votes 7-3 that one year makes sense. Which incident do you think hurt the brand, product, and integrity of KCBS more? If you think that they are at least equal, does that make sense?

dmp
 
Other than the three "no" voters, have there been ANY comments made in this thread by a member of the board?

This has been pointed out before, but it bears repeating. This forum is not an official communications vehicle for the KCBS BOD. Some Board members are also members here and may see and participate in this thread, but it is unlikely that the rest of the BOD will even see this thread. Any official communications with the board should go through, and come from, KCBS directly.
 
Back
Top