What happens when you miss (or skip) a turn-in?

[tduffy]

At my last contest, in Whiting Iowa this past weekend. There were only 25 teams and a real struggle for that. During the cooks meeting the reps said be sure and make all turn ins, even if funnel cake instead of brisket, otherwise if a turn in is missed it would no longer be considered a 25 team contest. But as long as all turn ins were made even if DQed it would be a qualifier. Ed that was Ron that said that.

I think my brisket would have scored better in whiting if i would have used funnel cake instead.

 

[Fat Freddy]

I think my brisket would have scored better in whiting if i would have used funnel cake instead.

That makes 2 of us. I think the judges thought my brisket and pork musta been something other than briskie or pork. And to think I was proud of the briskie I turned in :doh:

 

[bbq.tom]

Someone dumps raw/burnt chicken in a box for brisket and turns it in. Guess what...that brisket table probably just became the table of death.

Here have this brisket and score it fairly, I know we just waved a piece of raw chicken in front of you, sure that wont influence your score.

The point is could a box that is not prepared to competition standards hurt the scores of other entries? You can provide anecdotal evidence that it didnt, but you can't say that it couldn't. Given that I think that reps should err on the side of protecting the entries that are a teams best effort.

PLEASE explain to me why you think that a box of raw/burnt chicken would hurt the scoring for brisket by judges when the box won't even be seen by more than the first couple judges, and then it is taken to the team that turned it in. I'm failinig to see the logic behind your statement.

 

[Fat Freddy]

Tom, I took it to mean that obviously that score would be a 1,1,1, and if you landed on that table with a normal low scoring judge then this becomes the TOD for brisket because of a 1,1,1, and another low score. I dont mean to speak for anyone but that is how I took what was said by DawgPhan in your first quote.

 

[DawgPhan]

PLEASE explain to me why you think that a box of raw/burnt chicken would hurt the scoring for brisket by judges when the box won't even be seen by more than the first couple judges, and then it is taken to the team that turned it in. I'm failing to see the logic behind your statement.

You can discuss the infinite ways that a team could prepare a box and if each specific case would result in any impact to another teams score with someone else.

What you can't say is that a box prepared to standards below competition standards would never impact another team's score.

Every box should be a team's best effort. If that box is not up to their standard, then it should not be turned in because it could possibly impact the scoring for another team. Reps should never encourage a team to turn in something that is below standard just so they have X number of boxes in each category.

The obvious example would be a box to heavily seasoned with a strong spice like cayenne pepper. If I turn in a box of ribs that are extremely spicy, it could impact the scores of other teams at that table. Or a meat that was overly smokey with creosote so that when you took a bite it makes your tongue numb and you cant taste. It isnt easily washed out and definitely lingers on your palate. Any boxes on that table could be dinged 1 point by 1 judge. We all know that 1 taste point from 1 judge is often the difference between getting called and not. Or winning and not.

This is also a great example of how we dont have enough data to support a table of death type of scenario. 5 great teams end up on a table with a new team. That team turns in a jerk chicken that is so spicy and smokey that it destroys the palate of all judges. That table now became a TOD because of the food on that table's ability to impact the judges and not because of a predetermined bias on the part of the judges.

Again, teams can, will, and have done crazy things to boxes when they dont care about the outcome.

 

[gettinbasted]

Come on man, seriously? If it isn't your best stuff you shouldn't turn it in? If a pitcher doesn't have his best stuff should he just walk off the mound?

Case in point. Last weekend I knew my brisket wasn't up to snuff, but I still turned it in because you can't win if you don't try. My brisket got rightly killed, but I still had a good overall finish. Not turning it in = DAL. I could care less what my crappy brisket did to the judges pallet.

 

[DawgPhan]

Come on man, seriously? If it isn't your best stuff you shouldn't turn it in? If a pitcher doesn't have his best stuff should he just walk off the mound?

Case in point. Last weekend I knew my brisket wasn't up to snuff, but I still turned it in because you can't win if you don't try. My brisket got rightly killed, but I still had a good overall finish. Not turning it in = DAL. I could care less what my crappy brisket did to the judges pallet.

where to draw the line is up to the individual. We all have turned in food that we didnt think was our best and even got calls with it. That isnt what I am referring to.

 

[timzcardz]

Come on man, seriously? If it isn't your best stuff you shouldn't turn it in? If a pitcher doesn't have his best stuff should he just walk off the mound?

Case in point. Last weekend I knew my brisket wasn't up to snuff, but I still turned it in because you can't win if you don't try. My brisket got rightly killed, but I still had a good overall finish. Not turning it in = DAL. I could care less what my crappy brisket did to the judges pallet.

I'm sitting here LMFAO right now!

