Can your traditional flow beat up my RF in a cage match?

[MOTU]

I’ve been smoking on my Lang 36 for over 8 years and am ready for a capacity upgrade. The Lang produces unreal results with the help of countless hours of You Tube, This Site, other resources, and an OCD personality. The two top choices at the moment are a Lang 84 Deluxe with SS grates, all three available damper adjusters, and about 6 other options and add-ons (@ $10K) or a 500-gallon Primitive Pit with every option available checked off on the list (@ $13K).

This list of pros and cons of each is purely spontaneous from the top of my head and is factually debatable hence the reason for this post to get YOUR opinion.

Lang pros
1. I’m seasoned in the cooking and various behavioral characteristics of the Lang design.
2. Cooking time is quicker due to the elevated levels of radiant heat coming from the baffle.
3. Warmer Box limits the need for a separate Cambro or similar food holding equipment.
4. The expanded metal shelving on both sides is a convenient work, stage area.
5. Uses less wood and smaller splits.
6. Usage of all of the cooking area real estate is available due to the protective characteristics of the baffle and the resulting even cooking temps across the grates. I estimate that the total cooking area may approach the total usable cooking area of a 500 gallon traditional flow as a result.
7. Rendering fat keeps the chamber moist and adds flavor.
8. Less Pricey than the Primitive Pit
9. Easy to clean
10. Gull Wing door access is convenient and looks bad ass.

Lang Cons

1. Pales in comparison to a traditional flow in terms of convection cooking. The Lang is more of a 50% convection/50% Radiant cooking tool. Higher convection cooking produces a better tasting smoked product?
2. Fire box is tiny compared to these Franklin Style giant propane tank units coming out. Advantages are unknown but the giant fireboxes look cool as hell and you can use a shovel on the coals like a coal worker on the Titanic.
3. Inferior Smokestack exit design compared to the collector type exhaust at mid-level with the Primitive Pit. This causes the heat on the Lang to quicky race to the top of the chamber and exit the stack where the meat on the bottom grate loses much of that convection energy (Flavor).
4. Aesthetics: Welds work but have been hit by ye ole ugly stick too many times.

Primitive Pit Pros

1. Superior convection design produces slightly “different” final product. Better? My thoughts are convection heat with its smoke and chemicals adds the flavor NOT radiant heat.
2. Better dual axle trailer
3. Coolness factor
4. Total usable capacity may be more than the Lang
5. Hot zone near the firebox means Chicken can cook at the same time as Brisket etc. Lang can do this too but you have to crank up the heat to crisp skin which risk over-temping other meats on the cooker.
6. If its not “Better” than the Lang than why are all the best restaurants in the country not using Langs but are using this Franklin Central Texas type design cooker.
7. I can drink beer and tell people I’m cooking on a PP and laugh at my own adolescent mentality.

Primitive Pit Cons

1. Pricier
2. Longer cook times
3. No shelving in front of doors
4. No warming box
5. Uses more wood
6. Learning Curve

Lead Times on the Langs are currently 6 Months +. Primitive leads times are unknown at the moment.

Please help me decide and let me know why you would choose one over the other. I plan on doing much larger cooks than back yard and need the capacity which I believe either one will do the trick for the intended volume, but I want the one that can give me a superior product. The Lang has been amazing, and I can’t even imagine how it can get better but again all of the most legendary pit masters are NOT using reverse flows as far as I can tell. Leaning towards the Lang now.

 

[Fishwater2002]

I'm not even close to your situation but as I've been researching pits to purchase for my own backyard model I went right past reverse flow cookers & only look at traditional flow. While I don't really have any experience to guide me the thought of radiant heat from the reverse flow with a lack of possible convection steered me away. I really feel that is because I already have bottom style cookers with less air flow, ie Kamado & pellet grill, I want the air flow & top down cooking from a traditional "Texas" style offset.

As a side note most if not all of the available offsets that I find in New England for sale are in fact reverse flows, also of note a lot of the local BBQ joints up here have a reverse flow in the parking lot FWI.

