"Whether you like it or not"

[Jeff_in_KC]

I kinda disagree with you guys that those who cook 25 or 30 contests a year deserve to win TOY because of the effort they've put in. Because if a team that cooks say eight contests a year works their butt off practicing when they aren't competing, judging to learn what judges find good and bad and they end up scoring enough points to make the top ten, wouldn't they actually deserve it more than a team that cooks thirty contests? I mean seriously! It you're good enough to do in eight events what another team does in 30 events, my money's with the small guy! I don't know how you can say someone deserves to get TOY just because they have the money and sponsors to cook more than someone else.

 

[PimpSmoke]

I think everyone here needs to look at WHY we are here and remember it. I haven't seen a post by Phil and if anyone should have an opinion it's Mary. KCBS has problems..well, whats new? That's probably why some of us choose not to join. Cook with your buds, get together and pay the entry fees and have a good time? Maybe get a trophy? That's whats it's about right? Being recognized for your cooking by your peers? Oh that's right most CBJ's have never cooked a contest ......sorry. I guess I'll take my old dog opinion and shove it in my ass. But, I will say that the current KCBS situation has little to do with the Brethren.......at least what I know of the Brethren. Cook with your Brothers and enjoy yourself........anything else is masturbation.

 

[Jeff_in_KC]

Damn pimp, you have a way with words! LOL!

 

[PimpSmoke]

It was a bit rash. I'm not downing the discussion by any means, it's a necessary one. I just have a picture in my head of some of you sitting at your keyboards grinding your teeth in frustration. So, if the current BOD doesn't get ya what ya want, vote them out. But don't get so pissed in the meantime. This stuff takes time and doesn't happen overnight. Corporatization of anything is bad, I'll agree. Sorry for going off half smoked.

 

[monty3777]

Cook with your Brothers and enjoy yourself........anything else is masturbation.

Wait a second. So it's masturbate or do it with my brothers? Where I come from we got words for that

 

[nthole]

We cooked one contest last year because of a bunch of date conflicts. We came in 3444. That means at least a THOUSAND teams that are on the list likely only cooked 1 contest.

Now I'm not saying that we deserve to be in the running or ToY. But to say that maybe two teams only cooked one contest is crazy. A quarter of the list only cooked one contest.

I agree that those that cook maybe 5 or more should be eligible. The way I see it, the only fair way to do it is to take all your points and divide it by the number of contests attended. Best average score wins. But I am ok with setting some sort of minimum threshold for eligible entries. However, I think 10 is too high. Personally I'd say take teams that have cooked 6+ contests, and then take their best 5 scores and take the average of those 5. You cook more, your average will likely increase, and you don't get hurt by a set of bad judges at the odd contest. You cook six, then your top 5 count.

 

[nthole]

We cooked one contest this year, it was a first time contest, that charged (or at least listed the charge on the entry form) the Non-KCBS fee. So that information did not get dispersed to all organizers.

The Washington Missouri contest this year states on the entry form that you MUST be KCBS registered to compete.

 

[Double D's BBQ]

I think if you're going to restrict the Team of the Year Award to those that cook 20, 30, or 40 contests a year then you ought to count all the contest. Championship cooks do not need 20-30 Mulligans a year!

 

[nthole]

I think if you're going to restrict the Team of the Year Award to those that cook 20, 30, or 40 contests a year then you ought to count all the contest. Championship cooks do not need 20-30 Mulligans a year!

Then throw out the one lowest score for everyone and then divide by contests competed in, starting from a threshold of 6 contests.

Editted to add:
The best way to test something like this is to take the past couple years of competitions and run the numbers in a simulation and see what effect it has on the complete placing list. You don't want to see teams necessarily move 400 or 500 places, but if the overall movement is that no one really goes up or down more than 50 places, then I would say it might be more fair. Course, that viewpoint is all going to depend on which way you move! You will NEVER make everyone happy with a change because someone is always going to move down and they won't like that.

 

[Podge]

This is an interesting topic. "Change.....weather you like it or not"... it's been a year, nothing has changed except how TOY is figured. Same bickering, same closed door BOD meetings, and same whining on how KCBS does things.. This is not change, it's more of the same.

One thing I'm glad that's not changed is that I still have contests to go to this year, and they are getting closer and closer to my house, still get to see my freinds, and still get a chance to compete and win money to pay for this hobby... I hope that never changes.

It's just BBQ folks.

 

[Double D's BBQ]

I'm happy with BBQ too Podge and hope constructive criticism or suggestions for improvement is not considered whining. I don't think it is. I certainly have no hope of ever being team of the year and it certainly doesn't stop me from competing.