Just over a week ago, I was so disgusted with all four entries that we turned in that I didn't even go to the awards. I sent my brother by himself while I finished packing up the trailer.

Before my brother gets back I'm saying goodbye to a neighbor competitor, and while walking away he says "Oh, and good going with your first place chicken."

Dumbfounded I ask, "What did you just say?"

He responded, "Oh, sorry, I didn't realize that you didn't know. You took first place in chicken."

Then I saw my brother walking towards me with the trophy.

Obviously I still have absolutely no idea what good BBQ is!
:shocked:

 

[bbq.tom]

What you can't say is that a box prepared to standards below competition standards would never impact another team's score.

DawgPhan - I totally agree with your examples of spicy/creosote/jerk etc., resulting in possibly effecting the scores of the boxes following by the judges. I just couldn't wrap my head around the example you initially used "raw/burnt chicken" for brisket turn-in. I never said that it "couldn't", but just didn't understand where you were coming from in your initial example.

One thing that I found interesting when I became a Southern BBQ Network CBJ and judged my first SBN contest, is that they use "Dove Dark Chocolate" pieces to dissipate the heat between entries in a category if a team turns in something extremely spicy. It truly does the job (and is a pleasant "between categories" refreshment!).

 

[pahutchens]

As a Judge I'm vacillating between amused and offended.
I've had the 'place holder box' that was preventing a DQ. I posted about it a few years back.
Really though, has the respect for judges as an integral part of the competition dropped so low to imply that they would lack complete and total integrity and allow one lame box to screw all of the successive entries. :crazy:

 

[Gowan]

If you have cooked meat, always turn it in, no matter what you think of it.

I'm reminded of that year in Winchester when a guy was so disgusted with his brisket, he threw it in the trash. He took a couple steps away and then changed his mind. He scooped it out, whacked it a few times with a cleaver and tossed it in the box.

.
.
.


That entry took first place.

 

[Rookie'48]

Guess what...that brisket table probably just became the table of death.

Why would having a DQ at a table cause it to become a TOD? I can still imagine a 180 coming off of that table just as well as any other score.

 

[Porcine Perfection]

As a Judge I'm vacillating between amused and offended.
I've had the 'place holder box' that was preventing a DQ. I posted about it a few years back.
Really though, has the respect for judges as an integral part of the competition dropped so low to imply that they would lack complete and total integrity and allow one lame box to screw all of the successive entries. :crazy:

In this forum, yes it has. :sad:

 

[Rookie'48]

The obvious example would be a box to heavily seasoned with a strong spice like cayenne pepper. If I turn in a box of ribs that are extremely spicy, it could impact the scores of other teams at that table.

That table now became a TOD because of the food on that table's ability to impact the judges and not because of a predetermined bias on the part of the judges.

I actually had a chicken entry (# 4 on my plate) that was loaded up with chili powder, of all things! :doh: It burned my mouth so bad that I was still on fire after eating crackers and even the parsley. It burned so bad that I couldn't really taste the remaining two chicken entries - what, oh what, should I do?:help:

I gave boxes # 5 & # 6 NINES on taste and three other judges said that they did, also. :bow:

 

[DawgPhan]

I actually had a chicken entry (# 4 on my plate) that was loaded up with chili powder, of all things! :doh: It burned my mouth so bad that I was still on fire after eating crackers and even the parsley. It burned so bad that I couldn't really taste the remaining two chicken entries - what, oh what, should I do?:help:

I gave boxes # 5 & # 6 NINES on taste and three other judges said that they did, also. :bow:

was that the score that those chicken entries deserved?

 

[DUBBAGA]

was the score that those chicken entries deserved?

How could it be, as Dave already said that he couldn't taste the remaining 2 entries. As a result, the 4 judges at his table that gave 9's in taste for #5 and #6 potentially skewed the overall results (as a TOA vs TOD).

Being on the BOD, I wonder if Dave has submitted any proposals to the rules committee about how this situation should be handled more appropriately? I would think that it would be more appropriate to ask your TC/Reps to bring in other judges with an "undamaged" palate to fairly score the following pieces

 

[Gowan]

I actually had a chicken entry (# 4 on my plate) that was loaded up with chili powder, of all things! :doh: It burned my mouth so bad that I was still on fire after eating crackers and even the parsley. It burned so bad that I couldn't really taste the remaining two chicken entries - what, oh what, should I do?:help:

Assuming (dangerous I know) there isn't exaggeration here...

If I were to encounter a situation where I truly felt I could not continue to judge I would ask to be replaced. The cause doesn't really matter, be it sickness, family emergency or a severe reaction to a sample - if you cannot be an effective judge you ought to step out and let someone else fill in for you.