LVQuefest allentown pa non payment

Why should KCBS be held accountable

They used to be, and they need to return to that. There are a few mechanisms that could be used. Escow? A bond? Event insurance? Organizers defaults aren't common, but it's not unheard of either. Teams are spending thousands to enter a sanctioned contest and it seems to me that hoping the organizer does the right thing is not the best solution.
 
They used to be, and they need to return to that. There are a few mechanisms that could be used. Escow? A bond? Event insurance? Organizers defaults aren't common, but it's not unheard of either. Teams are spending thousands to enter a sanctioned contest and it seems to me that hoping the organizer does the right thing is not the best solution.

That's right. They USED to be. I brought up insurance in my post. But if you think they are just going to do this for free, then think again. How much do you think the insurance payment would be for the American Royal prize fund? Not cheap. Cooks and organizers will end paying for it one way or another.

I realize I am not on the popular side of this issue. Not the first time and won't be the last. :wink:
 
They used to be, and they need to return to that.
Did they? Granted I haven't been around that long but I've never heard of KCBS paying out in the case of an organizer default. They've paid out in the event of a scoring error on the part of KCBS but the only other organizer default I know of was St.Louis 2 or 3 years ago, did KCBS step in there?
 
Why should KCBS be held accountable? One person from KCBS was quoted as saying they thought the organizer was "sincere" about paying you. KCBS isn't going to "let" the organizer do anything. It is not within their control. I know you are pissed about not getting your money but you are really reaching here. Don't blame KCBS because the organizer can't run an event. With most events (this one included) there is a whole lot more than just a barbeque competition.

If you do want to give KCBS the responsibility (and power) of managing the prize pool, be prepared for the following:

A sanctioning fee for the organizers, cooks, and judges.
Mandatory KCBS membership for all team members to cook and judges to judge a KCBS event. Make sure to carry your card!
Higher entry fees. KCBS will need to pay for insurance as that will be the way any situations like this are resolved.
Tighter control of sponsors. Authorized banners only, etc.. Similar to what Walmart has done with the Sam's Club series.
Tighter control of equipment and supplies (i.e. You can only use Kingsford charcoal. The "official" charcoal of KCBS.
Less competition proceeds going to charities.

I could go on. Better watch what you wish for.

You know I honestly would probably renew my membership if they did that and I would be willing to compete and it it costs more then so be it. It is not ok though to do nothing. It's just not right to turn a blind eye to it. Increased cost would be worth it. My opinion though. What do others think about increased cost to protect teams?
 
What i read out of this is it is ok, since it only happens of often, or it does not effect me, or everyone should not have to pay more to protect against this, la bla bla.

this is basically a prescription to default on a contest, it will happen again, and again, until something is done, perhaps never effect most, but it will continue to happen.
people are being short sided ed as usual.

the best way, the proper way is not always, perhaps never, the easy way. why are some so willing to toss people by the wayside but not embrace the fact things could and should be better?

I have giveen up, the money is lost, ok, but really i do not see the comrade, the BRETHREN, that i frankly would expect here. frankly, if i continue to compete, and that is a very slim chance it will only be with the organizations i have dealt with and also believe in the mission the are trying to benefit.

i hope no one ever has to go through this, but i hope i would have more compassion and caring than i get from this thread, perhaps kcbs has done so much more for others to elicit this favoritism, to me it is an organization that should look at this as an opportunity to prevent this in the future.

I apologize for the long winded response, chalk it up to buffalo trace, but do not tell me it is cost prohiitive to protect your fellow BRETHREN, or competitors!

Phil, sorry for the rant, thanks for all you do!
 
Still say that sending the money into KCBS and then they send checks with the reps is completely feasible.. it does not make them financially liable, it does however allow them to make the organizer accountable.

and costs to KCBS is minimal $$ compared to what they take in.
 
Still say that sending the money into KCBS and then they send checks with the reps is completely feasible.. it does not make them financially liable, it does however allow them to make the organizer accountable.

and costs to KCBS is minimal $$ compared to what they take in.

How long until that morphs into "KCBS will mail the winner's checks out within 45 days of the contest" (American Royal)
 
How long until that morphs into "KCBS will mail the winner's checks out within 45 days of the contest" (American Royal)

It's better than the alternative which is not getting paid at all.

At least it's something.
 
New 2015 Contest Sanctioning Application http://www.kcbs.us/pdf/2015_Sanctioning_Application.pdf

On Page 2,
Condition #4.
I (organizer) agree to submit to KCBS a minimum of 90 days prior to the contest a list of all prize monies and a letter guaranteeing payment of said money.

No sure what this letter has to contain, who is letter is from (organizer, bank, bond company, etc..) or how KCBS can draw the guaranteed funds. If KCBS can not draw the funds then the letter is a useless piece of paper.

It should read something like this:

I agree to submit to KCBS a minimum of 90 days prior to the contest a list of all prize moneys along with a surety bond issued by a national bank or bonding company to guarantee the funds naming KCBS as the recipient. The surety shall be for a period to include 180 days after the contest date.
 
Perhaps you missed it, but I posted the exact letter template supplied by KCBS earlier in this thread. It is located here: http://bbq-brethren.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3103027&postcount=179

Just my opinion.
That letter referenced in the link is a written contract between the organizer and KCBS. Its backing is the good faith word of the origanizer or enforcement through the court system. Because KCBS accepted the letter as a performance guarantee, KCBS has accepted the liability upon default. Teams could also take the origanizer to court because of their contract (entry form) with the origanizer.


With a surety bond, upon default, KCBS pulls the bond and pays out everybody. Typically the bond is 125% of the estimated cost of what is bonded.
 
Thanks for reporting on the payment efforts.

If we're going to publicly castigate someone for their faults, we should publicly recognize their efforts when they try to make amends.

Eric

Absolutely. I tried to slow the villagers as they shouldered pitchforks and torches, but the march on Frankenstein's castle wasn't about to be stopped.

Why not give the guy a break and give him time to make good? Lord knows I've been owed by folks who never made the effort. Kudos to him for doing so and fingers crossed that it all works out in the end.
 
Absolutely. I tried to slow the villagers as they shouldered pitchforks and torches, but the march on Frankenstein's castle wasn't about to be stopped.

Why not give the guy a break and give him time to make good? Lord knows I've been owed by folks who never made the effort. Kudos to him for doing so and fingers crossed that it all works out in the end.

Well you might want to call off the parade for your buddy. After making one weekly payment as promised, two weeks have been missed with no contact or explanation (excuse). He paid $200 of $10,000, crack open the champagne!
 
Somebody pretty much got way ahead of themselves in regards to the guy 'making good'.

How many lessons do we take in again before we learn something?

He likely saw some folks applauding his initial effort and figured he bought more time to stall.

So, about those pitchforks you were talking about??? Yeah. Ok, now let's make an excuse for him about how the holidays take time and money from folks?

If he doesn't make good to those who are 'owed'....then I would say all teams who entered do in fact have a horse in the race. Took people's money with understanding that there would be a contest with cash prizes. If nobody gets their prizes, the whole thing is a sham. No?
 
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