Bottom line there is no perfect system but I think there are better systems and I for one like to kick around ideas (maybe I should be a promotor instead of a competitor). Who knows one just might take off. I still like the idea, I just wish Chris Lilly was posting here (maybe I'll email him). The idead would be to use something like we currently have (i.e. Chris's BBQ Championship Series program that is currently undergoing some revamping) and use it to determine a true national BBQ championship, it doesn't even have to be KCBS. Take the top 32 or sixty four teams in the country and run it like the NCAA tournament (as determined by counting all contests - No Mulligans). I guarantee you that in the top 64 teams there'll be a Cinderella team or two which will make it very exciting. Designate brackets, geographic regions, seeding all that good stuff. Lets have a series of head to head competitions with an eventual National Championship showdown between the top 2 pros in the country. Will people still argue? Sure maybe those ranked 65 and below (we could even accommodate a cook in (between team #64 and #65 to be held in Dayton Ohio in the parking lot of UD Arena, just like the current tournament). Lots of excitement and money would be generated by such an event and it would open up the world of compeition BBQ to a lot of people. I know a lot of people will scoff at this but I'm old enough to remember when the NCAA tournament was only like 24 teams and the finals were held on Saturday afternoon on ABC Wild World of Sports. I guess what I'm saying is this doesn't have to be done overnight. College Basketball was big then but expanding the field made it bigger and the tournament a national event. Sweet Sixteen, Elite Eight, Final Four, and the National BBQ Championship. We could have even have bands (playing Go Team Go) and cheerleaders and fans taunting cooks with balloons as the prepare their entry for turn in. I get excited just thinking about it! What do you think?

 

[nthole]

Kind of expensive though. That means 6 rounds of contests for the teams that do make the tournament. With travel and meat costs that's a couple extra thousand $ if you are "invited", plus you have to accomodate specific dates.

But I do like the idea of a "playoff". Wonder if you could somehow get sponsors that could at least alleviate some of the teams additional costs.

 

[Double D's BBQ]

It would be definitely expensive but if you do it through a televison program on cable I think you could get the money to fund it. Get big buck sponsors like Weber, Kingsford, and all the beer companies. You could even have product placements like the clonesickles. It could be done. Just have to talk to the right people. I'm going to send an email to Chris Lilly and John Markus and see if there might be an intrest. John is a big time Emmy Award winning TV Producer who is a BBQ competitor and produced such hits as The Cosby Show, The Larry Sanders Show, The All Star Barbecue Showdown, and Barbecue Championship Series. I would like to see certified judges though, no French Chefs throwing lobsters at the audience.:shock::-D

 

[lunchlady]

let us know what he says...

 

[lunchlady]

(disclaimer -Firstly.. CONGRATS TO THE TOY WINNERS!
This is not meant to take away what they have done.)

well, after a year I'm not seeing that much change either.

The ToY was revamped to reward teams that cook MANY KCBS events per year.
Not 5.
Doesn't anyone else remember - this is the same speech which included "wouldn't you like BBQ to become like NASCAR" ????

ToY is rewarding the exact teams that KCBS WANTS to reward... period.

For example... not to talk about us, BUT I'm gonna...

last year we did either 10 or 12 KCBS contests, they only used five, ended up 20th in KCBS ToY overall. AMAZING for a NorthEast team.

THIS YEAR we signed up for ten, two were cancelled, and we only got 8 in... better finishes this year in all 8 though. We ended up 134th, or so depending on the day you look.
We are never EVER gonna be able to get that close again with the new criteria. There just aren't the amount of contests, or the amount of teams in this part of the country. And we don't even stay here.. we travel pretty far out.

So, do I think much has changed... not really.

Do I think they changed what they wanted to? yes.

Jeff, thanks for resurrecting this thread... I LOVE doom and gloom in the winter.

 

[Jeff_in_KC]

(disclaimer -Firstly.. CONGRATS TO THE TOY WINNERS!
This is not meant to take away what they have done.)

well, after a year I'm not seeing that much change either.

The ToY was revamped to reward teams that cook MANY KCBS events per year.
Not 5.
Doesn't anyone else remember - this is the same speech which included "wouldn't you like BBQ to become like NASCAR" ????

ToY is rewarding the exact teams that KCBS WANTS to reward... period.

For example... not to talk about us, BUT I'm gonna...

last year we did either 10 or 12 KCBS contests, they only used five, ended up 20th in KCBS ToY overall. AMAZING for a NorthEast team.

THIS YEAR we signed up for ten, two were cancelled, and we only got 8 in... better finishes this year in all 8 though. We ended up 134th, or so depending on the day you look.
We are never EVER gonna be able to get that close again with the new criteria. There just aren't the amount of contests, or the amount of teams in this part of the country. And we don't even stay here.. we travel pretty far out.

So, do I think much has changed... not really.

Do I think they changed what they wanted to? yes.

Jeff, thanks for resurrecting this thread... I LOVE doom and gloom in the winter.

Ahh but hope springs eternal... that's why they call it the Spring! :lol: Winter's doom and gloom blossoms into "what was that we were worried about last winter?" :wink:

 

[Bastey Boy]

I LOVE doom and gloom in the winter.

Smells like...napalm!