 

[Back9Q]

I will say I have cooked a lot on 3 style of offset and all have pros and cons. They have been smaller versions of what you are looking for but imagine pros/cons be same as you scale up

RF. Great for even temps but air flow and exhaust designs are typically not the best. Cleanup is easier as you can remove baffle plate and power wash scrape etc

Traditional offset (fb/cc opening at bottom) hot spot at FB side offers two zone cooking. Temp difference across grate can be 50f+. Potential for flareups if dont keep clean

Modern offset (fb/cc) opening at grate level. Even temps across grate. Maximum airflow convection cooking. Harder clean as you have dig all gunk out of CC

To offer my $.02 if I were looking to spend $10k on an offset it would be a modern design as air flow much better IMO. Cooks faster and maximize grate with even temps. Jambo and Outlaw are pits come to mind. Dont know Jambo prices but Outlaw you can get a 30”x120” BFO in open cart for $13k

They also have 30x60 models on trailers for around $10k. May be worth checking out. Built in Indiana


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SonVolt]

All theory aside, I haven't noticed much flavor difference between my Shirley RF and my in-laws 300gal traditional flow offset. It takes so long (hours) for the Shirley's 3/8" baffle plate to come up to temp that I don't feel the radiant heat hurts it in any significant way. I do like the sizzle of dropping fat towards the end of the cook though. While I haven't tried it yet, you can vent out the Shirley's warmer which exits at the lower grate level, which should help with food on the bottom not being exposed to enough smoke.

 

[shares]

I prefer to use different heat zones to my advantage, so if I were to go with an offset it would be traditional instead of RF or tuning plates. But an experienced BBQer can produce a fine product on any pit, so it's just preference.

 

[BBQ_MAFIA]

an experienced BBQer can produce a fine product on any pit, so it's just preference.

I agree with the above statement.
I believe, if you know your pit and you can control the fire you can turn out a good product regardless of the cooker you are using. The kicker is, to really know your pit it takes time and a lot of practice.

Moving from a Lang 36 to a Lange 84 or a Direct Flow 500 Gallon tank cooker is a big move. You may want ask yourself if a big cooker like these is right for you. The Lang 84 is big and a 500 Gallon cooker is enormous. There is no doubt that the big cookers are fun but will you really be cooking that much food on a regular basis. There is certainly a bid difference between a want and a need. I totally get that a "Want" can often times totally over rule a need. I only bring it up as its big investment.

I have a Lang 84 DLX, a Lang 60, a Large Klose Grill Chef, and a Large Spicewine, not to mention all the smaller pits.
Since the Covid thing happened catering for events dropped off a lot so the big cookers do not get used as much as the use to. For me, its doesn't make sense to fire up the 84 for a few racks of ribs.

Unless you are catering, I think the Lang 60 is actually the perfect size.
It's not crazy big and this is the one that I use for a smaller cook of 4 or 5 racks. It's also big enough do hold a lot more meat if needed.

I just thought I would throw that out there for you as I'm not one of guys who believes in buying the biggest pit you can afford.
You may want to see if there is someone in your area that has a big pit and is willing to let you hang out during a cook so you can get first hand experience and be completely comfortable with your decision.

Good luck with whatever you decided on buying.

 

[Happy Hapgood]

Sounds like a good idea for a Throwdown. :becky:

 

[gtsum]

If you need that big of a pit, I would go with primitive without a doubt. I have a workhorse 1975 (sister company to primitive) and the flow is amazing and the large firebox is so easy to use (I use a full size shovel). I agree with above. There is a huge jump from a Lang 36 to a primitive 500 or Lang 84…that’s a lot of real estate!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[SmokeOCD]

Paying hobby - or truly a business? Profits will come faster with the Lang and all the benefits you already listed. You're up $3k before your first cook and you've got the warming box and shelf. If it's not about profit so much - If you're bored, want to try something new, think it will taste better - don't spend the next 10 years cooking on a Lang and wishing you had a really big PP.

 

[Connor_Macleod]

Great OP! Whatever you decide, I feel like I learned something from this discussion.

 

[MOTU]

Thanks for the feedback all! Lots of good information and definitely pros and cons for each one. The larger smoker is to hang out at my friends bar in the Orlando area and cook for the guests anywhere from 50 to 200 + people. Likely at cost or for charity and for fun not for profit. Cost is really no issue and with eight years of offset experience I’m hoping the learning curve will be minimal and fun. May end up tossing a coin for this one!

 

[gtsum]

Thanks for the feedback all! Lots of good information and definitely pros and cons for each one. The larger smoker is to hang out at my friends bar in the Orlando area and cook for the guests anywhere from 50 to 200 + people. Likely at cost or for charity and for fun not for profit. Cost is really no issue and with eight years of offset experience I’m hoping the learning curve will be minimal and fun. May end up tossing a coin for this one!

Money really not an issue, then Without a doubt the primitive pit 500 - hanging at a bar with a commercial 500g pit where u can fit what…35-40 briskets?? Sign me up and take my money!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro